UKC Forums - Rules Of Fair Chase

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-- Rules Of Fair Chase (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928403016)

Posted by Rocketman55 on 10-03-2015 05:35 PM:

Thank YOU!! msinc, I couldn't agree with you more!!!!

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Posted by yadkintar on 10-03-2015 05:52 PM:

I love a good cold nose , open trailing , track drifting , accurate tree dog that also can drop under a layup coon in an drop of a hat my dogs are bred that way but when I go to a hunt and get last strike on every drop but I get struck 6 or 7 hundred yards right or left handed of all that mess on a coon and they shut up and in 2 seconds they are with my dog ? Oh what do I know I can't help it I am a dummy lol!!!

Posted by msinc on 10-03-2015 08:00 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by sleepy head
I have a couple of tight mouth dogs some nights very tight, if you want to scratch them per the rules, fine, but don't try and tell me its unsportsmanlike for to enter them in a hunt, heck the rules are stacked against them. For damb sure don't tell me its wrong to hunt them for pleasure. Would like to see the rule that says you can't enter tight mouth dogs

Who told you or has said that you cant enter a tight mouth dog???? There is no rule to see for that because there aint one. One of the biggest problems with these forums and discussions like this one is that everyone has a different definition of what they are complaining about.
To me tight mouthed means he either doesn't give a whole lot of mouth or tongue when he runs a track, but he does bark enough to let you know he's on one. That could be two or three bark between strike an tree. Cannot scratch him, he barks on the track...UKC does not say how much he has to bark. Only that he cannot be "continuously silent."
Tight mouthed could also mean that, like one of my dogs, he does not open immediately...he might not open for the first 25-35 yards of the track. Now before everyone jumps on this and says "well then he has to be scratched if the coon pops up!!!!" Maybe, but maybe not...this is why UKC rules say "continuously." Not scratched for one pop up, but every time he has a coon all he does is tree then he gets the hammer {continuous.}. There are probably guys out there that would hunt with your dog sleepyhead and say "he aint tight mouthed at all!!!"
Like when someone says, "how's your wife???"....compared to what????

Posted by sleepy head on 10-03-2015 08:13 PM:

No has said it's against rules to enter a dog that may be still or tight, but it's been suggested that it is unsportsmanlike to enter one or to hunt him at all. That's what gets my blood pressure up

Posted by msinc on 10-03-2015 08:38 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by sleepy head
No has said it's against rules to enter a dog that may be still or tight, but it's been suggested that it is unsportsmanlike to enter one or to hunt him at all. That's what gets my blood pressure up

I understand. This gets back to just what I said about how we all define things differently. The word unsportsmanlike is a double edged sword, or a slippery slope as lawyers would say....
One club that has a lot of coons around the area could put on a hunt with some of the casts turning out on feeders, the cast in the same hunt that didn't have feeders to turn out on came back with the higher score. The place has so many coons that feeders are not an advantage.
Another club 4 states away puts on a hunt with the same scenario...but this area has a very low coon population and the only cast that came in with plus points on the card turned out on buckets all night.
The majority of guys will say the first clubs hunt was not unsportsmanlike. The majority of guys will say the opposite of the second club and then you will have some that will maintain that feeders are unsportsmanlike period no matter how they are used, yet there is not a rule yet against them.
Personally, I train and start puppies with feeders, but I will not use them in a night hunt if I am the guide.
I don't call a tight mouthed dog unsportsmanlike, I call him intelligent. I might not own him if he's too tight, I like to hear a good race, but I aint knockin him. As a matter of fact, I aint knockin a silent dog either, especially if you just want to catch coons...but I have to scratch the truly silent dog in a UKC hunt.

Posted by Aldo nova on 10-04-2015 01:51 PM:

We have bred all the tracking ability out of these hounds.It's not that they are silent it's because they can only smell the scent when it's red hot.They run as hard as they can in a straight line avoiding hitting the brush until they come across a red hot track and fall treed.Ineptitude

Posted by groworg1 on 10-04-2015 02:35 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by sleepy head
No has said it's against rules to enter a dog that may be still or tight, but it's been suggested that it is unsportsmanlike to enter one or to hunt him at all. That's what gets my blood pressure up

read advisor glossary of nite hunt terms page 13 quote "open" the word open in the nite hunts and coon hunting in general, refers to action of dog barking on trail. hounds participating in nite hunts are required to be open trailers, meaning they bark on trail. end quote that's right from the ukc rule book for the rule book the good thing for you is it isn't enforced ! read score card rule 6 e then tell us how its not against the rules !

Posted by yadkintar on 10-04-2015 02:43 PM:

It's just as against the rules to strike and hunt a babbling idiot I don't mind sombody hunting a dog a little tight or even silent against me if I can't beat them them giving me all the strikes I need a different dog those boys with all those loose mouth dogs better hope they don't change back to the old ruling there will be a big bone pile lol!!

Posted by Blusk25 on 10-04-2015 02:52 PM:

Who Cares?

Silent is against the rules and so is babbling. Problem is proving either.Other problem is, most people (including me), don't care either way. We're hunting our dogs and could care less what everyone else's dog is doing.

Posted by sleepy head on 10-04-2015 04:03 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by groworg1
read advisor glossary of nite hunt terms page 13 quote "open" the word open in the nite hunts and coon hunting in general, refers to action of dog barking on trail. hounds participating in nite hunts are required to be open trailers, meaning they bark on trail. end quote that's right from the ukc rule book for the rule book the good thing for you is it isn't enforced ! read score card rule 6 e then tell us how its not against the rules !

Please read pages 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,14,15,16,17

Posted by groworg1 on 10-04-2015 04:37 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by sleepy head
Please read pages 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,14,15,16,17

already did many times you better send and get a new copy as yours is missing page 13 and get a rule book as you haven't read rule 6 (scratching offenses) 6e if a dog is continuously silent on trail

Posted by msinc on 10-04-2015 04:48 PM:

Splitting hairs.....

quote:
Originally posted by groworg1
read advisor glossary of nite hunt terms page 13 quote "open" the word open in the nite hunts and coon hunting in general, refers to action of dog barking on trail. hounds participating in nite hunts are required to be open trailers, meaning they bark on trail. end quote that's right from the ukc rule book for the rule book the good thing for you is it isn't enforced ! read score card rule 6 e then tell us how its not against the rules !

I am not sure why "the good thing for you is it isn't enforced" ????? He said his dog could be "tight mouthed" not silent. There is a big difference. Once again, jumping to conclusions, making up our own set of rules, different definitions.......no where in the definition of "open" does UKC state how many times a dog has to bark. Curious enough, UKC drops the ball on a definition of "silent", there is none listed. We all know what silent is, it's not rocket science...no, as in zero noise.
I would not run out and get a silent dog counting on it "not being enforced."
Now, given the definition of silent and the fact that this man has stated his dog was tight mouthed somebody needs to tell me how it IS against the rules.
Before anyone wants to mince words on this, fair play, fair chase, UKC Nite Hunt Honor....I think we can all agree we are talking the same set of rules here. Nobody likes to split hairs, but sometimes when it comes to rules, you have to.

Maybe another way to look at it is this nite hunt scene back at the club:

MOH: What's the question??

Handler: My dog was scratched for being silent.

MOH to Judge: Did his dog bark on the track????

Judge: Well yeah, once or twice when he first struck.

MOH: Your dog is not scratched.

Posted by shadinc on 10-04-2015 04:53 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by sleepy head
No has said it's against rules to enter a dog that may be still or tight, but it's been suggested that it is unsportsmanlike to enter one or to hunt him at all. That's what gets my blood pressure up

It's not in the rules but, as soon as he's proven silent he will be scratched. So what are you trying to get away with? Are you hoping on this particular night he will bark enough to avoid being scratched? If you know he's silent have enough integrity to leave him home and hunt a dog that complies with the rules. Then your blood pressure can stay in the normal range.

Posted by sleepy head on 10-04-2015 05:04 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
It's not in the rules but, as soon as he's proven silent he will be scratched. So what are you trying to get away with? Are you hoping on this particular night he will bark enough to avoid being scratched? If you know he's silent have enough integrity to leave him home and hunt a dog that complies with the rules. Then your blood pressure can stay in the normal range.

I need a pressure boost sometimes, mine is usually low

Posted by shadinc on 10-04-2015 05:07 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by sleepy head
I need a pressure boost sometimes, mine is usually low

Well hunt your silent dog one night and your babbler the next night and you should live a long healthy life. LOL

Posted by sleepy head on 10-04-2015 05:13 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
Well hunt your silent dog one night and your babbler the next night and you should live a long healthy life. LOL

I can't afford a good babbler, just these tight mouth things

Posted by groworg1 on 10-04-2015 05:23 PM:

when a guy strikes and tree's in one breath his dog sure isn't open on track !

Posted by yadkintar on 10-04-2015 05:33 PM:

It's kind of a thing of the past but if you draw a good layup dog it will happen that way a lot .

Posted by msinc on 10-04-2015 05:41 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by groworg1
when a guy strikes and tree's in one breath his dog sure isn't open on track !

I totally agree and if it happens more than once when I'm the judge....he's scratched.

Posted by GA DAWG on 10-04-2015 06:31 PM:

What if I wait a min to tree it?

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Posted by john Duemmer on 10-04-2015 07:28 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
What if I wait a min to tree it?

Long as the judges dog has time to cover your probably OK.

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Posted by moonshine man on 10-04-2015 09:01 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by sleepy head
No has said it's against rules to enter a dog that may be still or tight, but it's been suggested that it is unsportsmanlike to enter one or to hunt him at all. That's what gets my blood pressure up

I read all these threads where everyone is talking about tight mouthed or silent hounds and i dont know if people is scared of them or what because one time it will be one way and then again another but i do know they was thrown in with the babblers as outcast but a lot of them play by the rules and will lay down the strike and then locate before falling treed with a coon but will get scratched while a babbler slick trees 3 or 4 times but stays in a hunt and thats hard to figure.
This link is the diverse of a silent tight mouthed dog as this thread is.
http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthrea...mp;pagenumber=2

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Posted by GA DAWG on 10-04-2015 10:20 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
Long as the judges dog has time to cover your probably OK.

I'll just strike it in there with the barkers. Makes no difference to me

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Posted by moonshine man on 10-04-2015 11:37 PM:

Re: Scratching

quote:
Originally posted by joe delong
Scratching a silent dog is hard , when the other 3 dogs open together and the handler strikes his silent dog with them,who is to say he never barked.The rules say continuously silent on track,so if he opens one time or gets struck in,he is OK

If you know the game plan it can be done because ive seen 100% silent hounds hunted in hunts just strike them when the others open but the bad thing is that ive also seen hounds that opened on strike and quite few time before they fell treed and got scratched for being silent i think it has a lot to do with where you are and who you are up against and which K.C. you are hunting in at the time.

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