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-- But how many hunts did it take ???? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928419335)

like i said hunt the dog. yes i understand u might like a dog out west.. i too cant aford to jump in truck an just drive on out an hunt the dog.. but alot of your big name studs have proven themselves at a major event.. that dont make them a stud dog.. in my opinion that makes there sire a stud dog. becuz he is the one that throwed the coon dog.. all the info in the world will not change the fact of what they throw... it is just more bull to have to deal with.. if you all wana agrivate with tryin to fig out how many hunts a dog was in before he was finished have at it.. but it will cause that much more paperwork on recording every dog an handler an judge on a score card. cuz cards have to stay with club for one yr. so info will need to be transferd to something else. an then ukc will have to set down an log all that info into each dogs record. do you all look an see how many hunts take place on fri an sat... an like i said everybody complains bout being on hold now. imagine if they had to do all that as well.. i personaly have no prob with ukc or the service i get... you do the data thing . like i said ill hunt the dog.. have a nice day

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"like i said hunt the dog."

"i too cant aford to jump in truck an just drive on out an hunt the dog.."

Contradictory statements....

I never said I cant afford it...I can try a dog if it was in Cambodia if I really felt the need. I said it is impractical. It's one thing to drive 15 hours or fly 3 one way to bring a dog home that you know you want to own...but to do all that just to see how it hunts???? Novel idea, easy to say, even easier to tell someone else to go do it...but nobody's really doing it. No, what most people are doing is rolling the dice and taking a chance. My whole point is that I think what the OP is getting at is maybe a better/different way. I also agree that what he's asking for is as impractical as flying around the country trying dogs to see if you want a pup.

are you gona hunt a dog or just go by the data you collect from ukc... anybody can hunt a dog in the hunts.. it dont matter if he wins all his hunts at one club. maybe thats all the man can aford to go to is a local hunt.. what does that have to do with a dog reproduces..nothing... if your dog hunted in 8 casts an wins 8 casts in 8 dif states at 8 dif clubs . does that mean he gona throw better pups then john does dog that hunted in 20 casts in 4 states an only won 8.. like i said hunting a dog will get u farther then records.. im not argueing with you about this, just seems like alot of work on the other end just so someone can look at a record or data that is collected..

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Let me try to explain it another way. Say for instance you have a female you want pups out of and your looking at different stud dogs to breed to. We all should understand that what really matters is what that stud dog produces . What are his pups like ? You narrow it down to two and they have 200 pups each and have produced 35 titled dogs each. You don't have time to hunt with 400 pups or even 70 pups. But you hunted with several from each. Would it be of any interest to you at all to know the truth ? Would you be interested in knowing that one of those studs produced 35 titled dogs but of those 35 , 25 of them literally were incapable of winning any cast at all unless they were at a certain local club and had a certain judge and a certain guide ? And other than that they lost nearly every single time ? So out of 35 dogs , only 10 of them actually won anywhere except in that exact club and with that guide or judge.

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On the other hand, the other stud produced pups that consistently won all over the place .

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If y'all still don't understand well that's my last try. Lol.

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you cant blame the dog for all that.. maybe the dog has a handler that just shouldnt hunt a dog... that kinda info can b more misleading then a dog trader trying to sell you a dog... lets say that with what youb want to do you have a dog that has 2 pups.. one in indiana an one in wv. the indiana pup wins 5 casts out of 6,, at 3 clubs with 3 dif judges.. an the one in wv has 5 wins out of 6 at 2 clubs under 2 dif judges...you are gona determin that the wv dog had the buddy system to get his wins. its a long ways in wv from club to club then it is in indiana.. i dont c how any of that info would help.. like i said dogs have off nights.. an alot of clubs have guys that always judge casts. an sometimes there is only a few casts.. you are gona get alot of info that will mislead you.. just like a dog trader...

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What happens in a hunt, how a dog wins can definitely be misleading. I have judged casts where 3 of the four dogs blasted out on a deer, not to be seen again that night. Leaving the fourth pathetic slow dog there to find a coon and tree it. The only one it treed because it took the dog an hour and 50 minutes to get it treed. Yes the dog was a cast winner and yes the dog got a first place win and no it was not hunted over feeders. Now is this really the dog you want to breed to??? I doubt it, but it sure read good on paper.

Excellent point. My post was to try to make things a little more clear for the common coonhunter to see the facts, even though there are still other factors involved and may always be.

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Would I love to see it, heck ya knowing it will never happen. It would change a lot of things for sure. There is a lot you can pick up by watching the hunt results if you pay close attention. I was very interested in a black dog a few yrs ago that won a lot. He won at breed hunts and then some. The only thing was the dog could only win when his handler was the guide. There were many big hunts close to this dogs home, and he cleaned up. Of course many didn't take noticed of this and think he must be something special. I also pay close attention to the Zones. Look to see were a dog is from and where they choose to go for zones. If a dog and handler is from the North in coon country and goes to a zone down south its more that likely a dog that takes to long to get treed but can work cold tracks good. Then you see who has the slick handlers if yr after yr a dog gets into the top 100 of the world or always makes the finale four in hunts but never makes it any farther once the card goes to a non-hunting judge. That raises a red flag. Of course this isen't all full proof but at least it helps narrow down the list of dogs worth driving to, to hunt with.

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Originally posted by River Birch Run
Would I love to see it, heck ya knowing it will never happen. It would change a lot of things for sure. There is a lot you can pick up by watching the hunt results if you pay close attention. I was very interested in a black dog a few yrs ago that won a lot. He won at breed hunts and then some. The only thing was the dog could only win when his handler was the guide. There were many big hunts close to this dogs home, and he cleaned up. Of course many didn't take noticed of this and think he must be something special. I also pay close attention to the Zones. Look to see were a dog is from and where they choose to go for zones. If a dog and handler is from the North in coon country and goes to a zone down south its more that likely a dog that takes to long to get treed but can work cold tracks good. Then you see who has the slick handlers if yr after yr a dog gets into the top 100 of the world or always makes the finale four in hunts but never makes it any farther once the card goes to a non-hunting judge. That raises a red flag. Of course this isen't all full proof but at least it helps narrow down the list of dogs worth driving to, to hunt with.

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what about the dogs that dont get put in a hunt,, there are some nice dogs owned by pleasure hunters. that get bred an throw nice nice pups.. theres no records on the stud cuz he is owned by a pleasure hunter

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Very very good point.

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Makin ukc and the moh do all that Extra work is just gunna make lazy breeders. Just do the research urself. Thats what creates a good breeder. Anybody can be a good breeder if some one else does all the work for u. Coon huntin is supposed to be fun. Not a business.

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Breeding

If you don't want to do the research maybe you shouldn't be breeding dogs. There are plenty of pups out there to choose from. If you do your homework those numbers shouldn't tell you a lot. The stud is to blame or credited too often. The female should be closer studied.

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a track record on some studs and their parents would probably tell some interesting tales. I would say it would narrow the field of potential studs considerably.

back to the original thought,

dog A's handler is also the guide, dog A wins big hunt by running straight to the feeder buckets he knows are there.

Or dog A's handler is the guide, but his friend with dog B, who needs the win and also knows where to find the buckets, ends up winning because of dog A's handler's call's.

How many

YOU GOT MY VOTE BUDDY. I have been to many good old boy hunts. Even went to some where if you wasnt a member . You was out before you started. Even with records. This wouldnt show up . But in time it would . A good dog would come out on top in time. My vote is show the record s . How would it hurt. Only the ones with something to hide.

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Kinda hard to due, the Ukc only knows what dogs were at a hunt if they win, the clubs retain all score cards.

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Marc Mcwhorter
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Originally posted by msinc
What happens in a hunt, how a dog wins can definitely be misleading. I have judged casts where 3 of the four dogs blasted out on a deer, not to be seen again that night. Leaving the fourth pathetic slow dog there to find a coon and tree it. The only one it treed because it took the dog an hour and 50 minutes to get it treed. Yes the dog was a cast winner and yes the dog got a first place win and no it was not hunted over feeders. Now is this really the dog you want to breed to??? I doubt it, but it sure read good on paper.

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Originally posted by shorecooner
Are you referring to a cast that drew out of Harrington, DE ??

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Originally posted by msinc
What happens in a hunt, how a dog wins can definitely be misleading. I have judged casts where 3 of the four dogs blasted out on a deer, not to be seen again that night. Leaving the fourth pathetic slow dog there to find a coon and tree it. The only one it treed because it took the dog an hour and 50 minutes to get it treed. Yes the dog was a cast winner and yes the dog got a first place win and no it was not hunted over feeders. Now is this really the dog you want to breed to??? I doubt it, but it sure read good on paper.

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Originally posted by RLenhart
Why? did you get a 1st place that night? LOL

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Originally posted by shorecooner
Actually it was a second. But I had a little different perspective on the whole thing. I was hunting a 2yr. old gyp that had enough sense to get away from the other three trashy POS's and do her job. Coons weren't moving, that was plain to see. But she still managed to get hooked and stay hooked for the 5 right by herself under a coon. She'd had enough after the first hour and a half, and so had I to be honest. The night before that, she was on a 4 hr hunt on the DE marsh where she showed us 4 coons. The week after that, in another cast she did the same thing. Other three hi-bred, hi-power POS's blew out on something fast, and she showed us 3 coons that the other dogs didn't know were in the woods. I don't need to make excuses for that little dog, anybody that's ever been in the woods with her knows that she'll tree coons, and do it right by herself most of the time.

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Originally posted by RLenhart
I know and anybody that's been in the woods much at all knows they're not all 950 pt nights. "are they?" "I was just having a little fun with that one"

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Originally posted by RLenhart
I know and anybody that's been in the woods much at all knows they're not all 950 pt nights. "are they?" "I was just having a little fun with that one"

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