UKC Forums - Coonhound Rules Proposals

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-- Coonhound Rules Proposals (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928331683)

Posted by bdalton09 on 08-07-2013 02:06 PM:

Money

I think it would help increase particpation in UKC events if they had a money payout to the cast winners instead of yellow paper slips. I know UKC has the performance program, and I think that is a step in the right direction, but having a state run off at the end of the year with the dogs with the most money won would be nice too. That would give you something to shoot for throughout the year, trying to make the top 16 or what ever the cut off would be. Just a thought, would be better to say "I have had one of the top 16 dogs in the state for a whole year and a chance for the title of State Champion", instead of saying" I had the best dog in the state Friday and Saturday night", I. As for the rule change I say "Change them, we will adjust".

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Posted by pigsit on 08-07-2013 02:25 PM:

Re: Spectators

quote:
Originally posted by kayapellijed390
So glad to see this rule finally brought up for a vote. I see this rule as the most commonly ignored rule anyways so might as well change it.

This rule isn't ignored on the casts I hunt in, if you don't pay an entry fee, you don't shine. Tom

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Posted by T Felderman on 08-07-2013 02:33 PM:

I think all spectators should be allowed to shine as long as they follow the rules and the handlers are responsible for them.

Everyone wants to increase participation, let the kids and begginers shine so they feel somewhat part of the hunt.

Posted by kayapellijed390 on 08-07-2013 03:01 PM:

I understand how in some situations you may not want a spectator to shine, like an adult and his spectator buddy has a 5 million candlepower spot light strapped to his side at a zone hunt. That is the beauty of this rule change proposal. It says as long as all cast members agree. If one guy doesn't want spectators shining then they can't. It leaves it up to the discretion of the cast. So the next time an eight year old kid is tagging along with dad with his kitten cooner on a local club hunt he can be allowed to shine, no big deal, like it should be. Any of you who are so against this have the option to deny spectators from shining. Seems pretty simple to me.

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Posted by HOBO on 08-07-2013 03:58 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Lance Laymon
If you like PKC rules better hunt Pkc leave UKC rules alone.

Well said!!

Just how often are you guys seeing a dog cover another after a min or more has pasted? I know it happens a few times but for the most part I've not seen it take that long to happen.

Everyone tries to blame the 125 for first tree for all of the slick treeing that goes on now. What will the tree count down rule do to the breeds? They are already getting to the point that they won't pack hunt, which is what the rules were set up for to start with....

The whole ideal behind the nite hunt was to see who had the best dog out of a cast of 4 dogs. Who had the best strike dog and the dog that could take that track and tree the coon ahead of the other dogs... NOT how many trees cany dog get to itself on a two hour hunt.

What's next? One dog cast?

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Posted by WEBBER on 08-07-2013 07:50 PM:

My 2 cents worth......Comments to some of the rule proposals that I don't fully agree with. Feel free to disagree.

Rule 2. POINT SYTEM:
1.) (((Not fond of the countdown, I like the fact that UKC is different.)))

Rule 4. POINTS WILL BE MINUS:

2.) (((One of the worse proposals, “regardless of how tree is scored” WOW the option to recast rule will be for nothing, long walks to a tree allows for more late comers, will cause more tree calls to be pitched, the list goes on & on)))

Rule 5. CIRCLED AND DELETED POINTS:

4.) (((If it ain’t broke, why fix it? Circle was just fine)))

Rule 6. DOGS WILL BE SCRATCHED:

6.) (((I agree with JIM, the worse rule proposal ever. Well maybe not ever, but will definitely be misused. So many things could be considered aggressive)))

8.) (((Wasn’t real clear before on when to call time, still not clear as mud. sounds as if you can call time on the way to first dog treed if you're not there in 10)))

Rule 16. TIES:

11.) (((That’s crazy, “first” tree points, how about just tree points)))

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Posted by john Duemmer on 08-07-2013 07:50 PM:

3 of them i would like to see pass.
The tree countdown because i believe it provides the best coondog with the cast win a higher percentage of the time.
The second would be giveing the cast the option to score trees out of order when all dogs are treed because it saves time and keeps dogs from haveing to tree as long in the summer heat thus giving the best coondog the cast win a higher percentage of the time.
And third allow spectators to shine if all cast members agree, if the coon is there the dog should get credit and all the lights in the world wont find a coon that isnt there. I hunt alot of $kc where its legal and have never seen a problem.

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Posted by pigsit on 08-07-2013 08:01 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
As it should be. Reward the coon treeing dog. Not the hitch hiker that gets there s min late. If its that slow on track. It does not even deserve the 50.

Here's the thing, the more emphasis you place on the "tree dog" the more still mouth dogs, tight mouth dogs and dogs with less tracking ability will emerge. Oh yeah, the babbler as well; the dog can't track, but he makes a lot of noise, and can cover yours in a heart beat. I think we need to keep the tree system as is and breed for the complete hound, one that can strike, track his way to the tree, locate and be ACCURATE. Tom

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Posted by john Duemmer on 08-07-2013 08:33 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by pigsit
Here's the thing, the more emphasis you place on the "tree dog" the more still mouth dogs, tight mouth dogs and dogs with less tracking ability will emerge. Oh yeah, the babbler as well; the dog can't track, but he makes a lot of noise, and can cover yours in a heart beat. I think we need to keep the tree system as is and breed for the complete hound, one that can strike, track his way to the tree, locate and be ACCURATE. Tom

I guess i would disagree, the countdown only rewards the first dog thats under the coon, that should be the best track dog right?
As far as breeding for a strike dog, im afraid that ship has sailed.... An honest strike dog will never outstrike a babbler but punishing the babbler for covering will help.

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Posted by Jason Reisert on 08-07-2013 09:00 PM:

squalling

I had hoped that being able to squall as soon as shining time started instead of waiting seven min. I only find a coon or two a year after shining seven min.

Posted by Robert Johnson on 08-07-2013 09:27 PM:

Re: robert

quote:
Originally posted by tsizemore
if you had an old time coondog that had the coon you would like someone else seeing a coon for you no more circle tree would be the best new law and the only new law allowed in ukc

so you think, and yes if they was fair enough to see it for you, but real world says that don't happen much, and i hunt as much or more than most

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Posted by Robert Johnson on 08-07-2013 09:30 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by H&H Blueticks
I would like to see Pkc tree rules in the ukc hunts

would be the end of a great organization and forced ukc to have more and more trouble at their hunts. pkc has a place, but not in ukc hunts. leave it seperated and we'll all be better off for it

Posted by Allen / UKC on 08-07-2013 09:52 PM:

I've now added the missing prop. Should generate a little discussion. I kinda like it because it takes a rule that was for the most part hardly ever implemented because of one word that created a grey area.

Posted by SmokyMtWrangler on 08-07-2013 10:05 PM:

Hopefully the countdown passes me too dogs need to be a thing of the past.

Posted by groworg1 on 08-07-2013 10:56 PM:

allen/ukc that would be real change !

Posted by patches9452 on 08-08-2013 12:51 AM:

well at least with a tree countdown my dog come in treeing after the five im only good for 25 on the tree lol... or if I think its a bad tree I cannot tree and still just get awarded 25

Posted by bigdiezel79 on 08-08-2013 01:00 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by CentralTn
I guess i would disagree, the countdown only rewards the first dog thats under the coon, that should be the best track dog right?
As far as breeding for a strike dog, im afraid that ship has sailed.... An honest strike dog will never outstrike a babbler but punishing the babbler for covering .will help.

X2

Very well put bud. The tree countdown is a good thing it doesnt promote loaners it awards the best dog in my opinoin. Like the fella above said the first dog to the tree would be the nest track dog also. Maybe its just me but I have been on many hunts where the second tree comes in after 2 mins...

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Posted by JiM on 08-08-2013 01:13 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Allen / UKC
I've now added the missing prop. Should generate a little discussion. I kinda like it because it takes a rule that was for the most part hardly ever implemented because of one word that created a grey area.

The only thing that will ever fix that rule would be to eliminate it altogether. A dead silent dog gets punished enough by taking last strike every time the dogs are cast. That's not enough, you gotta scratch them too?
I don't like any rule that scratches a dog for it's hunting style. What's next? Scratch any dog that won't hunt as a pack?

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Posted by JiM on 08-08-2013 01:18 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by bigdiezel79
Very well put bud. The tree countdown is a good thing it doesnt promote loaners it awards the best dog in my opinoin. Like the fella above said the first dog to the tree would be the nest track dog also. Maybe its just me but I have been on many hunts where the second tree comes in after 2 mins...

I agree. The tree countdown doesn't promote anything, it simply rewards the dog the most that deserves it the most and proportionally less as they do less. A dog that shows up 2 minutes after the coon gets treed has done very little and is basically getting 25 tree points for nothing more than being able to find a dog that is treed.

Posted by Rocketman55 on 08-08-2013 01:56 AM:

"Dead Silent dogs get punished enough", give me a break!! That's like saying its ok to pull up a seat at the bar, and then when the guy on the next stool turns his head to look at a lil scenery, its ok to just blast him in the mouth, knocking him cold stiff, and calling that a fair fight and declare you the winner.

Not what I call giving coon or man a fair chance!! its deceitful, and underhanded, and should not be tolerated, let alone rewarded.

Silent is a scratchable offense because it is cheating the coon out of the opportunity to escape.

Leave this rule alone and enforce it!! JMO!!

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Posted by john Duemmer on 08-08-2013 02:03 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
3 of them i would like to see pass.
The tree countdown because i believe it provides the best coondog with the cast win a higher percentage of the time.
The second would be giveing the cast the option to score trees out of order when all dogs are treed because it saves time and keeps dogs from haveing to tree as long in the summer heat thus giving the best coondog the cast win a higher percentage of the time.
And third allow spectators to shine if all cast members agree, if the coon is there the dog should get credit and all the lights in the world wont find a coon that isnt there. I hunt alot of $kc where its legal and have never seen a problem.

What i cant help but wonder is how many of the folks that will vote on these proposals and ultimatly decide what rules we hunt under are guys that are active competition hunters?

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Posted by Billy George on 08-08-2013 02:51 AM:

All of the Black and Tan guy are active hunters,and represent the breed well...

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Posted by GA DAWG on 08-08-2013 02:53 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by HOBO
Well said!!

Just how often are you guys seeing a dog cover another after a min or more has pasted? I know it happens a few times but for the most part I've not seen it take that long to happen

How many hunts you hunted lately? I see it happen every hunt. Usually on more than one tree. Not saying the coverers win. Seems like they don't really wanna cover but can't stand the pressure and then have to. Im not kidding. Its every hunt almost.

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Posted by JiM on 08-08-2013 03:07 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Rocketman55
"Dead Silent dogs get punished enough", give me a break!! That's like saying its ok to pull up a seat at the bar, and then when the guy on the next stool turns his head to look at a lil scenery, its ok to just blast him in the mouth, knocking him cold stiff, and calling that a fair fight and declare you the winner.

Not what I call giving coon or man a fair chance!! its deceitful, and underhanded, and should not be tolerated, let alone rewarded.

Silent is a scratchable offense because it is cheating the coon out of the opportunity to escape.

Leave this rule alone and enforce it!! JMO!!

Well, I gotta say, I have seen some really stupid analogies on here over the years but that one stands all alone. Congrats Dave, you are on top of the world with that one.

Posted by GA DAWG on 08-08-2013 03:13 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Well, I gotta say, I have seen some really stupid analogies on here over the years but that one stands all alone. Congrats Dave, you are on top of the world with that one.

Was he talking about silent dogs or tree jacking? Need a rule about tree jacking. Trouble making son of a guns. That's who needs scratched. Not the little tight mouthed dog.

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