UKC Forums - withdrawing

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-- withdrawing (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928418032)

Posted by JiM on 05-15-2015 08:54 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by River Birch Run
You can't start the 8 or 2 If the dog was treed until you walk back two the last place the dog was heard before you walked into score a tree. That has been cover by Allen in the bloodlines.

Go back and read my post again, I stated that if the 8 is broke 6 feet from the tree, you cast the dog 6 feet from the tree. If I'm wrong, show me the rule.
Obviously if the 8 isn't broke, you start it wherever the dogs were last heard.

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Posted by msinc on 05-15-2015 09:14 PM:

"Here's the deal... we're supposed to see what our dogs are capable of doing during a given period of hunting time, meaning the earning of plus and minus points. It's not up to us, to decide when we've achieved a satisfactory amount of plus points! If you have 10 minutes, 20 minutes, etc. then your dog has the potential to earn minus, and you have to give them that opportunity to be fair to all the other casts that hunted the full time."

This pretty much covers the why not in regards to walking out the time ...you have to follow the rules and hunt the full 2 hours or be scratched. In not doing so you cheat the other casts in the hunt that did follow the rules. About a year ago, when I got back into competition hunting I was surprised to learn just how many handlers believe that doing this is O.K.

That aside, to the original question, it is every handlers right to withdraw his dog at anytime he wishes. No one can make him stay in the hunt. I agree with Mike Rosamond that most guys withdraw for the reason he stated...they just don't want to spend another long hour in the woods chasing dogs after you know you cannot win anyways.

Posted by yadkintar on 05-15-2015 09:20 PM:

Sometimes you get in hunting a little to populated cars and people and rather than suggest we move I just bow out !

Posted by Richard Lambert on 05-15-2015 09:24 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by msinc
.....you have to follow the rules.....

I think that everyone would agree with that. The problem is, "just what is/are the "rules". At one time, UKC said that you could not call time out between drops if it wasn't going to take more than 15 minutes. What if a tree is scored and all dogs are leashed and led away. The guide states that you have hunted out the woods on that side of the road and are going to go across the road and turn loose on the other side. It will take 5-10 minutes to walk across the road. Do you call time out? According to what UKC used to say, you don't. If you did, you were hunting more than 2 hours and should be scratched.

Posted by msinc on 05-16-2015 12:59 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
I think that everyone would agree with that. The problem is, "just what is/are the "rules". At one time, UKC said that you could not call time out between drops if it wasn't going to take more than 15 minutes. What if a tree is scored and all dogs are leashed and led away. The guide states that you have hunted out the woods on that side of the road and are going to go across the road and turn loose on the other side. It will take 5-10 minutes to walk across the road. Do you call time out? According to what UKC used to say, you don't. If you did, you were hunting more than 2 hours and should be scratched.

U.K.C. used to say a lot of things...I used to hunt redbones too...Rule 7{C} states, Judge or majority of cast if hunting judge is used, may call time out in accordance with the following, 7{C}: when all dogs are on leash and have been scored.

It does not say shall or must, it says "may" which means that yes you can call time out at that point and do not need further reason to do so. If the dogs are all leashed {handled} and the tree is done being scored then a time out can be called...presumably in the interest of preserving as much hunting time for the dogs as possible. I agree, it didn't used to be that way...you needed an excuse other than just to save time for the actual hunt.
Now, all that said...if you are on a hunt and you know that this rule exist for the benefit of the dogs having more time then you must also conclude that the other cast you are competing with in the hunt will do it too. Why would you not call the time out??? 10 or 15 minutes on say 3 trees saved equates to a half hour or 45 minutes of hunting time. Only plus points can be obtained during hunting time so why waste it.
All that said, there are two kinds of handlers, one realizes that only plus points are obtained during hunting and he wants those precious minutes, all of them. And then we get to type 2...he has a less than stellar dog and he realizes that minus points are probably what he might get during hunt time so he wants to burn as much of it doing nothing as he can.
Bottom line, call the time out if the tree is scored and the dogs are all leashed immediately and save the time for plus points. It no longer matters how long it will take to make your next move.

Posted by jdgher on 05-16-2015 02:48 PM:

Indy 500

Withdrawing vs Sportsmanship: What if at the INDY 500: It's like saying whoever is in the lead at 300 miles, everyone else should just leave the race and let that lone car run by himself the last 200 miles. Or last 100 miles. Is there really some kind of good sportsmanship call to be made here? I don't think there is.
Walking it out vs turning loose again: In most situations if more than 8 minutes remain, then we really should turn loose again. By the way, it is easy enough around here to tree a coon or possum in less than 2 minutes.
Just my opinion.

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Posted by yadkintar on 05-16-2015 02:54 PM:

If your down no chance to win and you want to withdraw 10 minutes left to go got your dog on leash I see nothing wrong with it but always stay a voting working part of the cast to the end jmo!!

Posted by River Birch Run on 05-16-2015 04:04 PM:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by msinc
[B]
All that said, there are two kinds of handlers, one realizes that only plus points are obtained during hunting and he wants those precious minutes, all of them. And then we get to type 2...he has a less than stellar dog and he realizes that minus points are probably what he might get during hunt time so he wants to burn as much of it doing nothing as he can.

All too true! I have been on cast were the judge will stand at the tree and monkey with the card and screw around while letting 5 min run off the clock. Then when he finally calls time out he rounds 40 or 50 more seconds off the clock. This cuts right through me. I use a count down and if I don't judge I always ask if they want me to run the hunt clock. You should see the looks I get when I'm asked how much time is left and I rattle of 15 min and 21 sec. I've also had many guys get ill with me when I say I want to cut my dog loose with 3 min left in the hunt. Where I live I have treed many coon in under 2 min.

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