UKC Forums - Have to have all grand ped to make coondog

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UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- Blueticks: Stud Dog and Kennel Promotion (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=56)
-- Have to have all grand ped to make coondog (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928526840)

Posted by wakenda creek b on 02-04-2020 11:49 PM:

Re: Re: Re: NITECH GRCH Ratliff's Boomin Rivers htx2

quote:
Originally posted by Vic Stoll
Ritchie, you just said a mouthful right there!

I’ll admit I don’t get out much and have a more sheltered point of view, but the ones not affected by what’s going on around them sure don’t seem to
be out there in bunches. Finding one that’s not affected, but also able to reproduce it is even more rare.

Seem to be plenty out there that are regular coon treer’s by themselves, but for whatever reason prefer to pack up when hunted with company and subject to do more negative things than when being hunted alone.

I’ve noticed with mine some will look better and really shine in competition and some will look like a different dog in competition. Most of mine will be more independent in competition.

__________________
Brian Davis
Carrollton,Mo.64633
1(660)542-0932

Posted by BluBritches on 02-05-2020 12:17 AM:

Hard balance

It's great to have hounds that seem to know when you want to just go out for fun and when it's time to hit that extra gear
Imo that's a great trait to have and possibly hard to find then the independent blues

Posted by steeb_63 on 02-05-2020 01:39 PM:

All I can say is still the same ole same ole!!!! I think I will stay in my corner and let someone else argue the points. But bottom line is we bluetick people will not work together unless its a benefit to us!!! call it what it is but its a fact just look at the bickering back stabbing ignorance that gets spoken behind ones back!! And yes we are all GUILTY. lets here from a stud dog owner that hasn't bashed another and bred to a different stud dog other than their own?
JMO btw

__________________
GRNITECH GRCH PKC SCH STEBERS MIGHTY LONESOME II
HIGH SCORING BLUETICK BLK & TAN DAYS 2016, 2017 and 2018
TOP 9 2017 FALL SUPERSTAKES
2018 2ND PLACE BREED WINNER PKC
2019 ILLINOIS STATE CHAMPION
2019 AUTUMN OAKS GRAND 16
2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATL GRNITECH OF BREED
2019 ZONE 3 HIGH SCORING DOG
2019 WORLD CH TOP 100
2019 PURINA NATIONALS BREED WINNER.
2019 FALL ROUND UP KING OF THE HUNT.
2019 ERCHA PKC PRO HUNT TOP 4
2020 WINTER CLASSIC SAT. 4TH PLACE CHAMPION DIVISION
2020 WORLD QUALIIFIED
2020 NATIONAL BLUETICK DAYS INVITATIONAL HUNT WINNER
2020 NATIONAL BLUETICK DAYS DOUBLE CAST WINNER 3RD PLACE GRNITECH FRI AND 4TH PLACE GRNITECH SAT
2020 Natl english days high scoring dog overall fri 1rst place grnitech sat 3rd place grnitech.
2021 invitational hunt winner
2021 natl bluetick days 9th place RQE winner
T0C Top 64 winner

ALSO HOME OF
PR Stebers Lil Blue Krayzee[dual grand penny x grnitech krypt]
nitech Stebers Big Ole Slick
NITECH STEBERS MIGHTY LONESOME 3 AKA CASH[7 wins towards grnitech
Stebers Mighty Blue Bell
Stebers 5 Gen
Stebers Pure Country
Stebers Shining Diamond
Stebers Lonesome Sue
Stebers Mighty Blue Patsy
Stebers Ole Blue Betty
Stebers Lil Blue Krayzee II
AND SEVERAL YOUNG ONES IN THE MIX

Posted by nextcoonhunters on 02-05-2020 02:33 PM:

I have

Thought long and hard and I have " bashed" 3 stud dogs. If you consider telling a truth about a stud bashing him. 1 has a problem on the tree when you go to get him. 1 has a problem with other male dogs ( multiple times) the last I said they bred him to some PR dogs. Other than that can't remember ever saying something bad about a stud. I do my best not to go on what other people say but only stamp it when I have first hand experience on the matter. Good or bad, male or female. Sometimes like the last one you can research and find out stuff. Hunted with a stud dog one night. Made the trip to go took him and Rivers both looked stupid. The guy got worried I was going to talk bad about his stud. I had to tell him I knew what Rivers could do and I love her. Bottom line just a bad night. No way would I judge a dog on one night, to that extent. Dog went good, good mouth, looked good in those aspects. Would love to go again sometime with him. And no unless directly asked If I've hunted with him I don't bring it up. And when I do I start with yeah both looked bad that night.

Other studs than BJ we've bred to
Utchmans Eddie
Harper's Gambler
Pine Creek Screwy Lewey
I bred a female to Speck BJ's bother also
And right now I'm looking for a stud other than BJ to bred Rivers to.

Everyone has to do what they feel is best. I'm looking to produce what I want. And if someone else wants that kind of hound come along.

Posted by pamjohnson on 02-05-2020 02:42 PM:

It really is just about a person's standards. If ya want and perfer titels that is what your going to have. No different than a bawl mouth on track. If your standards are bawl mouth and nothing else that's what you'll have.
Personal standards that's it like it or not.

Posted by ov_blues on 02-05-2020 04:43 PM:

John Vaught asked a question on the forums years ago that really got me to thinking. His question was something like this, if put into one bluetick are the traits available in the bluetick breed (again if the best of the traits that blue dogs possess were put into one dog) would that dog be able to compete with the best of the best from other breeds, mainly Walker dogs. I thought about it and my answer to that question was Yes, they are all there. Drive, independence, athletic ability, nose, tracking ability, locating ability, accuracy, etc. Obviously Big Country has proven, and I'm not saying that he possesses all of those traits, that a blue dog can be bred that possesses enough of those traits to win against the best of the best in other breeds. He has proven that owners of other breeds see enough in him that they are even breeding some of their top females to him. Now I'm not tooting Big Country's horn other than to say the proof is in the pudding. Is he all Grand, no, but he has dogs in his pedigree that have proven that they also can compete with the best of the best from other breeds. What I determined from John Vaught's question was that the traits are there but how Bluetick guys breed dogs verses how Walker guys breed their dogs is the big difference in how they have advanced and stayed on top. Get a PKC Prohound and study the pedigree of the Walker dogs that have won over and over again and you can pick up on the fact that the vast majority of them have multiple top stud dogs and females from various lines of Walkers bred into them. They are constantly looking to breed traits from other lines into their mix to improve the dog that they are hunting. They know what lines are dominate in one area and when they need to improve what they are hunting they go to the line of dogs that will add what is lacking in the dog they own. PR dogs can reproduce some really nice coon catchers but are they going to possess the traits that it takes to win in the big hunts is the real question. And for the record, I've bred PR dogs, titled dogs, and tried for the most part in the last few years to breed dogs that have as many dogs in their pedigree that have won on national levels as I possibly can. Its still a work in progress, even after 50 years, to produce dogs of the level that can compete with anything even though I am a pleasure hunter at heart now.

__________________
John Smith
Ohio Valley Bluetick Kennel

Posted by BluBritches on 02-05-2020 06:41 PM:

Big country

I have not hunted with him personally
I'm sure it's not all hype he gets talked about by hound hunters everywhere so there must be plenty there to go on I hate using a specific dog as an example and mean no disrespect in any way

Not looking to start a heated debate on this one but what's your honest opinion

Is big country MORE likely to produce "big name winners" than his littermates
Males and females and if so WHY

Posted by wakenda creek b on 02-05-2020 09:47 PM:

I drew Big Country in Iowa. He was tough, get deep and by himself. It was a fun cast

__________________
Brian Davis
Carrollton,Mo.64633
1(660)542-0932

Posted by ov_blues on 02-05-2020 09:49 PM:

Re: Big country

quote:
Originally posted by BluBritches
I have not hunted with him personally
I'm sure it's not all hype he gets talked about by hound hunters everywhere so there must be plenty there to go on I hate using a specific dog as an example and mean no disrespect in any way

Not looking to start a heated debate on this one but what's your honest opinion

Is big country MORE likely to produce "big name winners" than his littermates
Males and females and if so WHY

I'm not promoting Big Country per se, but using him as an example that there are blue dogs born that have the traits to compete with the other breeds. Obviously any of them have to be handled correctly and promoted but he has proved the tools are there in a blue hide. There could be others out there that have been born but either not handled, aka trained, right or not been exposed to the hunts. I do believe that if a dog has the right tools, and are discovered by the right person, they will eventually be exposed to the hunts because there are enough people out there with enough money to get something bought.

Now as far as breeding, these are my thoughts. I've been around blue dogs and breeding blue dogs for as long as I can remember and I'm almost 55. My Dad bought his first blue dog in 1952 and I still have a dog that goes back to that female. At some points, when Dad was alive and we were both in it full swing, we had dogs that were ours thruout up to a 7 generation pedigree. Only some long term bluetick hunters knew my Dad or me but we bred our own dogs, went out and bred in what we, mostly Dad, felt we might need to improve our dogs, and yes most were PR dogs. Saying all of that to just say I've been there and done that and seen a few things over the years. Although years ago I felt I could compete with my best dogs against anything, when I took a break because of life situations when I got the chance to get back into hunting regularly I saw that things had changed and the style of dog it took to compete had changed. I realized that to catch back up would take too long internally as breeding dogs from papers only, even for a couple of generations, had not worked. I have always seen that breeding the best from the litters to the best of other litters, or to an outside stud, produced the best pups. The B side of the litter to the B side of another litter, even with the same genetics behind it, never matched up as well in the long run. Mainly, in my opinion, due to the fact that after breeding for years, knowing aunts, uncles, grandparents, littermates, etc, I could pinpoint who an individual pup reminded me of. If you get something bad bred in, it takes longer to breed it out than it did to get it in. So, can a littermate throw just as good of a pup as a better littermate, yes, but will the weaker littermate show up in offspring on down the road, yes, so sticking with the cream of the crop is the best option. Also, to think that a person in todays world can consistantly breed superior hounds without going outside ones back yard to get some genetic help somewhere else is a low percentage endeavor in my opinion. If the bluetick guys would continually strive to breed our best of the best together we would see dramatic improvements in the breed in a short amount of time. Put the winners like Piazon with the Echo/Bodacious/Bocephus/Big Country, Pounder, Boomer, maybe John Gill bred dogs as an example and we'd make some headway quick.

__________________
John Smith
Ohio Valley Bluetick Kennel

Posted by BluBritches on 02-05-2020 10:52 PM:

Thank you

I have some young opinions that have yet to be sought out
But I'm smart enough to know when the older guys say been there done that I should listen....... unfortunately I'm sometimes stubborn and foolish enough I have to make the same mistakes for myself lol
I truly appreciate your time in typing out a response and will carefully evaluate your thoughts on the matter

Posted by Hazel Hill Blueticks on 02-07-2020 07:45 AM:

For the love of God”Can’t we all just get along”. I’m sure in person every one of us could sit down and have coffee and not a fist would be thrown. I consider a few of you Friends here and to get worked up over hounds is plum ridiculous. But hey I will bite too. Any given night I could untie one from behind the barn, haul it to town and win. I personally have made crosses if the pups went to comp hunters mine would be on the reproducers as well.

I owned two littermate males of Atta Girl, Jr and Carl. Carl was the better hound of the two. More natural, hardest treeing hound I ever owned and accurate. I gave Jr to a young man, he stopped hunting and he sold him. Within a couple months he was titled. Old Carl has produced some fine hounds for us. Carl II is just as dominant in the woods, but we haven’t had a litter here in years.
They all would be Coon Dogs in any man’s eyes.
Talking about Atta Girl, her sire’s Dam was a Hazel Hill female. Her Sire was bred to a Hazel Hill female. Being a coon dog and reproducer is in the blood.
They all make coon dogs here, just some may have more style. Fellas keep em’ hot. Grandpa Carl would say “if you want a good dog I will find you one”.🤣

__________________
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Carl Wilcox original owner

Home of

Natural,Bawlmouth,Coldnose, Hardtreeing,Blueticks.
Hazel Hill Blueticks A Family Name since 1949.

PROUD MEMBERS OF TEAM COON DOG!

Brad & Alison (Wilcox) McGill
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Posted by nextcoonhunters on 02-07-2020 05:11 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hazel Hill Blueticks
For the love of God”Can’t we all just get along”. I’m sure in person every one of us could sit down and have coffee and not a fist would be thrown. ;

Only if everyone ordered their own coffee. With this bunch they may want to spend hours telling you how the coffee your drinking is going to cause coffee houses to close down and go out of business. Unless it's the same way they want theirs.

Posted by ov_blues on 02-07-2020 06:00 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by nextcoonhunters
Only if everyone ordered their own coffee. With this bunch they may want to spend hours telling you how the coffee your drinking is going to cause coffee houses to close down and go out of business. Unless it's the same way they want theirs.

Are you related to the late great John Vaught?

__________________
John Smith
Ohio Valley Bluetick Kennel

Posted by nextcoonhunters on 02-07-2020 07:02 PM:

Though faith

Are we not all brothers and sisters though faith? I believe anybody talking about a bluetick winning the world hunt must be walking in faith. "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Sure is something some folks hope for, but ain't been no evidence it can happen yet.
Was you related to John Vaught ?

Posted by ov_blues on 02-07-2020 07:28 PM:

I don't know if you were on here when John was alive but he loved to come on the forum and stir the bluetick guys up. He loved blueticks too but enjoyed getting a rise out of people. I called him one day after he had posted something and I found out he was a good guy and I enjoyed talking to him several times. He even brought a PR gyp up and bred to a Grand Night male that I had at the time. lol. She could tree those ole rough Kentucky coon so went ahead and let her get under my awesome stud dog. haha.

__________________
John Smith
Ohio Valley Bluetick Kennel

Posted by BluBritches on 02-07-2020 09:41 PM:

Perfect

quote:
Originally posted by ov_blues
I don't know if you were on here when John was alive but he loved to come on the forum and stir the bluetick guys up. He loved blueticks too but enjoyed getting a rise out of people. I called him one day after he had posted something and I found out he was a good guy and I enjoyed talking to him several times. He even brought a PR gyp up and bred to a Grand Night male that I had at the time. lol. She could tree those ole rough Kentucky coon so went ahead and let her get under my awesome stud dog. haha.

Sounds like a really good guy
I dont like drama but I do like differences in opinions
If you keep a semi open mind and RESEARCH facts and dismiss the fiction
Then we can all learn from each other and better our breeding program
After all at the end of the night the hunt is over but good breeding is our future

Posted by nextcoonhunters on 02-07-2020 10:02 PM:

Stirring the pot

If you don't stir the pot every so often things get stuck to it. Stirring the pot never hurt nothing and helps in keeping it from over boiling. Sometimes. Lol. Like a good biblical debate when you believe something to be solid truth. That's an awesome thing to build on. But if you believe it and have no proof or even an idea why you believe it, better reevaluate what you are building on. My uncle would tell us a story. In a situation like this. It started a man came home from work one day. His new bride was fixing him ham. He walked in the kitchen. And noticed she had cut both of the ends of the ham off. He asked why? She said that's what my mom always did. They call her mother and ask why? She replies that's what my mom always did. So they call Grandma and she replies the pan we cooked in wasn't big enough to hold a whole ham so I had to cut it down to fit.
I'll let that story sink in for awhile. But will say, wonder how many people are cutting away on things with no idea why?

Posted by Hazel Hill Blueticks on 02-09-2020 03:19 AM:

Great philosophers of the Bluetick breed.

All I can say is tree ol’Carl in there yonder right in that direction. John Smith, Carl was very similar to John Vaught’s Charlie dog. He was the real deal though.

Posted by Rcl on 03-01-2020 02:59 AM:

Agree The Great House's Lipper was out of a pr female named House's Queen Lou

Posted by Ridgerunner1988 on 09-26-2020 09:53 PM:

All 4 Final Cast In The 2020 World Not All Grand

Oh my goodness all 4 of the hounds in the final 4 of the world hunt "DO NOT" have an All Grand Pedigree, that's just unimaginable, lol. That just shows everyone that thinks an All Grand pedigree is what makes a coondog dont know squat about a coondog. The ability of the hound and bloodline is what matters titles dont mean squat besides someone took that dog to a few hunts. All titles are is pieces of paper, it doesnt have to be a coondog to be a titled dog. I've seen titled dogs that I dont believe could tree a coon on their own if it ran right over top of them...

__________________
Ridgerunner1988

Posted by nextcoonhunters on 09-26-2020 11:31 PM:

Lol

I would have replied quicker but have been laughing since a read your post. Thanks that just made my day.

Posted by coonbone on 10-01-2020 04:47 PM:

No matter the argument, i will pick ability over pretty every time.

Posted by trey melton on 10-03-2020 03:04 AM:

Coondoggin

Hit them added purse Pkc hunts if u wanna see what your packin u win 50-60% of your cast in a year u have yourself a coondog

__________________
Tm

Posted by Ridgerunner1988 on 10-03-2020 03:16 AM:

Alot of slick treeing goes on in pkc hunts I've witnessed it first hand but the same goes on in ukc also but you cant win with minus points in ukc and you can in pkc so that's the difference. Not saying all pkc dogs are slick treeing machines but I have seen a bunch first hand that are.

__________________
Ridgerunner1988

Posted by trey melton on 10-03-2020 05:15 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Ridgerunner1988
Alot of slick treeing goes on in pkc hunts I've witnessed it first hand but the same goes on in ukc also but you cant win with minus points in ukc and you can in pkc so that's the difference. Not saying all pkc dogs are slick treeing machines but I have seen a bunch first hand that are.

should be easy to win in them then. Come to Oklahoma enter up if u win 60% of your cast in my area I will double your money. There are exceptions to every hunt your right some are won on minus or circle points jus like ukc having dead cast where there is no winner but around here a high % are won with +

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