UKC Forums - Baying, digging at a hole

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-- Baying, digging at a hole (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928492907)

Posted by pamjohnson on 10-03-2017 12:19 AM:

as with breaking any dog the younger and sooner the easier. 1st time it holes a little tickle with the collar till it gets the message. even a smart biddable old dog can learn it very easy.
in most cases it is the trainer that is afraid to train and try to see if there dog can learn.

Posted by thomasg on 10-03-2017 01:37 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by DFred
I've actually talked to Willy. He is a great resource on training dogs. I'll buy his book!!!

when he comes out with a book on breaking a dog to slick tree it might make a interesting read . i never had much luck at it myself . same with a ill dog although i have managed to light break a few . if willys training methods can change bad genetics more power to him . after having hounds 30 plus years i will remain skeptical . as 4 me i will not turn a hound loose wondering does it have a coon this time or worrying if its going to eat my coonhunting buddies dog up at the tree before i get there . i rather just move on to another hound and not waste time .

Posted by rick brocious on 10-03-2017 02:06 AM:

I want my dog to finish the track be it in a tree or a hole . And as far as wild willy goes I can't wait to get his book . Anybody can cull a dog for a fault but a real trainer will try to work through it . Is most faults in a dog ( and all dogs have them ) genetic or man made ?

Posted by rob thompson on 10-03-2017 03:00 AM:

Have any of you that say they want their dogs to stay in a hole ever had to go into a cave after your dog? Or keep going back day after day trying to talk them out of the hole? Or call your buddies to help you repel into a sink hole to get your dog?

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Posted by rick brocious on 10-03-2017 03:08 AM:

Rob I respect the point that you don't want your dogs messing with a hole , and yes i've had them go in a dozed up mess that you could'nt even hear the dog that gave us a scare and the neighbor had his go in an old mine that took him a couple days to get , but we don't have caves around that i'm aware of . It's not that i encourage my dogs to mess with a hole but if their at one digging I hook them up and leave .
But once mine start a track I want them to have an end to it not once they come to a hole and quit .

Posted by rob thompson on 10-03-2017 03:26 AM:

Well I have had to do it all, and had to repel down a sink hole the size of a truck hood 40 feet deep because a pup wasn't hole broke! The coon never was seen!!!! Most holes a coon is never seen, it comes down to personal preference I guess. I feel the same with doze piles, and if having a dog that suits the way I hunt makes me a retard or stupid like ol firebird says then so be it. But my dog is my buddy and has never failed to give me 110% and always tries to please me. He can't get on here and defend himself but I can assure you he is no quitter! And and plenty of folks will back that up! I'm sure you are just having a bad day Mr.firebird but I'd appreciate it if you don't go putting words in my mouth and popping your gums about my dog cause you don't have to feed him and have never hunted with him! Thank you

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Posted by thomasg on 10-03-2017 03:37 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by rick brocious
I want my dog to finish the track be it in a tree or a hole . And as far as wild willy goes I can't wait to get his book . Anybody can cull a dog for a fault but a real trainer will try to work through it . Is most faults in a dog ( and all dogs have them ) genetic or man made ?

breeders will tell you man made while the peddle there product . to many cage coon to much praise other dog started the fight ect. when in truth if you do some foot work by hunting with the breeding stock you can remove the wool they put over your eyes with fancy talk and titles . simply put most faults are genetic and no amount of training can over come them . what happens is you accept faults in a dog or end up lying to yourself that the faults are getting better . slick treeing face barking chewing the tree back tracking babbling extreme aggression hot nose cold nose close hunter deep hunter are some examples of genetic make up . close or deep are the only 2 i have been able to modify a dog to suit me by training lol

Posted by rob thompson on 10-03-2017 03:40 AM:

What's this got to do with holes? Not hard to start a new thread.

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Posted by thomasg on 10-03-2017 04:16 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by rob thompson
What's this got to do with holes? Not hard to start a new thread.

common rob we are all just bored cause we swore off the N.F.L. lol you are correct though about a starting a new thread .lol back to holes . had a buddy that had to hire a back hole to get one out . county sued him for digging up a county road . dog was in a culvert . i can only count a few holes made in last few years myself so the training process would be a slow go at best . most of those were in iowa in drain tiles . small enough for a coon but not big enough for a dog to get in . now if the young dog gets a couple more possums in a hole it will be game on .lol

Posted by rob thompson on 10-03-2017 04:21 AM:

Crawling in one of those culvert with a barking dog will bout blow your eardrums out too!

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Posted by rick brocious on 10-03-2017 04:28 AM:

Rob , if a coon runs in a hole or a field drain do they quit and move on ?

Posted by joey on 10-03-2017 05:31 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Ozark Hillbilly
Shoot yeah. Batesville has a little farm land, and white river bottoms, plus the black river ain't to far from there. It's a little nicer hunting than here by the house, but not as much public land. I keep telling myself I'm gonna go over there and hit the ukc hunt at Charlotte, but every time I get fired up to go, my dog seems to do something super stupid the week of the hunt and I end up talking myself out of it! Ha! Told myself next time I get all pumped up to go cause my dog is clicking, I'm not going to hunt no more that week until the competition hunt!

As much as I love to hunt, I wouldn't hunt your country to save my life! Them hills would just not be fun for me. I was at Batesville this Saturday Deer hunting and I coon hunted Black river Friday Night. I'll deer hunt the hills and keep my coon hunting for the bottoms!

As far as dogs treeing in holes mine don't do it enough to break them from it. The one I'm hunting now hasn't ever treed a hole but I've been told by friends that if I coon hunted where I'm deer hunting it would be a problem. I guess its all in where you hunt.

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Posted by pamjohnson on 10-03-2017 01:48 PM:

everyone can make there own choice and live with it as far as the dog staying at a hole.
pleasure hunting or competition hunting makes no difference there is no advantage for a dog to stay at a hole. absolutely none. now if the dog needs to stay at a hole so your pride isn't hurt as the owner of the dog or to prove the dog can finish a track which by the way could and most likely is trash often enough all i can say is i don't blame the hound for the owners lack of good training.

a good experienced handler/owner will break there dogs of staying at holes.

Posted by pamjohnson on 10-03-2017 01:49 PM:

even beagles don't stay at holes.

Posted by RH. on 10-03-2017 07:10 PM:

It's no fun looking at a dog 25ft down a sink hole not knowing if you're gonna be able to get it out

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Posted by Ozark Hillbilly on 10-03-2017 07:48 PM:

Yes sir Mr Joey, it can get pretty rough! Its all ive ever had to hunt really, so it dont even factor in. Its just coon hunting to me. It's also why it don't ever bother me to hunt new territory! I'm glad to see something different! Which usually means flatter. I'm with you, the hole thing is all in where you hunt. It only happens to me a couple times a year though. I think some of them old boars that's been treed a few times like to get where they can't be found!

Posted by novicane65 on 10-03-2017 09:27 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by firebird
I found the tards. Rob and swamp

I don't give a sh!t if the dog runs a coon up a tree, in a hole, into a barn, or up a telephone pole as long as the dog ends with the coon.

Is a hole not good enough for you lol

I'd have bunch of culls cause 25% of runs end up in holes or under a bank,another 25% in pines.

I hate pines maybe I'll break my dogs from treeing coons in a pine tree

I've actually thought about doing this. Around here for most of winter you'll be treeing in pines 75% of the time.

Posted by rick brocious on 10-03-2017 10:24 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
everyone can make there own choice and live with it as far as the dog staying at a hole.
pleasure hunting or competition hunting makes no difference there is no advantage for a dog to stay at a hole. absolutely none. now if the dog needs to stay at a hole so your pride isn't hurt as the owner of the dog or to prove the dog can finish a track which by the way could and most likely is trash often enough all i can say is i don't blame the hound for the owners lack of good training.

a good experienced handler/owner will break there dogs of staying at holes.

Pride has nothing to do with it , I just don't want my dog to start a track and then stop when it goes to ground . But that's MY choosing . As far as good training who are you to say that just because a person chooses not to break a dog from holing that they don't know how to train?
I can assure that there were times my dogs holed that there was a coon in the hole . SO GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE . Did'nt know we had so many experts on here ,seems when someone comments on here you always get one that got to give a smart a$$ answer !

Posted by rick brocious on 10-03-2017 10:32 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
even beagles don't stay at holes.

And foxhounds don't tree . So whats your point ? Enlighten me expert .

Posted by rob thompson on 10-03-2017 11:49 PM:

I've seen foxhound quit a coyote and get wooded on coons! Lol Rick everyone has an idea of what they want and most are different. Just do what suits you needs and be happy.

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Posted by ov_blues on 10-04-2017 05:14 AM:

My Dad paid a pretty penny for a couple of Gr Nt Ch females. Both of them got stuck in holes under rock ledges in the first month that we had them. Dug one of them out and had to leave the other one but she somehow ended up getting out and we picked her up the next day. He had bought a Nt Ch male before that who one night got in a hole and his collar got caught on a root and he couldn't get out. That was before the garmins and I was able to find him with the old beep beep system. Had another female I bought from North Carolina who would stay in a hole. All four of those dogs I ended up breaking them out of holes when they figured out I was not a happy camper when I got to them and they were digging in a hole. I think the dangers of a dog staying in a hole in some areas is worse than other places especially where it is hilly and the holes are deeper and where there are rock cliffs in hill country or long drain tiles in some agricultural areas. I personally don't want to take a long walk to a dog barking and digging in a hole and I feel if the dog gets out of the hole and goes hunting again that they will usually get another coon treed in the time that they would have wasted staying at the hole. I've never had a dog stop running and treeing coon just because I've corrected them for staying in a hole. Although I don't competition hunt very much I feel like I will tree more coon pleasure hunting if the dog goes on and finds another coon it can tree. That's just my opinion so to each there own.

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Posted by pamjohnson on 10-04-2017 01:35 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by rick brocious
And foxhounds don't tree . So whats your point ? Enlighten me expert .

i bet they just sit there and dig them out. lol! dig on i'm out. good luck and good day.

Posted by ssgied on 10-04-2017 04:45 PM:

If mine locates a hole that's good enough for me. Track ended they did their job. Go on and find another. I don't have to see the hole to know what happened.

Posted by swamp1 on 10-05-2017 06:49 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
i bet they just sit there and dig them out. lol! dig on i'm out. good luck and good day.

Lol, sometimes when they finish digging that one,its time to start digging another one. Foxhounds don't tree coons,Lol. My brother and our cousin, we filled freezers up with coons in early eighty's with foxhound off my dads dogs that trashed on coons,saved him from being culled. Ole warrior was a bad hound,no slick treeing idiot. I've seen deer hounds tree coon firsthand back in day, bought one off of tree,that morning,shot it out to her.Lol.

Posted by swamp1 on 10-05-2017 07:04 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by novicane65
I've actually thought about doing this. Around here for most of winter you'll be treeing in pines 75% of the time.

Lol, me personally. I wouldn't do it. It ain't fun trying to get dog out of holes though. If person has to hunt around armadillo's much they'll likely consider breaking one off holes,hint,with a opposum in it.Lol.

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