UKC Forums - Split tree ?

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-- Split tree ? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928443075)

Posted by Surveyor on 02-10-2016 03:11 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Dog A has all the priority because he was treed first. Until dog B's tree closes, that handler must stay with the cast and walk to dog A's tree. If dog B's tree closes before the cast begins shining dog A's tree, that handler can go handle his dog. If the cast is shining dog A's before dog B closes, he is stuck with the cast till dog A's tree is scored. That's how I understand the rule. I don't think the judge can allow handler B to leave the cast until dog B's tree closes but of course, I could be wrong about that.

There have always been situations in UKC where your dog is behind and gaining fast and you find the hunt time burning off in large chunks while you walk around scoring other dogs.
There has always been situations where you are behind and you have to walk away from your dog when you really want to be walking to him.
Theses are some of the differences between pleasure hunting and comp hunting. You can't pick the comp hunt and act like your pleasure huhting.

I agree with this 100 percent. The judge cannot allow B's handler to leave the cast and head to his tree because there are still other dogs trailing that might end up on his tree before the 5 expires therefor there may be other handlers that need to go with him to handle their dogs at the same time. Now the real kicker in all this is I believe you should not begin shining A's tree until the handler of B, ties his dog and rejoins the rest of the cast at A's tree. I know its easier to just say stay with your dog and the rest of us will score A's tree. but unless you have a cast that you know are all honest sportsman this is a dangerous move-I was on a cast just like this once where we let handler B go to his dog and told him to just stay there we would score the other tree without him. The tree was as obviously slick as it gets, but the dogs handler had 225+ and first and first on the slick tree and was absolutely willing to do anything it took to avoid going back to zero so he voted to circle, because he knew it took a majority of the cast to minus, not the majority at the tree, but the majority of the cast and we weren't all there! I guess the best thing you can hope for is the handler of B has enough confidence in his dog to just say just leave him there till after we score A, otherwise it's going to be a huge chunk of time wasted and bad break to score things properly per the rules,

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Posted by amblue on 02-10-2016 06:06 PM:

to score tree correctly all cast members must be present at that tree. if dogs split tree you can handle them but if you are in process of scoring tree you cant go handle your other dogs until this tree has been scored. legally it takes all members of cast to score a tree.

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Posted by john Duemmer on 02-10-2016 08:29 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by amblue
to score tree correctly all cast members must be present at that tree. if dogs split tree you can handle them but if you are in process of scoring tree you cant go handle your other dogs until this tree has been scored. legally it takes all members of cast to score a tree.

Not true... Scoreing a tree requires a voteing "majority" of the cast.
In a 4 dog cast 3 are required to score.
In a 3 dog cast 2 are required to score.

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Posted by JiM on 02-10-2016 10:27 PM:

John, you need to read page 24 of the Advisor book. It takes a majority of the cast to PLUS OR MINUS a tree, UKC wants every cast member present to score the tree. It says that in the plainest of terms.
Now, you may say there is no rule requiring every cast member to be present to score a tree but again, on page 24, it states that under rule 3(a), you can be scratched for refusing to score the tree.
If you aren't there, you are totally at the casts mercy.

The fact is, if just one cast member says you gotta be there, you gotta be there or you are scratched.

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Posted by GA DAWG on 02-10-2016 10:57 PM:

I personally do not care. Mines gonna stay hooked if I have it in a hunt. So I will walk all over the country first if I have to. Problem is. Some or lots of dogs are not hunt ready. Cant handle any pressure at all. Will leave out if something even comes close. Maybe this handling of split trees should just be done away with. I figure it was meant for dogs treed fairly close to one another at least in same area. These dogs now they go all directions and get treed alone lots of times. Plus I just dont trust lots of folks. Time to change it

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Posted by Mark V. on 02-10-2016 11:01 PM:

NOT A CHANCE someone is going to make my dog tree 40min. when he doesn't have to!!! the rules say the judge can send a handler to handle his dog NO ands or but

Posted by john Duemmer on 02-10-2016 11:16 PM:

Jim I think 3a refers to a handler that is present at the tree but refuses to vote.
I would agree that whenever possible all cast members should be present to vote on every tree, but i have never seen a ruleing by UKC. that a tree may not be scored if the entire cast is not present, the exception would be a 2dog cast under a hunting judge.

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Posted by ssgied on 02-11-2016 04:24 PM:

Rule 11c reads after split dog is handled, handler to return to cast.

Posted by Clif Owen on 02-12-2016 01:49 AM:

I might be wrong about this but...do the rules state that a judge must allow a handler to go to his dog in that case. I believe it used to read something like "a judge MAY allow a handler..etc.' I haven't seen a copy of the rules in awhile. Soe guys are talking like they're going to their dog regardless of what the judge and/or rest of cast thinks.

Posted by Clif Owen on 02-12-2016 01:50 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Mark V.
NOT A CHANCE someone is going to make my dog tree 40min. when he doesn't have to!!! the rules say the judge can send a handler to handle his dog NO ands or but

How do you plan to avoid this? Even if you go handle the dog; he's got to be there treed until the cast arrives...right?

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