UKC Forums - Tree Count Down Rule

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- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- Tree Count Down Rule (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928515747)

Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-28-2019 03:56 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
..... that's the ones the young folks want if you don't give them what they want they won't show up that being said I liked the 80's format but I ain't paying the bills the young folks are.
Tar

The young folks want a Green New Deal also. They want to change the rules so that they get free college, free healthcare and are guaranteed a paycheck whether they actually work or not. Do you think that we should listen to the young folks or older experienced hunters? Maybe everyone would be better off if the young folks listened to us.

Posted by yadkintar on 02-28-2019 04:02 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
The young folks want a Green New Deal also. They want to change the rules so that they get free college, free healthcare and are guaranteed a paycheck whether they actually work or not. Do you think that we should listen to the young folks or older experienced hunters? Maybe everyone would be better off if the young folks listened to us.

They ain't going to listen because they don't have to they have other options that we didn't have. You don't give them the game they want they go where the game they want is. That being said ukc as a buisness needs those young folks revenue. Me and you don't have much longer to contribute.

Tarbaby

Posted by morgan branch on 02-28-2019 04:21 PM:

I love the thought of a 2 min and every one else gets 25 at a tree. It makes sense. ADD a no leash lock rule and you will create better coon dogs then.... If you only get 25 after the 2 why do you need a leash lock rule? This helps in 2 ways that will improve the hounds. !st it will penalize the late covering dog and it will also penalize the slick treeing idiot.." prob why it will never get voted in"Then the dogs that hunt coons not just a new area code cause they have been beat for being near another dog will slowly get back to being honest COONDOGS. If there is a coon you best find it and tree it.. Last thing, 1 min on the first dump for babbling.. All to tired of dogs leaving barking and every handler watching his stop watch and striking at 55 seconds.. This is the hardest rule to enforce... Rules say where no track is evident.. prove there is no track.... Therefore you have the babblers.. 100pts every time. just my 2 cents.... Still hunting and raising honest coondogs that can win.

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Posted by Pat Bizich on 02-28-2019 04:25 PM:

If anyone can get to read the article by Jim "WILDMAN" Meeks in American Cooner this month. He's been around a long time and is a smart guy when it comes to comp hunts.Says it all and I agree with it 100%.

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-28-2019 04:27 PM:

If you give them the game they want then they will soon either decide that wasn't really what they wanted and quit or lose interest and quit. That will just leave the older experienced hunters to hunt their game. Changing the rules is not going to change the outside influences that we can't really control. That other kennel club that has the rules that you are asking for is having the same numbers problems at the local level that UKC is having. If you want to change the rules, change them to reflect the growing loss of hunting area.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-28-2019 04:47 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by morgan branch
I love the thought of a 2 min and every one else gets 25 at a tree. It makes sense. ADD a no leash lock rule and you will create better coon dogs then.... If you only get 25 after the 2 why do you need a leash lock rule? This helps in 2 ways that will improve the hounds..........Then the dogs that hunt coons not just a new area code cause they have been beat for being near another dog will slowly get back to being honest COONDOGS.....

The tree countdown rule came from PKC. The deep and alone dogs came from PKC. Is that a coincidence? If a dog only gets 25 points for second tree, then he had better be deep and alone with a first. Is that a "better dog"? These rule changes are just like the New Green Deal. They sound great on paper until you figure out the cost.

Posted by morgan branch on 02-28-2019 04:57 PM:

Richard, It was a 2 part scenario. Eliminate the leash lock rule. I am just looking at ways to acclimate to the smaller tracts of hunting land and to improve the type of hounds we are breeding. The complaints of today are the nose and tracking ability has gone down.. The style of dogs that seem to be the popular thing now days is deep and alone that ambushed a coon not struck a track and drove the coon up a tree, but run across a coon and looked at it as they were going over to the next farm down the road. jmo

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Posted by yadkintar on 02-28-2019 05:41 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
The tree countdown rule came from PKC. The deep and alone dogs came from PKC. Is that a coincidence? If a dog only gets 25 points for second tree, then he had better be deep and alone with a first. Is that a "better dog"? These rule changes are just like the New Green Deal. They sound great on paper until you figure out the cost.

Richard ukc is now giving away money like $$$ kc's you are going to attract a different type competitor!!

Are we ready for that I know but we will see.

Tar

Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-28-2019 06:46 PM:

Tarbaby, you are one of the guys that pushed for this to appease your young friends. Will it turn out to be another example of the New Green Deal?

Posted by yadkintar on 02-28-2019 07:00 PM:

Richard when $$$ first started Jarvis spent a lot of time at our club in cleburn Texas ! These new rules if they pass will be no shock to me been using them for years it's not new to many of us. But like I said before I liked the 80's format maybe because I was young then and that's were a lot of memories were made. Here is were I am at (if) these changes are made as a moh I will have to accept them and abide by them and referee while everybody adjust to them. I hunt in all registrys when I am on a cast the most important thing I have learned is I know my dog. And I know in my mind what everybody's score on the cast is and where I am at and what I need to do to win. Sometimes I just get beat like everybody else and it wasn't the rules it was because me and my dog fell short of the mark.

Tar

Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-28-2019 07:04 PM:

Oh my goodness Tarbaby, I thought that you had turned in your MOH license?

Posted by yadkintar on 02-28-2019 07:09 PM:

You think to many things at one time Richard you make my head hurt.

Tarbaby

Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-28-2019 08:21 PM:

Tarbaby, my wife says that I make her head hurt also. Sometimes I even give myself a headache. My wife says that when I am pecking on my phone, sometimes she can see smoke coming out of my ears. I guess that it is my ADD.

Posted by yadkintar on 02-28-2019 09:04 PM:

I been studying on this a long time. You know no matter what we think or if we attend or don't this show will go on. And I realized it's not my show anymore. Although I love getting on here what I think really don't matter that much. There are people getting paid more to hunt dogs than I got paid a year for hard work. $7,500 for a weekend just for entry fees. I really don't know how you go about making people happy that are used to spending that kind of money. And that's who these young people look up to.

All I can say is God bless Allen and Todd I wouldn't take their job on a bet.

Tar

Posted by Billy George on 03-02-2019 04:09 AM:

You already get 50 more points for first tree,how much more do you guys wanting the rule changed need to win a cast? 100 point swing,after two minutes,you want to talk about low turn outs at hunts.....

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Posted by johnny reb on 03-02-2019 05:48 AM:

Billy George do you really think a dog coming into a tree after 2 minutes should receive 75 points? I don’t mind 1 to cover if ther on the same track but if it’s going to take him 2 minutes to do it he better not much less 4. If a dog trees 900 yards to the west and mines 800 to the east on a track he **** sure has no business breaking his neck going west to tree with that dog.

Posted by Billy George on 03-03-2019 02:50 AM:

Under current rules,the answer would be yes, if a dog covers 800 yards in your description Id say no. My point is if you drop to 25 after two,first tree has to drop to 100... jmo take it for what its worth....

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 03-03-2019 03:44 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Billy George
Under current rules,the answer would be yes, if a dog covers 800 yards in your description Id say no. My point is if you drop to 25 after two,first tree has to drop to 100... jmo take it for what its worth....

Jmo, the only people who would ever want it lowered to 100 are those with dishonest 1st strike dogs who me-too on trees very late when they never ran a track in or they would have been there sooner.
The dog that does the work and trees coons the fastest should be awarded. That is the purpose of a competition hunt.
Look at it this way... the dog treeing first always has the most to loose. 125 holds the dog accountable right, wrong or indifferent (plus, minus or circle). With tree points at 125 they may have the most to gain but also the most to loose if they are slick. The late dog didn't run the track as fast or maybe just covered, it is held accountable for it's actions but not to the extent of the first there.

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Posted by SFWALKER on 03-03-2019 04:03 AM:

The real question is, why in the heck is a dog given ANY points for covering 2 or 3 minutes late???? I would love to see the tree closed after 3 or even 2 minutes.

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Posted by Bob Hennessey on 03-03-2019 03:05 PM:

Count down tree rule change should really help the circle tree rule. Lot more minus tree points when one dog gets 125 and the dogs that back 2 min. later get 25. Lots of handlers would take 25 minus instead of 75. 2 dogs treed one has 125 the other has 25. 2 dogs still trailing . 3 votes minus I vote plus.
After 2 minutes only 25 pt. sounds good.

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Posted by Travis Brown on 03-03-2019 08:57 PM:

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Posted by Redneck Mafia on 03-03-2019 11:08 PM:

Surely to God we are smart enough to add up one number bigger than the other.
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Posted by yadkintar on 03-03-2019 11:16 PM:

I am mixed up lol !! But the tree countdown is to combat the babbling strike carrying dog that runs 800 yrds to cover and gets 75 tree at 4:59. When in reality the dog that struck honest at 25 on the coon in a completely different direction and treed it for 125 from getting beat.

25 strike 125 tree = 150

100 strike 75 tree = 175

The winner on that coon did nothing but get his mouth open quick and cover.

Tar

Posted by Travis Brown on 03-04-2019 03:01 AM:

My first post must have been poorly worded. Yes lower the strike points and the 50 point split from first to second tree is enough. At least half of the strike points on the casts I have been on in the last several years have not been on a coon track anyway. The tree points are verified to be a coon. So the tree points need to be where the hunt is won or lost. Counting down the tree points and leaving the strike points the same just makes the strike points a higher percentage of the points on the scorecard. I sure don't want to see that. All dogs have to be competing for strike for 100 strike to be available but that is often just the first drop when the dogs are most likely to be babbling. That makes no sense. I would much rather see a dog getting 75 tree at 4:59 on a seen coon than get 100 strike at 55 seconds into the first drop. Neither are contributing anything to the hunt but at least the one is treeing a coon.

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