UKC Forums - How many people would like to see?

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-- How many people would like to see? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928452200)

Posted by bert52 on 05-22-2016 05:39 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
The ones that run the hunts hard and a lot. They are going to have a babble/fast strike dog/idiot barker. No rule you'll ever make will get rid of them. Get rid of the min. They will just strike at 5 seconds in. They want shut up till treed. So you'll not get rhem minused. The 1 min rule will get the excited dog minused some. Will be lots of splitting strike points untill folks go to breaking babblers again.

the best babbling rule is AKC (sorry UKC, just my opinion) first min of drops.... cannot strike your dog. if dog is struck in first minute must immediately followed by tree. if not then strike minused. at minute if dog or dogs are barking then they are struck for 50 pts and each dog thereafter is struck for 25 pts. keeps the automatic strike dog from ever getting over a 25 pt advantage on u. doubt if will ever be implemented cause it comes from another organization.

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Posted by Fire Archer on 05-22-2016 10:32 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by bert52
really? lol! ever heard of the professional handler? now this is not saying all handlers are cheats now but a lot more cheating has went on since money hunts came into existence and also money men( again, some of them, not all of them) are paying for their dogs to win and don't care how but they do not want to know about it. fact or fiction?

I said most likely meaning there will be few exceptions. But yes most will never win enough money to cover their time and money spent. That is a fact.

Posted by russ hayes on 05-22-2016 10:46 PM:

Awful idea ,striking the track is just as important as treeing it!!!

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Posted by Doug Adams on 05-22-2016 10:59 PM:

Re: How many people would like to see?

quote:
Originally posted by Bryan Faircloth
Who all would love to see Strike Points be 25. I mean all you would receive is 25 points for striking in at all, even first strike. That would cut out the babbling and make it a even field for a coon dog.

I would! Most won't agree but I don't care which dog barks first, it's the one that trees the coon that matters! A lot of people think a every breath track dog is a track driving machine! But most of them seldom tree first! Seems to me the track driver should get to the wood first.. Nobody looks at a scorecard to see how many first strikes a dog had.. It's all about the wood!

Posted by JiM on 05-22-2016 11:04 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by russ hayes
Awful idea ,striking the track is just as important as treeing it!!!

I would agree if striking for 100 had anything to do with striking a coon track. Too often, it doesn't.

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Posted by AppalachianBlue on 05-22-2016 11:10 PM:

I would like to hope that a true coon dog would beat a true babblin dog anyway. First tree is more than first strike.

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Posted by shane_atchison on 05-23-2016 02:43 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by russ hayes
Awful idea ,striking the track is just as important as treeing it!!!

NO. Moving a track efficiently is almost as important as treeing it. Where you strike in a 2hr. hunt shouldn't matter much if you have a competition caliber dog.

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Posted by tim griffin on 05-23-2016 03:08 PM:

The super slam rule fixes the babbling dog question what so ever. After the first 3 minutes of the hunt you gotta strike them on the third bark

Babbling
4 (b) {First offense failure to strike a dog on or before the third bark, after the first minute each time dog(s) is released, will result in those points being minused.}
o Change: After the first three minutes of the hunt; failure to strike a dog on or before the third bark, each time dog is released, will result in those points being minused. Dog(s) determined to be babbling shall be scratched on second offense. Refer to Rule 4 (c) on first offense for babbling.

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Posted by TomPurdy on 05-24-2016 10:30 PM:

The undeniable truth is nobody, judges a hound by how many coon they strike, they are judged by how many coon they tree!

Posted by Donnie Stevens on 05-24-2016 10:47 PM:

Thankfully they are judged by how they strike and tree coons. And if they'd put the rule back the way it was so they could be properly judged a year from now we wouldn't still be beatin this dead horse !!!

Why was the rules changed for the slam series ? Who's doin was that ? For god sakes make the rule the same for all hunts.

Does anybody that hunted in the 80's remember having the problem with dogs babbling like so many whine about now ? No cause before they let em babble for a min on every drop ya either broke em,left em home, or lost. Change the rule back the way it was and they will stop huntin and breedin the babblin idiots.

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Posted by Chuck Allen on 05-25-2016 02:51 AM:

turn all dogs loose across cow pasture or plowed field far away from any trees or water preferably with lots of deer in sight. minus away on babblers.

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Posted by Chuck Allen on 05-25-2016 02:51 AM:

turn all dogs loose across cow pasture or plowed field far away from any trees or water preferably with lots of deer in sight. minus away on babblers.

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Posted by tim griffin on 05-25-2016 02:54 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Chuck Allen
turn all dogs loose across cow pasture or plowed field far away from any trees or water preferably with lots of deer in sight. minus away on babblers.

So your saying a coon never goes out into a cow pasture or plowed field away from the trees?

Posted by Donnie Stevens on 05-25-2016 03:18 AM:

Can't you tell if a dog is striking or just runnin and barking when you still got your light on it ? If not let me judge lol.

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Posted by wbond on 05-27-2016 04:32 AM:

Get rid of the minute rule and it will solve its self the babblers wil go hunt them one hour hunts and leave the two hour hunts alone

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Posted by Charles Pullen on 05-27-2016 05:29 AM:

Dog gets minus babbling so many times by different judges then that dog is barred . If minus the judge must make a note of it on the scorecard and on nite hunt report . Problem solved

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Posted by DeerSlyer86 on 05-27-2016 05:51 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by wbond
Get rid of the minute rule and it will solve its self the babblers wil go hunt them one hour hunts and leave the two hour hunts alone

that won't change anything.

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Posted by tsbtater on 05-27-2016 06:57 AM:

just a thought.....

Why can't they just move up strike points like they move up tree points on split trees? Problem solved.

The first barkers can get their bark points and the split tree-er can get their deserved points.

If dogs strike A, B, C, D, in that order and A & D end up on one tree and B & C end up on another, move D up to 2nd strike since they struck THAT COON 2nd. Move B & C up to 1st and 2nd since they struck THAT COON 1st and 2nd.

When dogs are determined to be split you move up their tree, so why not move up the strike accordingly? That would reward or punish them for what they did on THAT PARTICULAR TRACK AND TREE.

Posted by roger roberts on 05-30-2016 01:20 PM:

I think strike points is dumb there are no way to prove what dog found a coon track first a dog could be barking on anything or nothing at all or a dog could open its mouth first on a coon track but might not be the dog that found the track first and I am saying this just for that I have usually always had good strike dogs and had my share of top strikes and I don't think I have ever got bet by a babbling dog and I have been competition hunting for about 30 years I think 50 points for all dogs would be great

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Posted by Rocketman55 on 05-30-2016 05:41 PM:

I think strike points is dumb

Interesting position about strike points. I think I could use that same logic on tree points and ask that they all be the same as well, lol. The first dog to bark on the tree may not necessarily be the first dog to find the tree.

Have you ever been sitting close to a dog working a bad track, and see that dog rear up on a tree checking it, only to see that young gun of a pup come rolling on with its mouth wide open and telling all the world it has found the tree. I have seen this many times and for those that have not , it will be a learning experience. Now when dogs get treed off by them selves then yes you can pretty much figure that dog treed the coon, but when all dogs are working together on a hot track, it's which ever dog that throws the locate first that usually gets called for first tree, not necessarily the dog that actually found the tree first. So If barking is not a very good identifier of first strike, then it should not be used as an identifier of first tree either. Heck we can just watch the garmin and see who's little tree emblem looks up first.

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 05-30-2016 06:09 PM:

Now that is a great idea. We could just stop listening to the dogs and watch/go by the Garmin. Do away with strike points and whoever's Garmin beeps first gets put down for first tree and whoever's Garmin beeps next gets second and so on. And if the Garmin shows that they leave, they get minused. They wouldn't even have to bark treed. You could have a non-hunting judge that would put all 4 dogs into his handheld.

Posted by JoFrost on 05-30-2016 06:17 PM:

I would love to see something done to put a stop to people hunting babblers in hunts. I drew 3 dog this year at b&t days that kept the first three strike places open all night. Now this was on the rqe night and all 3 were nitech. Those 3 dog made 9 trees with no plus points. My neck was hurting by the end of the night. My dog also looked stupid that night but he new better that to babble when he was cut loose or tree on all those trees. He acted like he was waiting on all those dogs to get put it their place by their owners. My dog did tree one coon alone but with only 25 strike points it didn't help much.

Posted by joey on 05-30-2016 09:17 PM:

Re: just a thought.....

quote:
Originally posted by tsbtater
Why can't they just move up strike points like they move up tree points on split trees? Problem solved.

The first barkers can get their bark points and the split tree-er can get their deserved points.

If dogs strike A, B, C, D, in that order and A & D end up on one tree and B & C end up on another, move D up to 2nd strike since they struck THAT COON 2nd. Move B & C up to 1st and 2nd since they struck THAT COON 1st and 2nd.

When dogs are determined to be split you move up their tree, so why not move up the strike accordingly? That would reward or punish them for what they did on THAT PARTICULAR TRACK AND TREE.

Because that would make to much sense. I never understood if we all wind up on different trees with coons why they are all considered the same track. If they are considering it all one track then Jim is right we are awarding the dog that barks first not the dog that strikes the coon first.

For the guys that say get a coon dog and beat the babbler you are assuming the babbler is not treeing coons and many times that isn't the case. A lot of the most winning dogs out there right now. Leave barking and go tree a coon. The problem with getting opinions on these kind of post is a lot of these guys are not hunting in the hunts but will tell you what it takes to win and the rest only hunt local and only know the issues in their area.

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Posted by DFred on 05-30-2016 09:42 PM:

Re: just a thought.....

quote:
Originally posted by tsbtater
Why can't they just move up strike points like they move up tree points on split trees? Problem solved.

The first barkers can get their bark points and the split tree-er can get their deserved points.

If dogs strike A, B, C, D, in that order and A & D end up on one tree and B & C end up on another, move D up to 2nd strike since they struck THAT COON 2nd. Move B & C up to 1st and 2nd since they struck THAT COON 1st and 2nd.

When dogs are determined to be split you move up their tree, so why not move up the strike accordingly? That would reward or punish them for what they did on THAT PARTICULAR TRACK AND TREE.

Id like to hear arguements against this.

Posted by Donnie Stevens on 05-30-2016 10:05 PM:

So your gonna give a silent dog 100 strike points every time it trees a coon ?

Well ... If your trying to tighten em up that would do it lol. I think that's over compensating just a little for mouthy dogs when all ya gotta do is get rid of that min rule.

Seriously does anybody that hunted competition in the 80's remember having issues with dogs babbling ? I doubt it cause they didn't show up til UKC let em babble
On every drop. ImI'm starting to sound like a broken record bit it really is that simple.

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