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-- I think we are confused on this Cold Nose Stuff! (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928464093)

Bruce,

I can only speak for myself, and I have never been confused on what I call a cold nosed dog. I absolutely hate a walkie talkie Boo dawg of any color. If a dog stumbles on track, I am yelling at it to remove its head from its rear end and to get hunting. If they stay in that one spot too long, they don't stay at my house long.

Now, why would I want a cold nosed dog? Because my favorite time of the year to run dogs is winter. News flash, when it gets cold here not every coon in the woods is stirring. In fact, I have had dogs go 7 miles to strike and tree a coon before, and I hated that too. My history tells me that I enjoy my self much more when I am listening to a dog moving a track at good speed during all weather conditions especially when its cold outside. I also find that such a dog does much better in August when it is hot and dry out, and the coons move early.

That is why I like a cold nosed dog. I expect a lot out of a dog.

__________________
Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

I always see people wanting cold nose coyote dogs and can never figure it out, from what I can tell coyote are thick most everywhere and you should not need your dog running a 3 hour old track and not get that coyote jumped for miles cause the only coyote that matters is a coyote on the move and I want my dogs running with their heads up looking at that coyote while the cold trailer is half a day behind

__________________
Seth Olson

" 2. Now, why does anyone want a COLD NOSED coonhound. When you drive up to that corn field or pumpkin patch don't you expect the coon has just fed in there if not still there. When your go to the farm and turn out by the gain silo, don't you think the coon is close by. If not then why did you go there. "

You ever work 2nd or 3rd shift and not be able to get out at " prime " time.

Matter of fact , when I pull in , I don't want to have to worry about what time the coon was there.
Being a working/family man , I can't always choose the perfect times or nights to get out.
I have to take my hunting trips as they come , and I expect the dogs to take the tracks the same way.

However , understand this , I do NOT think that a dog that bawls back and forth all night is a cold-nosed dog.
Cold-nosed and slow are 2 completely different things.

__________________
Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

.

I worked shift work my entire life and much of my hunting was done from the time I got off work which was 6AM to about 10 in the morning. I have done a lot of different types of hunting. Because of competition I cast my hounds now. I use to road hunt and if anyone road hunts for any game you develop an eye for the sign on the road and your dogs actions and you know exactly what it does. The interest it shows in a track before it opens and you can see there track and see if the dog is going the way the tracks is going. Lot can be learned.
A month or so ago in a night hunt they pulled up to a spot and they took the dogs out of the truck to cast them. My dog went crazy. Other dogs just standing there. If it was the first time seeing this dog in the woods you would think it was a babbling idiot. Well looked out ahead of them and there was a coon up a tree about 50 yards or so. They walked down the road some then down a trail to try and get away from that coon. Me and another spectator stayed on the road by the truck. When they cut them you guessed it my dog and one other dog came back and got treed.
Anyone ever rig a coonhound like you do bear dogs. I never have but I have had them strike in the box before. My buddy corey after seeing our dog wind the coon like he did got an idea. He put his friends rig rack in the truck and hooked ole Mongo up to the rigging rail. Had no problem with him striking coon from up there. I kind of cringe because competition says you should cast them. lol Competition has taken a lot of fun out of hunting.
My favorite dog on the place here is a female out of Drop Dead Fred. She has less competition results than any dog i own but I like here. She is a real track dog and has the coon. I thought she had an extremely cold nose. I have seen here destroyed on strike and track by dogs that were of better caliber. Hunt here with lessor hounds and you think you have something to be proud of and you do. Hunt her with the top dogs and you realize how a dog can fool you.
Most peoples cold nose dog is just a perception in their mind. Just like any dog that strikes ahead of their cold nose dog is babbling.
I know hundreds of you have watched your dog on your Garmin go back and forth on the same track three or four times when they get in a bad spot and they never advance it.
I have watched a few and then got rid of them. Without the Garmin we are bragging on their cold nose. Mens minds have a way of sending false signals and protecting what they own. Even when it is doing wrong.
How many of you go hunting with your ALPHA in hand just waiting for the deer race break your hound. Then the deer race starts you can't believe it, you mind is telling you its a coon. Same thing with your poor track dog in the swamp. Your mind says it is not the stupid dog tripping over it's own nose out there. My dog can't be stupid. But man it sure has a cold nose.

Now there is one secret that would eliminate all of this stuff but it would also eliminate this message board and all the fun we have on it. Be a results oriented person. If you ever managed a large group of people you can see what I am talking about. You have 10 employees or you have ten coonhounds.
For the employees your have company policy, guidelines and regulations they follow to get the job done. With your coonhounds your likes and standards are the parameters they
operate in. You give your employees an assignment and they do it it. Your dogs you take to the woods, turn them loose or given them an assignment and they do it which is treeing the coon. What happens to the employees that can't do the work. You have no problem dismissing a person and removing them from the work place. With the coonhound that can't tree a coon it's different. First you start making excuses for it. You made excuses for your employees you would be the one gone. Make excuses for your coon hounds and your also gone from achieving any level of success in consistently treeing coons. If your happy with sorry dogs from a clouded mind. Have fun. Life is short. I have just as many sorry dogs as anyone on here. Dogs lacking ability is a hurdle we face everyday. Our minds just don't let us see the answer clearly.

__________________
www.ConkeysOutdoors.com
"Boss Lights"

Back in the early 90's I had a Blue female, old Uchtman's Ranger and Smoky River Diamond Jim bred.

I saw her trail and tree coon, and do it while making it sound like a regular working track.

She did this to lots of dogs.

And rarely, rarely, rarely missed a coon.

She would be sitting with a coon on the outside while other dogs, coon treeing dogs, didn't know what she was doing.

She was not any part of slow.

She didn't tree layups, and was not a winding dog.

She was just a superior track dog with an incredible nose.

Ever since I had her, I have been very interested in that extreme trait.

I have had others that were close to what she was but never one that I thought was quite as good at it.

I kept her until she died, and raised a couple of litters out of her, but she never had a pup quite as good as she was or with that kind of nose quite.

I'm not sure that those kind can be bred for with any consistency. They just are where you find them.

There are lines where good nose and tracking ability are prevalent, and I believe I hunt some of them.

But those ringers like her are rare in any bloodline I believe.

__________________
It takes a big man to cry; it takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man.

quote:

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Originally posted by jackbob42
" 2. Now, why does anyone want a COLD NOSED coonhound. When you drive up to that corn field or pumpkin patch don't you expect the coon has just fed in there if not still there. When your go to the farm and turn out by the gain silo, don't you think the coon is close by. If not then why did you go there. "

You ever work 2nd or 3rd shift and not be able to get out at " prime " time.

Matter of fact , when I pull in , I don't want to have to worry about what time the coon was there.
Being a working/family man , I can't always choose the perfect times or nights to get out.
I have to take my hunting trips as they come , and I expect the dogs to take the tracks the same way.

However , understand this , I do NOT think that a dog that bawls back and forth all night is a cold-nosed dog.
Cold-nosed and slow are 2 completely different things.

---

__________________
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured… but not everyone must prove they are a citizen. Now add this: Many of those who refuse, or are unable, to prove they are citizens will receive free insurance paid for by those who are forced to buy insurance because they are citizens.

quote:

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Originally posted by Larry Atherton
Bruce,

I can only speak for myself, and I have never been confused on what I call a cold nosed dog. I absolutely hate a walkie talkie Boo dawg of any color. If a dog stumbles on track, I am yelling at it to remove its head from its rear end and to get hunting. If they stay in that one spot too long, they don't stay at my house long.

Now, why would I want a cold nosed dog? Because my favorite time of the year to run dogs is winter. News flash, when it gets cold here not every coon in the woods is stirring. In fact, I have had dogs go 7 miles to strike and tree a coon before, and I hated that too. My history tells me that I enjoy my self much more when I am listening to a dog moving a track at good speed during all weather conditions especially when its cold outside. I also find that such a dog does much better in August when it is hot and dry out, and the coons move early.

That is why I like a cold nosed dog. I expect a lot out of a dog.

---

Re: .

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
I worked shift work my entire life and much of my hunting was done from the time I got off work which was 6AM to about 10 in the morning. I have done a lot of different types of hunting. Because of competition I cast my hounds now. I use to road hunt and if anyone road hunts for any game you develop an eye for the sign on the road and your dogs actions and you know exactly what it does. The interest it shows in a track before it opens and you can see there track and see if the dog is going the way the tracks is going. Lot can be learned.
A month or so ago in a night hunt they pulled up to a spot and they took the dogs out of the truck to cast them. My dog went crazy. Other dogs just standing there. If it was the first time seeing this dog in the woods you would think it was a babbling idiot. Well looked out ahead of them and there was a coon up a tree about 50 yards or so. They walked down the road some then down a trail to try and get away from that coon. Me and another spectator stayed on the road by the truck. When they cut them you guessed it my dog and one other dog came back and got treed.
Anyone ever rig a coonhound like you do bear dogs. I never have but I have had them strike in the box before. My buddy corey after seeing our dog wind the coon like he did got an idea. He put his friends rig rack in the truck and hooked ole Mongo up to the rigging rail. Had no problem with him striking coon from up there. I kind of cringe because competition says you should cast them. lol Competition has taken a lot of fun out of hunting.
My favorite dog on the place here is a female out of Drop Dead Fred. She has less competition results than any dog i own but I like here. She is a real track dog and has the coon. I thought she had an extremely cold nose. I have seen here destroyed on strike and track by dogs that were of better caliber. Hunt here with lessor hounds and you think you have something to be proud of and you do. Hunt her with the top dogs and you realize how a dog can fool you.
Most peoples cold nose dog is just a perception in their mind. Just like any dog that strikes ahead of their cold nose dog is babbling.
I know hundreds of you have watched your dog on your Garmin go back and forth on the same track three or four times when they get in a bad spot and they never advance it.
I have watched a few and then got rid of them. Without the Garmin we are bragging on their cold nose. Mens minds have a way of sending false signals and protecting what they own. Even when it is doing wrong.
How many of you go hunting with your ALPHA in hand just waiting for the deer race break your hound. Then the deer race starts you can't believe it, you mind is telling you its a coon. Same thing with your poor track dog in the swamp. Your mind says it is not the stupid dog tripping over it's own nose out there. My dog can't be stupid. But man it sure has a cold nose.

Now there is one secret that would eliminate all of this stuff but it would also eliminate this message board and all the fun we have on it. Be a results oriented person. If you ever managed a large group of people you can see what I am talking about. You have 10 employees or you have ten coonhounds.
For the employees your have company policy, guidelines and regulations they follow to get the job done. With your coonhounds your likes and standards are the parameters they
operate in. You give your employees an assignment and they do it it. Your dogs you take to the woods, turn them loose or given them an assignment and they do it which is treeing the coon. What happens to the employees that can't do the work. You have no problem dismissing a person and removing them from the work place. With the coonhound that can't tree a coon it's different. First you start making excuses for it. You made excuses for your employees you would be the one gone. Make excuses for your coon hounds and your also gone from achieving any level of success in consistently treeing coons. If your happy with sorry dogs from a clouded mind. Have fun. Life is short. I have just as many sorry dogs as anyone on here. Dogs lacking ability is a hurdle we face everyday. Our minds just don't let us see the answer clearly.

---

__________________
C.JONES

My question is how often do you see this ability passed down to the pups?I have a old female that can tree any kind of coon in any kind of weather and most of the time make it look easy.I breed her 1 time and the pups just don't have the level of track driving,winding ability and coon since that she does.Is that normal for those traits to not get passed down?They have similar amount of brains but not near the talent.

Re: Re: .

quote:

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Originally posted by CHEWBACH
Agree!! I find myself agreeing with some on here!! and than I just sit back and scratch my head!!! at a lot of them!! some absolutely don't know what a cold nose dog with intellince is capable of!! good one don't need a track to tree a coon!! they can just find those layups!! my kind!!jmo

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__________________
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured… but not everyone must prove they are a citizen. Now add this: Many of those who refuse, or are unable, to prove they are citizens will receive free insurance paid for by those who are forced to buy insurance because they are citizens.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jackson87
My question is how often do you see this ability passed down to the pups?I have a old female that can tree any kind of coon in any kind of weather and most of the time make it look easy.I breed her 1 time and the pups just don't have the level of track driving,winding ability and coon since that she does.Is that normal for those traits to not get passed down?They have similar amount of brains but not near the talent.

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__________________
It takes a big man to cry; it takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man.

.

Jackson87 you are so very, very correct. We discuss breeding on here a lot and think we can find answers. I am not sure there is any pattern that make the answers reliable.
We can all tell the other person how to breed when what we are doing isn't working for us. Yes there are people who seem more successful than others but how is that success measured. We all use a different measuring stick also.

I think about the only thing a man can do is first and foremost be honest because without this everything is lost. Being honest with himself is very important. Some of these crosses are going to work. Build upon the successful ones and be honest about the bad ones.

__________________
www.ConkeysOutdoors.com
"Boss Lights"

Being an old man, I'm going to throw my two cents worth into this conversation. I don't think there's a razor cut difference between a hot nosed or cold nosed dog. I think it has more to do with the gray matter between the dog's ears. I think it depends on whether the dog feels he can do something with the track. I've seen dogs people thought had a cold or hot nose do just the opposite of what you would think they would do. I've seen dogs that run a track like a sight race, stand on there head and blow on a old track forever and put meat in the tree. Remember we're dealing with dogs.

Re: Re: Re: .

quote:

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Originally posted by Well Started
You got me confused on this one Carson. How is it that a dog that catches fresh coon scent in the air and uses it's brain and nose to follow that fresh scent in the air to it's source to tree a coon that's layed up for a while, cold nosed? That's a dog with a good nose that knows how to use it in my opinion.

But none of it really matters. I like a dog that can move a track in fall weather or cold winter temps without spending time standing on its head, and tree accurately. Those dogs are fun regardless of what category we think their nose falls into. Ha.

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__________________
C.JONES

The best layup dogs I ever owned were dogs that I squirle hunted as pups haven't hunted my dogs on them in a long time and I haven't had a layup dog.

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
The best layup dogs I ever owned were dogs that I squirle hunted as pups haven't hunted my dogs on them in a long time and I haven't had a layup dog.

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__________________
C.JONES

I tried everything my spellcheck would not spell squirrel lol!

lol

Back yrs ago the old folk would say dog had to have three ingredents to become a coondog!! Hunt/strike/tree! today I think its !! Strike/tree/hunt!! seems as things has gone back ass wards!!lol

__________________
C.JONES

Cold Nosed???

I have read this whole post now and man, I'm not sure if it's about determining whether a dog is cold nosed or not or just getting into a pi$$ing contest about who's dog is the best. Anyhow, I' know we all think we've had good dogs in the past or maybe have one now and know what is cold nosed or not with myself included. The thing that most need to do, (self included) is to listen what people have to say and learn from it. Not all is feasible but we can learn a lot from fellow coon hunters especially the older ones that have been in this sport many, many years well before all the modern day gadgets came around.

An old friend of mine, that passed away about 3 years ago at the age of 80, told me that some dogs are more excitable than others when it comes to running track or trailing game and that is what makes them open more quickly on a track. I'm sure we've all seen it when we have a litter of pups or maybe a few young dogs when they start to track. Maybe one will tare out of there like they saw what they're running while the others can't figure it out. It takes a certain amount of scent to excite some dogs to want to pursue that trail and it may be a lot for some and not so much for others, hence the seeming of cold or hot nosed. This is what this older gentleman told me after following hounds for over 60 years and believe me, he knew what a coon dog was. I've owned all types but prefer a hound that opens quickly, hot or cold and moves according to their ability. My ideal hound died back in 2007 and I've already come to grips that I'll never have another like her. Like Mr. Carroll said, those type just don't come around every day. But one good thing, it always gives us a device that we can measure other hounds by. I do respect all opinions and comments on this subject and thank you Mr. Conkey for bringing such an interesting post to view. Have a great day.....Ron

.

Mr. Moore I was trained early to think like you said. All dogs have the same nose. The difference is the excitability level of the dogs. Many years ago some posters started to put the size of the nostrils of different dogs on here and the number of olfactory cells, so I dropped my argument. But I still believe it and I believe it ties the dogs into Brains.

The Canine Nose
The dog’s nose consists of a bony nasal cavity that is divided into two separate chambers by a bony and cartilaginous nasal septum. Within each of the cavities are the turbinate bones (conchae) and the paranasal sinuses.

The turbinate bones form into several scrolls of moveable cartilage and bony tissue that is lined with ciliated epithelial cells. The turbinate bones are a veritable maze of structure, and locating a foreign body hidden in their depths can be an extremely frustrating undertaking – a procedure that almost always requires general anesthesia.

The nose opens to the exterior via two external “nares” or nostrils and the ethmoid bone marks the posterior aspect of the nose.

The paranasal sinuses are extensions of the nasal cavity and various diseases or tumors may impair their drainage (especially of the frontal sinuses). When the dog sniffs, there is forced inspiration and the nostrils are dilated. The inspired air is warmed and humidified as it passes through the turbinates, and the mucus layer that lines the air passages serves as a filter to trap bacteria and particulate matter.

The dog collects scents by air-scenting (sniffing volatile oils that are traveling in the air) and sniffing the ground. A dog’s nose is ideally made for sniffing – the outer nares are mobile and allow for expansion on inspiration and contraction to prevent the entry of unwanted objects. When a dog sniffs, he inhales the scented chemicals into his nasal cavities, where they are trapped in mucus and processed by the sensory cells. Expiration forces air out the side of the nares so that its exit doesn’t interfere with odors still in the air or on the ground.

Several cilia extend from each of the sensory cells into the nasal cavity, and each of these cilia contains many scent receptors. After the cell receptors trap the smells, each cell has several (10 to 100) axons that deliver their messages back through the ethmoid bone directly to the olfactory bulb of the brain.

Once in the olfactory bulb, scents are transported to the frontal cortex for recognition as well as to other regions of the brain that include the brain’s centers for emotions, memory, and pleasure. There are many interconnections between all these centers, with the result that a simple smell, detected by a dog, likely has an entire set of meanings, memories, and emotional ties that only that dog can know and interpret.

Much of the deeper work of trying to understand the sense of smell has been done on humans; how do you ask a dog what he feels or remembers when he smells a certain odor? But we do know that dogs have much more surface area within their nasal cavities, and this area is well supplied with sensory cells – estimates of the total number of these cells vary and depend on the breed, but they have been cited as somewhere between 125 million and several times that. (This compares with estimates of human numbers that are in the 5- to 10-million-cell range.)

In addition, the dog has devoted a tremendous amount of his brain tissue to olfactory cells. (Some estimates allocate one-third of the dog’s brain to the chore of scenting.) All this adds up to a canine scenter that has thousands to millions of times the ability of his human counterpart.

__________________
www.ConkeysOutdoors.com
"Boss Lights"

What makes folks think that a den tree equals a colder nosed dog. I don't quite get it.Most den trees are empty anyway.Coons come out at night.These dogs mostly backtracking, the ax tells on them kind. JMO

quote:

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Originally posted by 2ol2hunt
What makes folks think that a den tree equals a colder nosed dog. I don't quite get it.Most den trees are empty anyway.Coons come out at night.These dogs mostly backtracking, the ax tells on them kind. JMO

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__________________
It takes a big man to cry; it takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man.

quote:

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Originally posted by 2ol2hunt
What makes folks think that a den tree equals a colder nosed dog. I don't quite get it.Most den trees are empty anyway.Coons come out at night.These dogs mostly backtracking, the ax tells on them kind. JMO

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I'll have lean on your experience in Mich.but here there are more bad dogs than den trees lol

I'll have lean on your experience in Mich.but here there are more bad dogs than den trees lol