UKC Forums - cast win towards gr nt ch

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UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- cast win towards gr nt ch (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928501641)

Posted by joey on 03-15-2018 04:01 AM:

Although there are not as many of us as there used to be, having enough for there to be over 6000 hunts a year and people wanting more. I wouldn't call it dying, especially since there are only a fraction of coon hunters that comp hunt.

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Posted by Dave Richards on 03-15-2018 04:36 AM:

Michael

You made a pretty good point! Dave

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Posted by Dogwhisper on 03-15-2018 04:47 AM:

The idea of ntch. cw"s to obtain a grnt.
degree will only increase the amount of grnts being made .
Is that how we want ta grand a dog out? I don't think so.
I can just see it now A.O. has 999 grands entered.
Wow! UKC will b laughing all the way to the 🏦

Posted by Chuck Allen on 03-15-2018 05:04 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by nitehunter2004
Do you have any input that will improve the attendance?

Make hunts fun , for everyone even those with extra trashy depression era sportmen's hounds like mine. We need to try and have fun in everything we do, no matter what happens win lose or draw. We need more Jerry Clower and less Wolf of Wall Street. I do go and have fun 99% of the time except on the nights when my ears start ringing. I am planning on going to a RQE this weekend or next maybe both. Going hunting in about an hour. My last thought on this every time my dogs locate I think about my first x-breed dog I had as a kid raised him from a pup General Lee was his name, he was a good squirrel and varmint dog and a tree dog second to none, even by todays standards. I still have that joy in my heart today 41 years later.

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Posted by johnny reb on 03-15-2018 12:56 PM:

Rain gray this sport is no more expensive than any other sport. Look at some of the traveling ball teams if you want to see expensive. A lot of these teams are anywhere from $1,000- $ 3,500 Just to be on the tea if the kid makes the team. Tracking systems , dog boxes, lights, and trucks are something you have whether you competition hunt or not. The price of foo hounds has remained pretty much unchanged for 30 years. Coon huntingis on e of the Cheapest form of dog hunting. I don’t have an answer on how to turn things around but I do think only having to win you’re cast to place would be a good start. All a person can do is try and win there cast whether that’s with 800+ or with 0.

Posted by novicane65 on 03-15-2018 01:21 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Brian Gray
This is of the subject a little but coon hunting use to be a good ol country boys past time didn't have to have a Dr. or lawyer income to be able to afford this sport. Now days the price of a decent dog that a person feels like it can win some hunts with most workin men can't afford then you need a tracking system to keep your investment safe. then you have lights,trucks,dog boxes and all the other things that go along with it. Most folks just don't have the funds to invest in this sport when most of the time there is no return on all your investments. Back in the 80's when I remember 60 to 80 dogs being at a coon hunt the coon hides where high and a person could make a decent wage of a season kill to justify the expense now days you just have to love it to stay with it. This sport if you think about it is very expensive might have something to do with people not getting involved.

If you really want expensive try buying a finished upland dog. And not just the avg finished dog. Try one of the top shelf competition field trailers. I bet you'll spend way more than you would on a hound. Now take a step back, buy a decent started young dog, say $1500 in hounds. That's puppy price in bird dogs.

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Posted by ov_blues on 03-15-2018 02:08 PM:

Here is my suggestion to blend some new with the old. Add a third degree of Suprme Grand Night Champion. Keep hunting all of the dogs in their degree catagory. Give 40 points for first place in each catagory with 20 points received for any other cast winner with plus points. Require 200 total points to receive each level of title requirements.

Performance points could be figured at the same rate that they are now for a first place in each catagory. Lower the point value received for a second place and then pay that amount based on that percentage for any other cast winners that didn’t get first in their catagory but did win their cast with plus points. Any cast winner with a performance eligible hound would then get points toward their degree and some performance money for winning their cast but would just have to wait on their money until Ukc paid it out. I believe you would also see an increase in pups paid up with the incentive of getting paid each and every time that a person won their cast which would increase the overall performance fund even though there is a possibility of more dogs getting paid for a non first place win and more Gr Nt Ch performance money being paid out.

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Posted by pamjohnson on 03-15-2018 02:24 PM:

sounds like one thing most all of agree on is, all ya can do is win your cast. so it sounds like we need to figure out were to go from there.

Posted by shane_atchison on 03-15-2018 02:29 PM:

Fix the title problem from the front, do away with the point system and require 5 hunt wins for Nite Champion. That will increase attendance as more required wins means more hunts entered per dog, helping the clubs and giving a lil more meaning to the titles..

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Posted by JiM on 03-15-2018 02:35 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
sounds like one thing most all of agree on is, all ya can do is win your cast. so it sounds like we need to figure out were to go from there.

Really? Have you looked at your own poll?

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Posted by pamjohnson on 03-15-2018 02:36 PM:

Re: BIG NO

quote:
Originally posted by Truth
I had 13 Nt Ch. Cast wins on My Old Sue Female. She Died A Nt.Ch That GR.Nt.CH tidal did not do anything for her or myself. Now it would Have Brought more Fame to her Mother though. That doesn't say much there anyway.

TRUTH

that is discouraging. you have manged to remember how many cast wins she had but she gets no credit for her efforts and it wasn't her fault. i'm surprised you didn't get disappointed and give up or maybe you did? either way it dosen't have to be that way.

Posted by T Felderman on 03-15-2018 02:39 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Really? Have you looked at your own poll?

Beat me to it.

What you going to do with performance points?

Posted by shane_atchison on 03-15-2018 02:41 PM:

As with most sports there's a luck of the draw factor. What if EVERY cast hunts on feeders? Does every cast deserve a win?

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Posted by pamjohnson on 03-15-2018 02:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by joey
What if you made 10 cw to make ch and 10 to make grand? Would 20 cw not mean a more consistent dog than a dog that wins 8 under the current system?

this could work i think.

Posted by pamjohnson on 03-15-2018 02:57 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Really? Have you looked at your own poll?

i have. just because the yes's aren't blowing up doesn't change the fact that changes can't be made to better everyone's experience at the hunts and with ukc. i know for a fact some have voted no because they hate change or are afraid things can't change for the better but they can and they need to.
why did you ask this question jim?

Posted by joey on 03-15-2018 03:08 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Really? Have you looked at your own poll?

Its really kind of hard to get a realistic poll when what everyone is voting on is the current system. Obviously changes would have to be made to do this kind of thing. Until that is known a poll like this will not be even close to accurate.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 03-15-2018 03:21 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by joey
Its really kind of hard to get a realistic poll when what everyone is voting on is the current system. Obviously changes would have to be made to do this kind of thing. Until that is known a poll like this will not be even close to accurate.

Oh my goodness, if you don't like the results just blame the Poll. I thought that I told y'all back in February that changes were coming. Have a little patience.

Posted by joey on 03-15-2018 03:35 PM:

That was my point Mr. Richard.

Posted by JiM on 03-15-2018 04:04 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
i have. just because the yes's aren't blowing up doesn't change the fact that changes can't be made to better everyone's experience at the hunts and with ukc. i know for a fact some have voted no because they hate change or are afraid things can't change for the better but they can and they need to.
why did you ask this question jim?

Why did I ask this question? Well, because you stated in that earlier post that it looks like everyone is ready for some change but your own poll says otherwise.
Just pointing that out.
As for your comment above, you sound just like Hillary. If we arent with you on this, then it can only be because we hate or are afraid of change. I guess we are just the deplorables.

Posted by pamjohnson on 03-15-2018 05:21 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Why did I ask this question? Well, because you stated in that earlier post that it looks like everyone is ready for some change but your own poll says otherwise.
Just pointing that out.
As for your comment above, you sound just like Hillary. If we arent with you on this, then it can only be because we hate or are afraid of change. I guess we are just the deplorables.

lol! now that is funny

Posted by novicane65 on 03-15-2018 07:23 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Oh my goodness, if you don't like the results just blame the Poll. I thought that I told y'all back in February that changes were coming. Have a little patience.

unless the change is elimination style hunts, I still won't attend and neither will most of the younger crowd.

Posted by Joe Moore on 03-15-2018 07:37 PM:

I truly believe to get the local hunt numbers up you need a state, national, or breed race that is strongly based off of the local hunts. As someone else stated raise he entry by 5 bucks and put that towards these races. This is something that will keep the hunts interesting and worth attending for more people. Right now a lot of your local hunts are your die hard hunters or someone with a young dog they are wanting to push or even just some guys who didn't have much going on that night. I think you need to give people something to work towards and where they can get recognition out there by seeing their name in standings.

Posted by joey on 03-15-2018 08:12 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by novicane65
unless the change is elimination style hunts, I still won't attend and neither will most of the younger crowd.

Eric, would you go to your local UKC hunts on a weekend to stay in a state race. If that state race qualified you to go hunt for 100K?

Posted by nitehunter2004 on 03-15-2018 08:34 PM:

Ok I’m in but where is this $100k gonna come from? Do we hunt all year for a chance to win $100k? You won’t play the performance to get a guaranteed check once a year just to title a dog but we are gonna hunt just to get shot of this not guaranteed $100k. Heck I’m all in!

Posted by novicane65 on 03-15-2018 08:54 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by joey
Eric, would you go to your local UKC hunts on a weekend to stay in a state race. If that state race qualified you to go hunt for 100K?

No, reason being I can do a state race in PKC. And the ukc world hunt is basically setup the same way as their normal hunts until you hit the top 100. Correct me if I'm wrong but that doesn't prove who has the best dog, only the best guide until you get that far. I can name few guys right now that will pay more $$ to a guide than the club. Reason being to guide his cast for a big score hunting off his buckets. I for one think its ridiculous to do it and unsportsman like. But it gets done every year at every big hunt and a bunch of local hunts. In an elimination style hunt your actually find out who has the best dog or at least a better chance of it. The very thing I'm talking about happened not too many years ago at the NY state hunt. Until there's some type of fix to hunting off of buckets it will continue to be this way. There's a reason why the scores in both registries don't mesh or jive with one another. Why do you think in PKC the scores are so much lower? I mean that's where most of the GrNtCh end up hunting after they become GrNtCh 's. You can hold both hunts on the same night and you'll have 2 vastly different scores. And ukc scores are always way higher. And you can't tell me that the same dogs that scored 500-1000+ one night will just go to slick freeing a bunch the next night or the same night in PKC. I think the scores in PKC are way more of a true score than in ukc. But hey its jmo though.
And the whole 100k hunt in ukc won't happen. If it could it would've by now. I don't hate ukc just don't like the hunt format and I doubt I ever will. I don't see them changing anything any time soon. They're still getting paid.

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