UKC Forums - Squall rule and count down

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UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- Redbones (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=51)
-- Squall rule and count down (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928459907)

Posted by mmarshall on 08-27-2016 06:38 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
I used to be when I could keep up. As I said, I have nothing against Pro handlers and I greatly admire a bunch of them. I hunt as many or more local PKC hunts as I do UKC.

What the rule changes boil down to is.......
If you believe that a dog should be completely 100% independant and refuse to back another dog then you should be for the squall and tree countdown rule changes. If you think that a dog should tree their own or be first but it is allright to back another dog also when they get beat then you should be against the rule changes. It is as simple as that. Is it allright for dogs to pack or do we need to breed and or train them to be 100% independant? Without the tree countdown, the dog that trees one by itself and one with another dog can beat Mr Independant.

Agree with you on this one richard 😮
Thats it in a nut shell at least around here the guys that will hunt a Pkc hunt over a ukc hunt will flat tell ya I'm not getting beat by a me too dog but there definition of a me too dog and mine are not the same imo me too dog takes 75 on all strikes and trees there's is any dog that trees with another dog at any time in a 2hr hunt 😛

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 08-27-2016 06:54 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jack Bingham
Let's face it there's a lot of young guys out there that won't hunt Ukc without the count down. The post on this thread so far are by the older crowd...What's gonna happen to Ukc when we're done.

I sure am glad now that the"older crowd" didn't listen to me when I was one of those young guys. But of course, I didn't like it at the time.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 08-27-2016 06:59 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by mmarshall
Agree with you, Richard....

Oh my goodness, we agree on something. I am going to save this one.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 08-27-2016 07:12 PM:

Squall rule... I know that it sure penalizes the dog that trees by itself and you can only squall for the last 3 min of shine time. But.. do you really think that a dog that is close by and could care less that a dog has caught a coon on the ground and is fighting it is "not a good coon dog"? Do you really think that "good coon dog" should pay no attention whatsoever to a "squalling coon". It may not be a good independant competition dog. I had a walker dog a long time ago that would continue to tree after you knocked a coon out and the other dogs would fight it. He was a "real tree dog" and won a lot of money but he wasn't a "real coon dog". I mean, do we want tree dogs or coon dogs?

Posted by Travis O. on 08-28-2016 02:48 PM:

I like the idea of both rule changes. If my dog leaves his tree because someone is blowing on a coon squaller, he deserves to be minused. A dog that is split treed will typically be leashed at his tree so leaving isn't an option anyway. The countdown rule obviously benefits an independent dog and hurts a pack dog. It's not that big of a penalty for a pack dog if they're a good fast pack dog anyway. My thoughts on "pro handlers" is based on a limited amount of experience with them, but it hasn't been enjoyable. I respect a good sharp handler that strikes and trees his dog for what it's doing but when a paycheck is on the line, morals, rules, and respect seem to go out the window.
Regardless of what rules change, I'll still compete when I think I have a good enough dog to win, if I don't have a dog that I believe can win, I'll save my entry fee for something else.

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Posted by Jack Bingham on 08-28-2016 09:00 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Travis O.
I like the idea of both rule changes. If my dog leaves his tree because someone is blowing on a coon squaller, he deserves to be minused. A dog that is split treed will typically be leashed at his tree so leaving isn't an option anyway. The countdown rule obviously benefits an independent dog and hurts a pack dog. It's not that big of a penalty for a pack dog if they're a good fast pack dog anyway. My thoughts on "pro handlers" is based on a limited amount of experience with them, but it hasn't been enjoyable. I respect a good sharp handler that strikes and trees his dog for what it's doing but when a paycheck is on the line, morals, rules, and respect seem to go out the window.
Regardless of what rules change, I'll still compete when I think I have a good enough dog to win, if I don't have a dog that I believe can win, I'll save my entry fee for something else.

I've hunted 100's of cast in 4 different registries. The worst ones i've had were in UKC mostly because guys don't know the rules, there dogs aren't ready and don't like taking there minus. in PKC AND CHKC most of the people that pay 50-$300 entries there dogs are ready and they know the rules. the ones that think they're getting screwed usually don't know how the rules are applied. a high percentage of the time in the other KC'S the handler will minus his own dog.

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Posted by Bill Lash on 08-29-2016 12:55 AM:

count down

In my neck of the woods if you ask the regular Joe that only hunts UKC , they do not like the count down , if you ask the $kc guys they want it in UKC, I started in the UKC hunts in the 70's, I feel like the dogs of today are better than back then, just my opinion. The only thing I hate is when my dog covers a slick treeing idiot, when the leaves are off I get to correct this , hard to do when the leaves are on but I am sure of it when it happens. I know my dog and most guys in local events don't know there's very good. Goes back to the old saying "late at nite and all alone", hunt your dog alone a couple hundred times and you will know what they are doing by there bark. When I am ask to carry the score card I do not want the count down, I already have enough to keep track of. I do not know one person who will come to UKC if the count down is implemented, I also do not know anyone who will quit the hunts because of it. I'm just gonna keep pluggin along and maybe some day I will have one that will get by itself all the time and win me some big hunts.

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Posted by Tim MACHA on 08-29-2016 03:31 PM:

Amazes me

Through this discussion, I have seen so many change their original opinion. lol

Kind of like two guys standing across from each other looking at a number on the ground between them. One sees the number 6 and the other sees the number 9. Which one is wrong?

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Posted by Adam Wingler on 08-29-2016 04:06 PM:

Re: Amazes me

quote:
Originally posted by Tim MACHA
Through this discussion, I have seen so many change their original opinion. lol
?

Such a rule is your friend or enemy depending on what you're toting any given night. And if you've been around long enough and had lots of hounds, then personal preference can change to benefit whatever you're currently hunting. I've had both. And in thin coon country like here where every Tom, Dick and Harry uses buckets, a fast dog willing to steal a track when they got nothing going can do more damage than a dead loner, although I personally prefer the loner.

Controversial rule changes are weird to me and hard to cast opinion. I blame the businessman in me, I've sat on many boards of organizations where input is given from all points of view. But in the end a decision has to be made, I think, as to one that'll grow the organization (in this case nite hunt turnout) or at least sustain the current level. So where the majority lies will likely be the winner, unless UKC wants to take a risk. I realize it's a bit different than that here, but still yet the "pro hunter" is not the majority in the UKC weekend hunts.

Posted by Chris Snyder on 08-30-2016 12:59 AM:

Re: Amazes me

quote:
Originally posted by Tim MACHA
Through this discussion, I have seen so many change their original opinion. lol

Kind of like two guys standing across from each other looking at a number on the ground between them. One sees the number 6 and the other sees the number 9. Which one is wrong?

Or guys that now have a certain style of dog that fits these rules that they didn't have when they started.

Are they going to want the rules changed back in 20 years when we are going to be fortunate to be hunting on 40 acre plots of hunting ground and that pack dog will not get shot, run over or get you in jail for trespassing on. LOL

What if we were looking at the number 8?

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