UKC Forums - The All Grand debate

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Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 08-09-2016 05:19 PM:

When I said True All Grand I meant a true 3 or 4 generation all Grand pedigree behind a Grand Nite Champion dog.
I see many people advertising all Grand litters where the parents have only 2 generations of Grand Nites behind them...not 3. If some of the offspring from many of these crosses made over the past couple years start to finish out to Grand Nite....then their will be a nice selection of actual 3 generation all Grand redbones represented throughout the breed.
With only one 3 and one 4 generation all Grand Nite pedigreed redbones in existence at this time...we may be rushing things a bit to compare them to the walker breeds all Grand pedigrees that stretch back to 6 or more generations of all Grand Nites. You are right Richard...it's not an easy thing to make a dog Grand Nite...and it wouldn't mean very much if it were....and from a breeding stand point it is also not easy to create crosses between well matched dogs and end up with pedigrees stacked top to bottom with Grand Nite after Grand Nite.....and end up with the offspring of that cross also making Grand Nite ...especially at a very young age like G Man did.
I don't mean to sound like I am beating the drum for all Grand crosses to be the best and only way to breed good dogs....I am not. I have a line that I have been working on for 25 years now that just happened to start with a pup named Outlaw Billy The Kid who was the very first redbone who could throw a 3 generation all Grand pedigreed cross and I have been building on him as a foundation ever since. I also have dogs and have hunted dogs who were not all Grand pedigreed and they were good dogs and produced well too. The key thing to me as a breeder or to anyone who may be a buyer is to carefully do your homework and search out the weak links in a line of dogs that keep recurring generation after generation. These are the things that have to be bred out...while at the same time reinforcing the strong desirable traits and adding new ones. Some of these unwanted traits are easily spotted...such as color variations like black or silver from 6 or more generations back. If those things can reoccur that far down the line without being seen for 5 or 6 generations....what do you think the likelihood is of unseen or seldom spotted undesirable ability traits have of recurring at an even higher rate. One can spot color traits almost from birth...but other weak performance traits such as lack of desire to hunt, lack of independence, lack of tracking ability or treeing ability....these things can seldom be judged adequately until a dog is a couple of years old...and by then many people have already bred them and those weak traits have been passed on.
So the bottom line is....and all Grand pedigree can be helpful to "some" people who are not able to hunt with many of the dogs in a pedigree because if they are wanting a competition bred dog....that pedigree ensures that a substantial number of ancestors had a minimum level of competition ability in order to earn the title of Grand Nite Champion. Those who want to bash titled dogs can say what they want...but nobody can make a dog a grand Nite that won't stay treed...so you know those dogs would do that. And if there are a high % of those grands who earned that title under the age of 3 or 4 years old....then the chances are good that they were pretty consistent cast winners. If they won any big hunts or won in different states and with good scores for the areas they competed in...also a good indicator that the dog was probably above average in competition ability. As a breed...we really should give these types of dogs the credit and recognition they deserve for what they are proving....regardless of who owns them or whether you like the owner or handler. After all....it's about the dogs and their ability to do what we are breeding them for.
I think newcomers and even people who have been around this breed for a long time can still learn a lot from threads like this where lots of people write about what they think is important and the way they look at and judge how redbones are bred. I have an opinion like most other people...but it's not the only one out there. It's good that people can get on here and see a wide variety and then make up their own minds....I just hope that some of this information helps those who are looking for answers to arrive at the conclusions needed to keep them in the breed and help them reach their goals with redbones. Hope everyone is having a good summer and your dog's are ready for the big fall hunts that are just around the corner!

__________________
Shane Maxey
Proud lifetime member of the NRA
Banshee Wildlife Products
Hoosier Outlaw / Moonlight Redbones
1994 American Redbone Coonhound Association Hunter of the Year
My first 3 redbones raised from pup's were:
Dual Gr.Ch. Outlaw Billy the Kid
Dual Gr.Ch.- PKC Ch. Outlaw Timber Girl
Dual Gr.Ch. Outlaw Scarlett Fever
(((( Current Favorites ))))
2013 AKC Ladies World Champion
Gr.Nt.Ch.- PKC Ch- AKC Ladies World Ch Ky Moonlight Breanna
Gr.Nt.Ch. - PKC Ch. Ky Moonlight Woody
Dual Grand Moonlight Deana
Dual Grand Ch.- PKC Ch. Moonlight AfterShock
Dual Grand Nighty Night Amber
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Big Time Britt
Gr.Nt.Ch Outlaw Billy Jean
Gr.Nt.Ch-PKC Ch.-2015 PKC Red Days Champ Outlaw Cherry Bomb
Gr.Nt.Ch Outlaw Breeze
Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. All Grand Outlaw G-Man (over $20.000 won in PKC & CHKC) 2019 Southern Redbone Days Overall Champion
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Outlaw Mac
Gr.Nt.Ch. Classy Cali (Heavy Outlaw bred)
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Cat Scratch Fever
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Addiction
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Overdose
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Jinx
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Banshee
"Always outnumbered...Never outgunned!"
To enjoy lots of pics and videos of out redbones, find me on Facebook
as Shenandoah Maxey

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 08-09-2016 05:39 PM:

Re: the all grand debate

quote:
Originally posted by Black Ash Bawl
....................Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. Amos' Burning Ben
..........Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. Outlaw Billy The Kid
....................Gr.Nt.Ch. Key's Outlaw Jessie

((( Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Outlaw Mac ))) 8th place & 2015 ACHA World Champion Redbone

....................Gr.Nt.Ch. Montana Red Mountain Ranger
..........Gr.Nt.Ch. Ky Moonlight Kate
....................Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Kate

PUPS

....................Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. T-Top Rabble Rouser
..........Gr.Nt.Ch.Ch. Ficken's Deepwoods Rocky
....................Gr.Nt.Ch. Thomas Midnight Music

GR.Nt Ch Feldmann's Red Roxie

....................Gr.Nt.Ch. Hoyle Creek Red Rowdy
..........Gr.Nt.Ch. Ch.Williams Brushy Creek Daisy
....................Gr.Nt.Ch. Ch. Bomber's Y2K-D
I just bought a pup from this cross... if you are going train a pup you might as well start with the best bloodlines you can find.. IF ANY ONE ON HERE HAS A LITTEMATE AND WANTS TO COMPARE NOTES AS WE TRAIN ARE PUPS PM ME AND WE CAN EXCHANGE EMAIL ADDRESSES..I LIVE NEAR GREENBAY , WI...

I have a female from this cross and couldn't be more pleased with her. I took her and a female pup out of Woody x Bree that is about the same age to south west Wisconsin to run loose in a big pen Lisa and I built at the cabin until they are ready to start so I will let you know when I do that. Just saw a video of the one Chad Cartwright has that discovered a coon in a cage for the first time yesterday and oh boy...what a mouth and bold and unafraid. I think this is going to be a very nice cross. I love the mix of breeding it represents.

Posted by elvis on 08-09-2016 05:55 PM:

What happens is that a guy limits his stud choices of what to breed 2 by whats out there that can produce an all grand litter. foolish in my opinion but to each their own.
ive never been a breeder but show me 2 started pups to choose from and what the papers say has zero zilch notta effect on the pup I choose.
like I said,im no breeder. what I'm looking for in a dog is coon treeing ability. but ill bet I can take 2 dogs that aren't even close to all grand and have as good PAD percentages as the redbone breed has been able to come up with.
sorry if that hurts but I believe its true.

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 08-09-2016 08:11 PM:

Why would that hurt anyone? Nobody said you can't get a good dog from a litter that isn't all grand...
I have made over a dozen crosses in the past 4-5 years and only 2 or 3 were all Grand crosses. In fact...the last 3 females I recently bred who could produce an all Grand litter if bred to that type of stud were bred to Razor Red and Woody....neither of which has an all Grand pedigree. It isn't my goal just to make all Grand crosses.... my goal.is to make better competition redbones and I don't limit my choices for studs to only those with all Grand pedigrees. If that's what people think I am doing...they just haven't been paying attention. If your breeding for better competition dogs...it only makes sense to breed to proven winners who are from lines of proven winners.... and naturally an all Grand pedigree represents many generations of proven winners. That may not convinced any skeptics that a stud with a pedigree chock full of Grand Nites may reproduce better competition dogs than a stud with a pedigree full of untested in competition "pr" dogs.....but it certainly shouldn't invite as much negative commenting as it seems to. We measure competition dogs on the hunts they win and the titles they earn ....in competition.
So what better tool is there for people who are unable to actually go and hunt with a dog several times and to have hunted with several of its ancestors?
It just seems to me that some try to make the case that there is something phony or unworthy about dogs with all Grand pedigrees....which makes no sense because the dogs in their pedigrees are some of the most tested and proven competition dogs in the breed. Maybe that hurts some people who don't have a dog like that...but It shouldn't. Everyone does what they want and has their own goals and ways of getting there...I just don't think it is particularly helpful to tear down folks who are and have been having success in what they are doing and have been doing for years now. Nobody has all the answers...but some always seem to be making gains year after year and that's the kind of Redbone breeder / hunter I am trying to be..

Posted by Doug Bowers on 08-09-2016 08:19 PM:

I my self don't give a hoot about all grand.. never had.
If you got one congratulations if that makes you happy.

__________________
BROKEN ROAD KENNEL
"God bless the broken road"
Doug and Cleo Bowers

PKC SCH UKC DUAL GRAND TOUCAN SAM SEMEN

Also home to;ACHA LWSCH 'PR' Kentucky River Mundar ~ Sire is Kentucky River Rowdy (frozen Semen) BMOB 2013 Winter Classic
House's Lipper Hope x Kentucky River Rowdy
Broken Road's LITTLE TEXAS
LIPPERS STYLISH ROOSTER AT STUD
LIPPERS LITTLE TEXAS AT STUD.

"The WILL of God will never take you where the GRACE of God can not protect you

Posted by Adam Wingler on 08-09-2016 10:25 PM:

If papers didn't matter UKC wouldn't exist.

So, Elvis, if those two started dogs were equal in ability and you only could buy 1, what do you go for next? Ear length? That would also suggest you'd never take a pup unless from a stock you knew extremely well what to expect.

I didn't catch anyone promoting all grands, but the Walker world capitalized on it years ago which is now just a marketing aspect. My original question was concerning all grand redbones, or quite frankly any breed with a much less popularity whereas the # of grands is way lower.

But if we want to drag walkers into the fray then go for it. I'm not anti walker in the least, but to make a comparison we better go back many many years when those all grands came to life as that's the time period in which it would be near equal in comparison.

Posted by elvis on 08-10-2016 01:07 AM:

Shane, my post wasn't aimed at you, sorry if it sounded like it. It really wasn't "aimed" at anything or anybody, just my thoughts on breeding for papers ,which is pretty much what I'm doing if I set out to build an all grand pedigree.

What is the top redbone males PAD percentage? The last numbers I saw were ridiculous. Not just the redbone breed but all the breeds are laughable. And yet I keep reading posts from all these folks that seem to think they know what their doing. BAWHAHAHA This is why I said I believe I could take just about any two dogs and get as good a percentage as the all grands are getting.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad folks are still striveing to better our dogs, and maybe they are gaining, I just don't see it.

There is one little old man in Michigan that should write a book on the subject. He raises a litter a year and has for years. Always has a female that he breeds to different stud dogs and then makes line crosses back into his stock. Only hunts a few hunts to see where hes at. Ive never known him to even have an all nite champion pedigree let alone grand.
A few years ago he had a male dog that he decided was worthy of breeding a couple females. From 29 pups the dog produced 2 ukc world champions.
heck that's 2 more than the entire redbone and bluetick world has been able tp come up with.

In my puny little mind, the redbone breed needs more guys like this wayyy more than they need all grand pedigrees.

if I stepped on any toes, I didn't mean to. Just an old wore out coonhunter giving an opinion that aint worth 2 cents.

Posted by elvis on 08-10-2016 01:11 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Adam Wingler

So, Elvis, if those two started dogs were equal in ability and you only could buy 1, what do you go for next? Ear length? That would also suggest you'd never take a pup unless from a stock you knew extremely well what to expect.
.

Adam
mouth
tree style

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 08-10-2016 02:09 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by elvis
Shane, my post wasn't aimed at you, sorry if it sounded like it. It really wasn't "aimed" at anything or anybody, just my thoughts on breeding for papers ,which is pretty much what I'm doing if I set out to build an all grand pedigree.

What is the top redbone males PAD percentage? The last numbers I saw were ridiculous. Not just the redbone breed but all the breeds are laughable. And yet I keep reading posts from all these folks that seem to think they know what their doing. BAWHAHAHA This is why I said I believe I could take just about any two dogs and get as good a percentage as the all grands are getting.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad folks are still striveing to better our dogs, and maybe they are gaining, I just don't see it.

There is one little old man in Michigan that should write a book on the subject. He raises a litter a year and has for years. Always has a female that he breeds to different stud dogs and then makes line crosses back into his stock. Only hunts a few hunts to see where hes at. Ive never known him to even have an all nite champion pedigree let alone grand.
A few years ago he had a male dog that he decided was worthy of breeding a couple females. From 29 pups the dog produced 2 ukc world champions.
heck that's 2 more than the entire redbone and bluetick world has been able tp come up with.

In my puny little mind, the redbone breed needs more guys like this wayyy more than they need all grand pedigrees.

if I stepped on any toes, I didn't mean to. Just an old wore out coonhunter giving an opinion that aint worth 2 cents.

I didn't feel like you were aiming it at me...but a lot of people do.
I don't breed for all Grand pedigrees....they just happen sometimes when the traits match up on the dogs I like. If I wanted to...there is enough studs now a days that can throw a 3 generation all Grand pedigree litter with at least 4 of my grand Nite females that I could rotate them around and produce nothing but all Grand litters for the next 3-4 years without ever making a repeat cross.
That is not my goal...although I do think it is the stated goal of a few in this breed. The lines I use as my foundation just happen to be mostly full of grand nites....because they are good competition dogs and myself and others promoting the lines believe in proving the pups we produce in competition...and that usually winds up with the best ones finishing to Grand.
I just don't want people to confuse what myself and others are doing with breeders who may be actively pursuing nothing but all Grand pedigrees.
I don't care how good a set of papers look...you know as well as I do...that ain't gonna help you in the woods. If my all Grand dog doesn't act like an all Grand dog in competition....then it will get beat...and I am not pouring my heart, soul, blood, sweat and time into a program to produce "nice looking papers".
I get criticized all the time by people who don't even understand what I am really doing or why....that's ok....but I wish they would actually try to understand the motives of myself and the guys I have been working with the past few years.
We are by no means "there" yet...but we are nearer the front of the pack in this breed than the back...and we feel like we are making actual measured progress with nearly every generation of redbones we produce. I'm not sure what else can be done that we are either not doing or haven't tried.
I don't like breeding and hoping to get lucky...I would rather make calculated and we'll thought out crosses that put the odds of reaching our goals in my favor. It takes time....years...but I think we are and have been moving forward and as long as that holds true I am not going to scrap what has been working for me since I started hunting redbones 25 years ago.

Posted by wbond on 08-10-2016 04:57 AM:

Speaking of all grand pedigrees i wonder if there are any all duel grand pedigrees out there ? Back years ago when we had grade dogs we would breed the best female and male we could find together you were lucky if you got one dog in the litter to make a coon dog by the look of things I think the odds have improved considerably the only real tool we have to see were we are at is competition I have never had a dog with an all grand pedigree but I would like too some day just about every dog I have had and keep since they started it I get the DNA done on them don't know why I just like it now I have started putting a HTX title on em so point being I guess it all boils down to what you like and I like a grand nite title would that stop me from breeding to a dog that could help me build a better coon dog no and one other thing when looking back in a dog's pedigree maybe back twenty or thirty years and there may not be anyone around who hunted with the dog would you rather see Joe or Grand Night Joe ?

__________________
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. ~~ Thomas Jefferson

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have"

Thomas Jefferson

"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government."
Thomas Jefferson

Posted by Adam Wingler on 08-10-2016 04:23 PM:

Good point Bond, but don't stop there, go all quad-grand HTX.

Posted by RedScorpion on 08-10-2016 07:36 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by elvis
... but ill bet I can take 2 dogs that aren't even close to all grand and have as good PAD percentages as the redbone breed has been able to come up with.
sorry if that hurts but I believe its true.

Yes it hurts and yes it is true. I often wonder what those percentages really mean, until I raise a litter and keep a bunch and see how many duds I get (far too many)... and I admit I am no special breeder. But I usually drive all over creation, pay the stud fee and breed to something that I think will improve my stock. There has been many discussions about the redbone fatal flaws (no hunt in females, etc.) on here, so I would guess if we are truly going to improve redbones we need to fix that issue.

However, I will never discount all of the hard work that goes into making a dog a Grand Night Champion. I think it means something and does represent a decent level of talent. It is harder than most people think. Your dog sure needs to be idiot-proof, that's for sure.

I even wonder how many hunts it would take most coon dogs (not just redbones) under honest scoring to make it to Grand Night Champion even with no other dogs in the cast.

I do think that we need to increase the percentage of decent coon dogs in each litter overall, and I, for one, will start with that humble goal.

__________________
Home of the Red Solo Cup

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 08-10-2016 08:49 PM:

The last thing you wrote is probably one of the most important goals we have in our breeding program and may be the single best thing we can do to advance the redbone breed in competition circles.
One reason I am not a big fan of breeding to or getting pups from relatively unknown or unproven dogs with pedigrees I have a hard time tracing back with any degree of accuracy as far as reproducing ability is because seldom do you ever see whole or nearly whole litters of titled offspring come from crosses like that. Not saying it's impossible...just rare. I have studied hundreds if not thousands of pedigrees and crosses and without a doubt....on average, the highest % litters....the ones that produce 2 or more titled dogs per litter usually involve line bred dogs on one or both sides. Doesn't mean the cross was a line bred cross...just that one or both of the parents were heavy line bred.
On the other hand....many of the really great one hit wonder type dogs....dogs that stand out in ability but are usually the only one from its litter like this more often than not come from jumbled up "soup" crosses that may have several good ancestors....but from different lines and no apparent line breeding to concentrate thier desirable traits. To me...these type crosses are capable of producing a super star ....once in a great while...but that dog will most likely not be a dominant reproducer of the same because it just isn't concentrated enough in that dogs dna to pass it on to a high % of its offspring.
That's why we feel like it is better to use a combination of line breeding and specific targeted out crossing to add new traits, strengthen weak ones while keeping the desirable traits already dominant within that line at a high concentration. The result we see with these breeding practices is higher than average % of titled dogs per litter compared to crosses made which don't involve the use of line bred dogs on one or both sides of the pedigree.
To me...the potential for an occasional super star is at least equal using this method....but the potential to have several superstars come from the same litter...and the potential for each of them to be a more dominant reproducer able to pass those traits on to their offspring is increased immensely!
Aside from the strides the redbone breed needs to make in the abilities and traits it takes to out compete other breeds in competition...we have to make sure when we start seeing more and more of these super stars emerge withing the redbone breed ...that they can reproduce the same traits that make them great in a high % of their offspring. Without the ability to do this....these superstars will continue to be few and far between and be unable to sufficiently reproduce enough offspring with those special traits to allow the breed to sustain those gains....let alone climb higher against the other breeds.
It's imperative that as breeders trying to produce a better competition redbone...that we take the steps necessary to "bake in the cake" that which is needed for these next generation redbones to be able to pass those improved qualities on to their offspring at a higher percentage than anything we see today. I see no reason why it can't be done...if we set that as one of our top goals.

Posted by timber hunter on 08-11-2016 12:00 AM:

Hmm

Been a spectator of this post for the most part. I would agree with some of the stuff on here and disagree with some stuff. Correct me if I am wrong, I think if you are a true fancier of our breed the goal is to reproduce a better hound or as good of a hound as you can get to suit you! Yes you can take two backyard coondogs that are PR dogs and you could get good dogs out of them. And there are a lot of good lines of Redbones out there that do not have all nitech or Grnites in their pedigree and that's okay. And some dogs that are PR dogs will reproduce as good as others that are GRNITE's and that's okay. But to discount dogs that are All Grand or say that somehow there not as good is foolishness, (and it sounds like jealousy). I don't know of too many Grnitech dogs that don't deserve it, regardless if they have been hunted in big hunts or smaller hunts. If it makes people feel good to finish their dog in a hunt with 25 nite champions, hey that's okay too, but if a dog is a good coondog he's going to win and finish regardless. I wished I had the time and money to go to all the big hunts and finish all of mine that way but I don't have the luxury of that. I have a nice hound that has a lot of good stuff and he has won in big hunts and small hunts and yes he can reproduce an all Grand litter and I feel lucky and blessed because I have him. I think at the end of the day you have to be happy with what you have and have a goal in mind of helping the breed regardless if you have an all Grand or just an old coondog. Or maybe you are just happy with what you have period. If you have a really good one enjoy them because they don't last forever. JMO, we all have one! Good luck with those reddogs in the future John Dell

Posted by jkhutch on 08-11-2016 02:26 AM:

I think people are missing the point on what others where saying about finishing dogs in big hunts or not finishing in big hunts. I read through the post and counldnt find anywhere (unless I read over it somewhere) where people were degrading Grand Nights that have finished in small hunts. I think what people were trying to point out is to try to get a best idea you can on the parents of the dog and background on the dog you are pursuing in which they were titled. There is so many UKC hunts with really low hunt numbers and it's just easier than it used to be years ago to title a dog. I know it takes the same amount of wins to Grand a dog than it always did but there is a lot of areas that have only one cast of each division and it's the same dogs that will go to same hunts in a local area. You can look in the back of the Bloodlines and find this out for yourself. For example (not mentioning any names) there was a NtCh Bluetick that picked up a couple of wins with a 75+ and a 25+ in two hunts where there was 3 entries at the whole hunt one weekend and there was 4 entries at the whole hunt the next weekend. There was also Registered winners at these hunts as well so I assume there was just one cast or this dog hunted alone. This was in the back of the bloodlines a few months ago. Another example would be I know of a dog in my area that made Grand in about 8 to 10 NtCh cast. A lot of people know the dog and it made Grand by having only one cast in 3 of the hunts it was in. The dog spends a majority of its time dog barking at dog tracks and then will cover the first thing that trees, it will leave a dog track and cover how ever far to the first dog that trees weather it's 100 yards or a mile for a second tree just cause a dog is treeing. This dog will also not leave your feet without another dog with it and never split trees. I think all people were trying to say is to do a good "background" check on the dog and there parents when looking at the breeding behind some of these all Grand litters in any breed. I know I will due to what my buddy went through on his " All Grand" NtCh" that would never leave are feet until something else barked in the woods. Happy hunting!

__________________
Jared Hutcheson
Indiana
Redbones:
GRNTCH PKC Ch PR Hutch's Big Walnut Boone HTX DNA-V(Haze X Reba)-
2 Time UKC World Top 100
UKC World Top 20 (13th)
UKC Purina Redbone of the year
PKC Redbone CH
UKC Top Producers List
UKC Winter Classic High Scoring Redbone
Co owned with Richard Lambert

GrNtCh PKC Ch One Chance Fancy- (Boone X Toadie)
2018 Autumn Oaks Grand 16
2018 Grand National Redbone
2018 Redbones Days RQE 1st Place

Walkers-
NTCh PKC CH Jeb�s Finley River Peanut- Co owned with Bishop Stallcop
Claremont PKC Legacy hunt Final 4
PKC Breeders Showcase Final 4

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 02-15-2017 02:45 AM:

I will just leave this right here for future reference....

..................................Gr.Nt.Ch. Hunters Famous Amos
.........................Gr.Nt.Ch. Gr.Ch. Amos� Burning Ben
...................................Gr.Nt.Ch. Ch. Millers Red Betsy
.................Gr.Nt.Ch. Gr.Ch. Outlaw Jesse James
...................................Gr.Nt.Ch. Ch. Red Oak Mike
.........................Gr.Nt.Ch. Keys Outlaw Jessie
...................................Gr.Nt.Ch. Graves Bear Creek Ruby
.........Gr.Nt.Ch. Gr.Ch. Gliisons Outlaw JJ Jr.
...................................Gr.Nt.Ch. Hunters Famous Amos
.........................Gr.Nt.Ch. Gr.Ch. Amos� Burning Ben
...................................Gr.Nt.Ch. Ch. Millers Red Betsy
.................Gr.Nt.Ch. Gr.Ch. Wrights Little Girl II
...................................Gr.Nt.Ch. Ch. Dawns Timber Jack
.........................Gr.Nt.Ch. Gr.Ch. Outlaw Timber Girl
...................................Gr.Nt.Ch. Keys Outlaw Jessie
....((( Dual Grand Champion-PKC Gold Ch All Grand Outlaw G-Man )))
...................................Gr.Nt.Ch. Hunter's Famous Amos
.........................Gr.Nt.Ch. Gr.Ch. Amos' Burning Ben
...................................Gr.Nt.Ch. Ch. Miller's Red Betsy
.................Gr.Nt.Ch. Gr.Ch. Outlaw Billy The Kid
...................................Gr.Nt.Ch. Ch Smith's Red Oak Mike
.........................Gr.Nt.Ch. Key's Outlaw Jessie
...................................Gr.Nt.Ch. Graves Bear Creek Ruby
..........Gr.Nt.Ch. Outlaw Billy Jean
...................................GR.Nt.Ch. Ch. Dawn's Timber Jack
.........................Gr.Nt.Ch. Ch. To The Maxx
...................................Gr.Nt.Ch. Jenkin's Crying Katie
.................Gr.Nt.Ch. Gr.Ch. Nighty Nite Amber
...................................Gr.Nt.Ch. Gr.Ch. Stepp's Little Pepper
.........................Gr.Nt.Ch. Gr.Ch. Moonlight Pepper Ann
...................................Gr.Nt.Ch. Nighty Nite Moonlight Kate

((( Outlaw All Grand Litter )))

..................................Gr.Nt.Ch. Hunter's Famous Amos
......................Gr.Nt.Ch. Gr.Ch. Amos' Burning Ben
..................................Gr.Nt.Ch. Ch. Miller's Red Betsy
...........Gr.Nt.Ch. Gr.Ch. Outlaw Billy The Kid
..................................Gr.Nt.Ch. Ch Smith's Red Oak Mike
......................Gr.Nt.Ch. Key's Outlaw Jessie
..................................Gr.Nt.Ch. Graves Bear Creek Ruby
....((( Gr.Nt.Ch.- PKC Ch. Outlaw Cherry Bomb ))) Made Nt.Ch. with three 1st place wins and finished to Gr.Nt.Ch. in 8 weeks as a two yr old. Hi Opp sex champion at Nat redbone days. 2015 PKC Redbone Days Overall Champion
..................................Nt.Ch. Yellow River Doc
......................Gr.Nt.CH. Gr.Ch. Moonlight Big Time Bo
..................................Gr.Nt.Ch. Nighty Nite Moonlight Kate
...........Gr.Nt.Ch. PKC Ch. Ky Moonlight Breanna
..................................Gr.Nt.Ch. Ch. Wrongway Ace
......................Gr.Nt.Ch. Gr.Ch. Moonlight Deana
..................................Gr.Nt.Ch. Nighty Night Moonlight Kate

Posted by wbond on 02-15-2017 03:34 AM:

Nice lot of.work in that pedigree

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