UKC Forums - Running to the trees

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Posted by harleydan1956 on 05-29-2017 04:00 PM:

Msinc.. IMO, the rules state, cast should go only as fast as he slowest person, layman terms, ... But it also says attempt to be at the tree in 5 minutes.
Ed Zachary brought up a good point, but not starting to the tree quicker is the judges fault, not a slower handler. The judge delayed getting there....
Msinc.. the attempt to get to the tree is, IMO, the allowance to start to the tree asap... Stopping along the way to allow other handlers to listen... But if the dogs are treed 600 yards deep, does that rule give you permission to run? (Title of this post). Absolutely not. It says attempt.. not must be.. the cast goes as fast as the slowest person.. pretty cut and dry. If a dog is running trash... You will waste much more time waiting on the dog than any slower handler, ever...
Recently, I was on a cast, not the judge, not the guide.. but we drew a gentleman with Parkinson's.... A long standing member of the club, we all helped him. Up little hills, catch his dog.... Did he win, nope.. but he was very appreciative of our help. The cast winner? Was very helpful to him also.
Hunting AO a few years back, had an old gentleman that would sit in the truck, just to listen to the dogs. My dog went deep.... Time out was called... The older gentleman offered to ride with me as he knew the area very well. We found her over a mile and a half away. She was treed. Only 100-120 yards off the road. He asked if he could come see if she had a coon. I gave him my flashlight I had in the truck. He had a heck of a time getting to her..... She had 2 coon up. The look on his face was priceless. But due to him having so much trouble, I missed the hour deadline... got scratched. Was it worth it? Yes.. who knows... Might have been the last coon he ever saw treed. There will be other hunts, other cast wins... But maybe not for them...

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Posted by shadinc on 05-29-2017 04:27 PM:

Maybe it's time we do like the "little blue pill" commercial suggests. Ask your doctor if you're healthy enough to competition hunt. LOL

Posted by BEST EVER on 05-29-2017 04:56 PM:

June 2017
Allen Gingerich

Pace Attainable by All
I recently had a conversation with a nice old fella probably in his upper-60’s. This veteran obviously still loves to hunt and usually carries a pretty decent hound. The conversation turned into the topic of how some of the younger guys tend to be in a big hurry getting to trees. He said that most casts are great about not leaving him behind but every now and then he’ll run into some guys that just don’t care to gear it down a bit. He also remarked that it may not be that much longer before he’ll have to turn the lead strap over to a younger handler.

It was obvious by the stories and memories he shared that he has never lost an ounce of passion for hunting hounds and competing with them. While this topic was addressed a number of years ago in this column, his passion inspired me to touch on the topic again as a friendly reminder for us to be considerate of those older hunters who still enjoy the nite hunts.

Then just last weekend I was a spectator on a cast where one of the handlers was a bit older and slower. However, not even close, in my opinion, where he should consider giving it up. We’ll call him Bill, mainly because that was his actual name. As a spectator, I noticed that Bill was usually the one bringing up the rear and we were getting away from him at times. So, I started walking along with him at his pace. The cast was good about stopping periodically and waiting on us to catch up, but then off we’d go again. Nonetheless, walking along with this hunter reminded me again of the afore mentioned feller and gave me a few ideas to suggest on this topic.

First, Rule 9 (c) clearly states; {Judge must maintain pace attainable by all cast members of cast.} It irks me when I hear comments along the lines of so and so needs to give it up cause I’m not waiting on a slower handler. Guess what; the rules say you have to! Matter of fact, it says the judge “must” maintain a pace attainable by all. Stopping along the way and allowing them to catch up is what it is, but by virtue of the rule that is not maintaining their pace.

Walking along with Bill and stopping periodically to let him catch up brings me to making a point of something to consider when doing so. Everyone else who stopped to wait on Bill and I, got a minute to take a little breather. As soon as we caught up; off we went again! Guess who probably needed a breather the most? Me! Ok; Bill could have used one, although he wasn’t complaining about it at all. Rather it just reminded me of how that usually works and it’s worth mentioning as something to consider. Throw in some hills and tough walking and it would probably really frustrate someone like Bill.

In my personal experience, I can honestly say that I’ve never really seen where a slower or older guy has been a big issue. As the judge, you might start heading to the trees sooner that you would otherwise. Maybe stopping along the way a few more times than normal. No big deal, is it? It’s being considerate and I think they’ll appreciate and respect you for your consideration. Walking along with Bill the other night made me think of another good suggestion. How easy would it be to simply walk alongside that handler? Now you’re maintaining his pace and you might not even think it’s that slow. At least that’s the thought that came to my mind that night. Just a suggestion that might be worth considering.

Many of our older hunters have been a part of this sport since before some of us had wet ears. Surely, we can be considerate enough to give them a little break allowing them to enjoy the hunts as long as they can do so without hindering their cast mates too much. Think about it. All of us may very well be in their shoes one day. A little respect and consideration for the older hunters will go a long way.

Finally, it is the judge’s responsibility to enforce Rule 9 (c). It was implemented for a dang good reason. Intentionally, dragging behind is for another topic and another day. This one is about being a good sportsman/woman and doing the right thing and giving our elders due consideration and respect. [/B][/QUOTE] [/B][/QUOTE]

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Posted by BEST EVER on 05-29-2017 05:01 PM:

I reposted the statement as some do not comprehend or understand. But then again if you check they do not hunt too much either. Some were still a dream when we were hunting, now go figure on their comments.

Posted by msinc on 05-29-2017 07:07 PM:

Harleydan1956 read my post again sir, we are in total agreement, but there is a point at which nobody wants to admit that it is not in anyone's best interest to continue trying to competition hunt. That point is not reached just because someone has a little age or mileage on them. It is one thing to be a little slower than the others I have no problem with that, or making it work. But we are testing dogs here, not people. Again, there is desire and then there is ability. They are both commendable, but only one allows us to continue.
When did UKC do away with the "senior cast" remedy for this?????

"pg 64 of the UKC Coonhound Rulebook has a section that covers senior casts in depth, basically any individual over 55 is eligible at any club, breed association or state association level UKC Licensed Nite Hunt, this excludes UKC Slams, Autumn Oaks, Winter Classic and any leg of the World Hunt. Most events will require proof of age, and at least three veterans to be in the entry pool to make a cast. Veterans Casts will still be eligible for placement within their designated hunting category (Reg., NTCH, GRNTCH) and will still compete under UKC Nite Hunt Honor Rules. Individuals 55 and older do not have to compete in any veterans cast if they don't want to, it's simply an option UKC gives to those who are interested"

Bestever, you can keep posting it like a little kid that is not getting his way, but that will not change the fact that in the end you either hack it or pack it.

Posted by BEST EVER on 05-29-2017 07:37 PM:

Posted by Mark V. on 05-30-2017 01:09 AM:

OK we all treasure the time we spend with the old timers in the woods I have NO problem helping on these cast!!! but what i thinking of earlyer was a cast i was on a while back the handler was 30 to40years old and there was dogs treed in on the tree that wasn't there, now does the judge have the right to go to the tree to see if they are there or does he have to wait for the cast so the dogs that are not treeing get there??

Posted by BEST EVER on 05-30-2017 01:11 AM:

Too many getting off track.
Allen Gingerich

Pace Attainable by All
I recently had a conversation with a nice old fella probably in his upper-60’s. This veteran obviously still loves to hunt and usually carries a pretty decent hound. The conversation turned into the topic of how some of the younger guys tend to be in a big hurry getting to trees. He said that most casts are great about not leaving him behind but every now and then he’ll run into some guys that just don’t care to gear it down a bit. He also remarked that it may not be that much longer before he’ll have to turn the lead strap over to a younger handler.

It was obvious by the stories and memories he shared that he has never lost an ounce of passion for hunting hounds and competing with them. While this topic was addressed a number of years ago in this column, his passion inspired me to touch on the topic again as a friendly reminder for us to be considerate of those older hunters who still enjoy the nite hunts.

Then just last weekend I was a spectator on a cast where one of the handlers was a bit older and slower. However, not even close, in my opinion, where he should consider giving it up. We’ll call him Bill, mainly because that was his actual name. As a spectator, I noticed that Bill was usually the one bringing up the rear and we were getting away from him at times. So, I started walking along with him at his pace. The cast was good about stopping periodically and waiting on us to catch up, but then off we’d go again. Nonetheless, walking along with this hunter reminded me again of the afore mentioned feller and gave me a few ideas to suggest on this topic.

First, Rule 9 (c) clearly states; {Judge must maintain pace attainable by all cast members of cast.} It irks me when I hear comments along the lines of so and so needs to give it up cause I’m not waiting on a slower handler. Guess what; the rules say you have to! Matter of fact, it says the judge “must” maintain a pace attainable by all. Stopping along the way and allowing them to catch up is what it is, but by virtue of the rule that is not maintaining their pace.

Walking along with Bill and stopping periodically to let him catch up brings me to making a point of something to consider when doing so. Everyone else who stopped to wait on Bill and I, got a minute to take a little breather. As soon as we caught up; off we went again! Guess who probably needed a breather the most? Me! Ok; Bill could have used one, although he wasn’t complaining about it at all. Rather it just reminded me of how that usually works and it’s worth mentioning as something to consider. Throw in some hills and tough walking and it would probably really frustrate someone like Bill.

In my personal experience, I can honestly say that I’ve never really seen where a slower or older guy has been a big issue. As the judge, you might start heading to the trees sooner that you would otherwise. Maybe stopping along the way a few more times than normal. No big deal, is it? It’s being considerate and I think they’ll appreciate and respect you for your consideration. Walking along with Bill the other night made me think of another good suggestion. How easy would it be to simply walk alongside that handler? Now you’re maintaining his pace and you might not even think it’s that slow. At least that’s the thought that came to my mind that night. Just a suggestion that might be worth considering.

Many of our older hunters have been a part of this sport since before some of us had wet ears. Surely, we can be considerate enough to give them a little break allowing them to enjoy the hunts as long as they can do so without hindering their cast mates too much. Think about it. All of us may very well be in their shoes one day. A little respect and consideration for the older hunters will go a long way.

Finally, it is the judge’s responsibility to enforce Rule 9 (c). It was implemented for a dang good reason. Intentionally, dragging behind is for another topic and another day. This one is about being a good sportsman/woman and doing the right thing and giving our elders due consideration and respect. [/B][/QUOTE] [/B][/QUOTE] [/B][/QUOTE] [/B][/QUOTE]

Posted by harleydan1956 on 05-30-2017 02:16 AM:

Msinc... I had just concentrated on your second post, so sorry. Glad I reread your first post. And as far as I know, senior cast's are still out there. I was asked to be on one to guide earlier this year.
I am in pretty good shape myself, till it gets into deep mud or straight up revines with mud. But still can't keep up with young runners... That is why I ask to judge.... As often as possible...

Posted by msinc on 05-30-2017 03:12 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by harleydan1956
Msinc... I had just concentrated on your second post, so sorry. Glad I reread your first post. And as far as I know, senior cast's are still out there. I was asked to be on one to guide earlier this year.
I am in pretty good shape myself, till it gets into deep mud or straight up revines with mud. But still can't keep up with young runners... That is why I ask to judge.... As often as possible...

No apology is ever necessary sir. I like the senior casts, in fact I will withdraw my dog and guide one anytime they need me and I am not even a member...there is the occasion, more often than not, when you get with a cast of guys that have been around. Usually you can get with a few that really know something about hounds and you can learn something. There are a few out there left yet that don't have the mind of a 10 year old.......those are the ones that cannot help but show their mentality, again and again and again.......and that is why I am outta here.

Posted by BEST EVER on 05-30-2017 07:51 AM:

Posted by ashleybroke on 05-30-2017 08:55 AM:

Hunt

There is a problem with fat people while hunting because they can't judge their dogs while running

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Posted by BEST EVER on 05-30-2017 09:10 AM:

Too many getting off track.

Allen Gingerich

Pace Attainable by All
I recently had a conversation with a nice old fella probably in his upper-60’s. This veteran obviously still loves to hunt and usually carries a pretty decent hound. The conversation turned into the topic of how some of the younger guys tend to be in a big hurry getting to trees. He said that most casts are great about not leaving him behind but every now and then he’ll run into some guys that just don’t care to gear it down a bit. He also remarked that it may not be that much longer before he’ll have to turn the lead strap over to a younger handler.

It was obvious by the stories and memories he shared that he has never lost an ounce of passion for hunting hounds and competing with them. While this topic was addressed a number of years ago in this column, his passion inspired me to touch on the topic again as a friendly reminder for us to be considerate of those older hunters who still enjoy the nite hunts.

Then just last weekend I was a spectator on a cast where one of the handlers was a bit older and slower. However, not even close, in my opinion, where he should consider giving it up. We’ll call him Bill, mainly because that was his actual name. As a spectator, I noticed that Bill was usually the one bringing up the rear and we were getting away from him at times. So, I started walking along with him at his pace. The cast was good about stopping periodically and waiting on us to catch up, but then off we’d go again. Nonetheless, walking along with this hunter reminded me again of the afore mentioned feller and gave me a few ideas to suggest on this topic.

First, Rule 9 (c) clearly states; {Judge must maintain pace attainable by all cast members of cast.} It irks me when I hear comments along the lines of so and so needs to give it up cause I’m not waiting on a slower handler. Guess what; the rules say you have to! Matter of fact, it says the judge “must” maintain a pace attainable by all. Stopping along the way and allowing them to catch up is what it is, but by virtue of the rule that is not maintaining their pace.

Walking along with Bill and stopping periodically to let him catch up brings me to making a point of something to consider when doing so. Everyone else who stopped to wait on Bill and I, got a minute to take a little breather. As soon as we caught up; off we went again! Guess who probably needed a breather the most? Me! Ok; Bill could have used one, although he wasn’t complaining about it at all. Rather it just reminded me of how that usually works and it’s worth mentioning as something to consider. Throw in some hills and tough walking and it would probably really frustrate someone like Bill.

In my personal experience, I can honestly say that I’ve never really seen where a slower or older guy has been a big issue. As the judge, you might start heading to the trees sooner that you would otherwise. Maybe stopping along the way a few more times than normal. No big deal, is it? It’s being considerate and I think they’ll appreciate and respect you for your consideration. Walking along with Bill the other night made me think of another good suggestion. How easy would it be to simply walk alongside that handler? Now you’re maintaining his pace and you might not even think it’s that slow. At least that’s the thought that came to my mind that night. Just a suggestion that might be worth considering.

Many of our older hunters have been a part of this sport since before some of us had wet ears. Surely, we can be considerate enough to give them a little break allowing them to enjoy the hunts as long as they can do so without hindering their cast mates too much. Think about it. All of us may very well be in their shoes one day. A little respect and consideration for the older hunters will go a long way.

Finally, it is the judge’s responsibility to enforce Rule 9 (c). It was implemented for a dang good reason. Intentionally, dragging behind is for another topic and another day. This one is about being a good sportsman/woman and doing the right thing and giving our elders due consideration and respect.

Posted by JiM on 05-30-2017 12:32 PM:

Best, you have posted Allens article at least 5 times now. What is your point other than purposely trying to annoy?

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Posted by BEST EVER on 05-30-2017 12:34 PM:

Jim no one is making you read this, thanks for the feedback!

Posted by JiM on 05-30-2017 01:20 PM:

Thanks for answering my question!

Posted by joey on 05-30-2017 02:53 PM:

This problem and most others could be solved if we would just follow this simple rule. WHEN ON A HUNT DONT BE A JERK!

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Posted by JOSH VAUGHN on 05-30-2017 04:57 PM:

I hope yall draw out with poor little tink tink one day.

Posted by Melblank on 05-30-2017 10:02 PM:

Amen Joey.

Posted by wjoey on 05-30-2017 10:55 PM:

I'm way too fast to hunt with you folks Jim I liked the reply you got that mad me laugh

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Posted by wjoey on 05-30-2017 10:56 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by joey
This problem and most others could be solved if we would just follow this simple rule. WHEN ON A HUNT DONT BE A JERK!

Permission to be a jerk is only allowed on this forum

Not in the woods

Posted by turman on 05-31-2017 01:07 AM:

I believe that a lot of the fast walking is caused by judges who stand around waiting for the 5 to count down when the dogs are 500 yards in. Not many will cover 500 yards in 5 minutes so if the dogs are in there start walking. Waiting 4 minutes before you start to head to the tree means the dogs will be treed for close to 10 minutes plus before you get there. With garmins allowed to be looked at you know exactly how deep they are.

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Posted by harleydan1956 on 06-05-2017 08:37 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Allen / UKC
Interesting timing....... check out; A Pace Maintainable by All, a topic in the Advisor Column of the June Coonhound Bloodlines.

Wow... Coincidence, huh? Everyone needs to read it. Especially the sentences with the exclamation point afterward. Thank you Allen!

Posted by Bruce m. Conkey on 06-05-2017 08:59 PM:

Is the important stuff from the Advisor, located on the website?

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Posted by rob thompson on 06-06-2017 12:12 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by ssgied
I used to be high speed, until I left half of a leg in the desert. Now I am a little slower. I am not looking for sympathy from anyone, but nothing ticks me off faster than the rest of the cast being at the top of the hill waiting on me and when I get there find that they have all treed their dogs, because they were able to hear from that vantage point. Or as soon as I get there they take off again, cause they had time to catch their breath. Really I and others like me are not asking for much, just a fair shake. My dog may not be as good as others, but my entry fee is. For those that think that us slower folks should quit hunting, well you may be a quitter but I ain't.

I would consider it an honor to hunt at your pace, thank you.

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