UKC Forums - Garmin Hunt?

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-- Garmin Hunt? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928427131)

Posted by GA DAWG on 08-24-2015 10:07 PM:

Lets say you did decide to walk. Going off this fellers garmin. Could you question that?

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Posted by DFred on 08-24-2015 11:26 PM:

I would agree to walk towards the last known location of the dog in order to hear it. Not based on the Garmin but based on the direction of where the dog was last seen. If you use a rule to not allow it you are probably just afraid of getting beat by the non- babbling loner. Or too lazy. Let's think about what would be fair if it were your dog.

Posted by groworg1 on 08-24-2015 11:37 PM:

who said anything about keeping up with dogs ? a handler that's dog is trailing when other dogs are treed has the right to pick direction to walk if his dog can't be heard after scoring tree and 8 is started are you going to scratch him if he uses his garmin to pick that direction ?

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 08-24-2015 11:48 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by groworg1
who said anything about keeping up with dogs ? a handler that's dog is trailing when other dogs are treed has the right to pick direction to walk if his dog can't be heard after scoring tree and 8 is started are you going to scratch him if he uses his garmin to pick that direction ?

There you go again changing things to support your view. This isn't even close to what happened and as soon as someone uses the Garmin to alter the cast in any way they should be scratched. Garmins are not to be used in any way shape or form to get an advantage. I will say this again Garmins were passed and allowed for the sole purpose of keeping dogs from danger.

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Posted by john Duemmer on 08-25-2015 03:15 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
The Garmin is never to be used to keep up with dogs. The Garmin is for you and your dogs safety not for keeping up with them in a cast. Has nothing to do with me, you, or any other cast member it has to do with following the rules the way they are written.

Who told you that? certainly not UKC, i have never read anything that says a garmin cant be used to aid in locating or keeping dogs in hearing. They have said that a handler may not "demand" that the cast walk in a particular direction, and they have said that a dog cannot be called struck or treed based on what the garmin says, but to say because the cast knows where the dogs are because of telemitry that they cant head in their direction is just foolish. The days when a cast had to stand around for an hour because the dogs are out of pocket or drive around half the night listening are gone forever. GPS has changed the way we hunt, some like it and some dont.

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Posted by D Sparks on 08-25-2015 03:39 AM:

RQE

Did u win the cast? what score did u have??

Posted by RLenhart on 08-25-2015 04:02 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
Who told you that? certainly not UKC, i have never read anything that says a garmin cant be used to aid in locating or keeping dogs in hearing. They have said that a handler may not "demand" that the cast walk in a particular direction, and they have said that a dog cannot be called struck or treed based on what the garmin says, but to say because the cast knows where the dogs are because of telemitry that they cant head in their direction is just foolish. The days when a cast had to stand around for an hour because the dogs are out of pocket or drive around half the night listening are gone forever. GPS has changed the way we hunt, some like it and some dont.

John if there is a rule against using a Garmin to decide if you should move closer to the dogs over half the judges iv'e hunted with since the Garmins were aloud have broke it. Because almost every cast at some point the judge asks "how far does your Garmin say your dog is" and "do you mind if we move closer to see if we can hear them?" It only makes good common sense cooperate and use the information you have to keep the hunt moving smoothly.

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 08-25-2015 06:55 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
Who told you that? certainly not UKC, i have never read anything that says a garmin cant be used to aid in locating or keeping dogs in hearing. They have said that a handler may not "demand" that the cast walk in a particular direction, and they have said that a dog cannot be called struck or treed based on what the garmin says, but to say because the cast knows where the dogs are because of telemitry that they cant head in their direction is just foolish. The days when a cast had to stand around for an hour because the dogs are out of pocket or drive around half the night listening are gone forever. GPS has changed the way we hunt, some like it and some dont.

rule #3 of the Telemetry Rules from the Coonhound Advisor. Posted 1/13/2014. "At no time may a handler demand the cast walk in the direction of a dog that has not been heard opening."

This is the case and point of the original question posted.

Posted by sleepy head on 08-25-2015 10:45 AM:

I hope lm never in a cast where the judge says, "well we can't walk that direction, because that's where the Garmin says they are"

Posted by DFred on 08-25-2015 11:59 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by sleepy head
I hope lm never in a cast where the judge says, "well we can't walk that direction, because that's where the Garmin says they are"

X2 . Lol

Posted by shadinc on 08-25-2015 12:30 PM:

You might all be missing the point of the telemetry rules. They were put in to stop a handler with a Garmin from having an advantage over a handler without one. Which way does the handler without a Garmin walk? Garmins were allowed for one reason, to tell a handler when his dog was in jeopardy. Never to influence the cast in any way.

Posted by sleepy head on 08-25-2015 12:40 PM:

I don't think UKC wants us to stop using common sense

Posted by RLenhart on 08-25-2015 01:03 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
You might all be missing the point of the telemetry rules. They were put in to stop a handler with a Garmin from having an advantage over a handler without one. Which way does the handler without a Garmin walk? Garmins were allowed for one reason, to tell a handler when his dog was in jeopardy. Never to influence the cast in any way.

I think your missing the point. We do understand that we just don't care LOL. In the real world most of us do have them and we're not beyond helping those few that don't. I've put my extra collar on other guy's dogs or linked my hand held up to their collar just so they COULD track they're dog. It's still a matter of "it goes on all the time" you discuss how far everybody's dog is (By Garmin) and move to catch up.

Edit; To say I don't care is a serious overstatement I do care about the rules as much as anybody. I just can't see running them into the ground just to be difficult.

Posted by RLenhart on 08-25-2015 01:07 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by sleepy head
I don't think UKC wants us to stop using common sense

X2!

Posted by JiM on 08-25-2015 01:20 PM:

UKC has 5 Telemetry Rules posted in there Advisor column. They should post them as a sticky in this forum so everyone has a quick reference to what you can and can't do with your Garmin during the hunt.

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Posted by B Thompson on 08-27-2015 04:04 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
rule #3 of the Telemetry Rules from the Coonhound Advisor. Posted 1/13/2014. "At no time may a handler demand the cast walk in the direction of a dog that has not been heard opening."

This is the case and point of the original question posted.

The problem is you are only using half of rule number 3. It reads

RULE # 3. At no time may a handler demand the cast walk in the direction of a hound that has not been heard opening. The judge, or majority of the cast when hunting judge is used, may agree to walk in that direction.

The second sentence plainly puts the cast moving toward a dog that's not opening within the rules.

As a judge and/ or cast member I believe you should give everybody the best opportunity you can. I believe the working dogs are the priority, but if you can reposition the cast without interfering with the working dogs, to allow a handler a better opportunity to hear his dog ,we should.

I have been against the use of Garmins since the start. But they are here and they are legal to use. We might as well use them to their fullest, as the rules allow.

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 08-27-2015 05:53 AM:

Fact is you can't use tracking devices to follow a dog that isn't barking. We can slice it and dice it 100 times. I'm sorry i'm not following your garmin and going to something I can't hear.

Posted by john Duemmer on 08-27-2015 12:28 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
Fact is you can't use tracking devices to follow a dog that isn't barking. We can slice it and dice it 100 times. I'm sorry i'm not following your garmin and going to something I can't hear.

Yeah, UKC should add that to the list, they could call it the Hoosier man rule. Pretty sure they were invented to locate a dog that isnt barking.
In the original post you may well have done the right thing, maybe you couldnt move without interfearing with the struck dogs, maybe moving would have made it difficult to judge the struck dogs, but to just not move to a location that splits the difference because the handler has a garmin defies logic.

Lets say all those dogs had been struck and AB andC get treed, you score the tree and pull em off, start the 8 on dog D who hasnt been heard for 15 minutes or so, do you let the handler walk the cast toward his dog for a few minutes to try and get within hearing based on where his garmin says the dog is?

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Posted by GA DAWG on 08-27-2015 02:24 PM:

I go back where we was when we last heard him. Start 8. Then I will walk in direction I last heard dog. Not which way his garmin says dog is. Same as it was before the garmin. Yall going off them on stuff like this is plain out cheating!! No way around it.

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Posted by B Thompson on 08-27-2015 02:41 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
Fact is you can't use tracking devices to follow a dog that isn't barking. We can slice it and dice it 100 times. I'm sorry i'm not following your garmin and going to something I can't hear.

What rules says you can't?

Posted by JiM on 08-27-2015 03:07 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by B Thompson
What rules says you can't?

Rule 3 of the Telemetry Rules says it. It says plain as day you can't demand to walk to a dog that has not been heard opening.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 08-27-2015 03:18 PM:

But it doesn't say that you can't ask nicely. How about, "I know that we don't have to but may we please walk in the direction of my dog?"

Posted by JiM on 08-27-2015 03:25 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
But it doesn't say that you can't ask nicely. How about, "I know that we don't have to but may we please walk in the direction of my dog?"

Exactly!

Posted by B Thompson on 08-27-2015 03:38 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Rule 3 of the Telemetry Rules says it. It says plain as day you can't demand to walk to a dog that has not been heard opening.

My question was what rule says, you can't use tracking devices to follow a dog that isn't barking.

Rule 3 says,plain as day, we can use them to follow dogs, as long as the cast agrees .

Posted by Terry Dye on 08-27-2015 03:42 PM:

Ever wonder why guys like me would rather suffer from a painful hemorrhoid than to hunt in night hunts? There is so much greed and jealousy among some of ya'll that would rather win a cast than to use common sense to walk a little ways to help a man listen for his dog that has gotten out of pocket that it is almost pathetic. I fully understand about rules being rules but there are times that a dogs life may be in jeopardy and some of you are so scared that if you walk 200 yds. to help a man listen that it will negatively impact your life forever. As far as rules go, in most states, the speed limit is 55 mph. If your child was injured would you break the speed limit to get them to a hospital? Do you come to a complete stop at every stop sign ? At some point, common sense has to be used. A man on a night hunt in a strange area that he knows nothing about will feel uneasy about his dog being gone out of hearing for a long time and according to the rules, that's just tough. From a pleasure hunters perspective, that's sad. I realize that he knew what could happen before he went hunting but come on ! For all you guys that say tough luck, I just hope you never have to depend on somebody to bend a rule for you someday. Although these ARE competition hunts, competiveness can ruin a mans soul. If I offended anyone, good ! I promise, just because a man uses his Garmin to get closer to his dog, the sun will still rise tomorrow.

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