UKC Forums - Is it time for a change in titling procedure?

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-- Is it time for a change in titling procedure? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928307066)

Posted by PATSCDOG on 03-12-2013 03:48 PM:

TO PROVE A POINT

I DON'T KNOW THE RIGHT OR WRONG WITH THE SYSTEM NOW BUT DO AGREE THAT IT'S GOT IT'S HOLES. I HAD A YOUNG MAN NEW TO HUNTING AND ALL HE WANTED IS TO HAVE A TITLED DOG. HE HAD A NOTHING DOG ME TO ER ALL THE WAY COULD'NT TREE A COON IN BARN YRD . IN LESS THAN SIX MONTHS I NITE CH HIS DOG OUT FOR PROOF TO HIM THAT PAPER IS PAPER AND COON DOGS ARE COON DOGS. THE DOG DIED THE SAME AS HE STARTED WORTHLESS,,,,, I THINK WE'RE MAKING BETTER HANDLERS THAN WE ARE DOGS..

Posted by jackbob42 on 03-12-2013 04:46 PM:

When are folks gonna learn......
There's not a rule that can be written that the dishonest won't find a way around .

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Posted by Bob Hennessey on 03-12-2013 04:56 PM:

Is it time for a change in titling procedure?

NO! That was simple.

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Posted by cody jaster on 03-12-2013 06:06 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by CHRIS SUTTON
Best idea and easiest solution! thinking about sending this proposal to all the Breed associations and try to get them to present this to UKC?

Good luck on that! I haven't seen ANY HTX hunts anywhere near 200 miles from me. The nearest club hunt anytime is over 100 miles yet I have (and others down here) have made plenty of Gr Nites and Nites. I don't think thoughs hounds are inferior to your HTX. I hope that idea you have gets shot down completely.

Posted by Bullet on 03-12-2013 06:45 PM:

If the rule change went into effect then the local clubs would have the HTX hunts. If you were active at your local clubs' meetings then you could make a motion to have HTX hunts.

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Posted by cody jaster on 03-12-2013 07:19 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Bullet
If the rule change went into effect then the local clubs would have the HTX hunts. If you were active at your local clubs' meetings then you could make a motion to have HTX hunts.

I've been active in club hunts for 30 years and I can't see that happening at all! Frankly, I can't speak for others, but I could care less about the HTX title. I do like the GR nite title and the competition that goes toward making it. As for HTX every dog I have ever owned could be HTX for that matter. They all are hunted exclusively by themselves and tree coon consistently. AKA...HTX dog, that why I couldn't give a rats rear end about it. But hey, that's just me! Again, nobody has HTX hunts Down here and it's probably because they don't care about them either.

Posted by truly on 03-12-2013 07:47 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by longshot
My vote is NO Change to UKC titles. It's a long tradition and proven system... Gas is to high anyway to travel twice as much to title a dog...

The most important thing to know about titles is WHO and HOW they made them.. That makes all the difference and is what really matters.

quote:
Originally posted by The Seeker
Is it time for a change in titling procedure?

NO! That was simple.

I agree.
Folks who have never been involved in competition hunting generally don't quite grasp the true meaning of "NiteCh" and GrNiteCh" titles. They often over value or under value these titles, thinking GrNiteCh title means the dog is something perfect in every way, or just as likely that it means that dog is no good and just got handled to a title. Those who do engage in comp hunting get a sense of just how hard, or easy it is to title a dog. We know what the title means, and what it doesn't. Changing the requirements to earn a title will not change whether a person understands and appreciates what those titles mean. Those who get it still will, and those who don't still won't.
And changing the requirements may devalue current titles, or future titles. You can just hear someone saying "well that title don't mean nothing cause they earned it under the new/old rules". Just like today folks say that new comer don't appreciate how much harder it used to be to title a dog when hunts were bigger. Hunts will change as the years go by, and vary regionally around the country, but requirements to earn a title should stay the same so that we can view those titles with as much consistency as possible.

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Posted by T Stevens on 03-12-2013 08:25 PM:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bullet
I've said it once and I'll say it again. If you want to improve the quality of titled hounds then change the rules that in order to get a Nite Ch or GrNtCh title your dog must have the HTX title. This should all but eliminate "me too" dogs with titles. It is a simple fix. [/QUOTE

x2]

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Posted by CHRIS SUTTON on 03-12-2013 10:14 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by cody jaster
Good luck on that! I haven't seen ANY HTX hunts anywhere near 200 miles from me. The nearest club hunt anytime is over 100 miles yet I have (and others down here) have made plenty of Gr Nites and Nites. I don't think thoughs hounds are inferior to your HTX. I hope that idea you have gets shot down completely.

First thing first......if it were manditory to show your dog could pass a HTX your clubs would start having them. Secondly, people that would disagree with having to pass a HTX before degrees would be awarded are kidding themselves about the quality of dog at the end of their lead strap!! Not saying it would be empleminted by UKC, just because of the number of dogs that cant pass a HTX............

Posted by cody jaster on 03-12-2013 10:24 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by CHRIS SUTTON
First thing first......if it were manditory to show your dog could pass a HTX your clubs would start having them. Secondly, people that would disagree with having to pass a HTX before degrees would be awarded are kidding themselves about the quality of dog at the end of their lead strap!! Not saying it would be empleminted by UKC, just because of the number of dogs that cant pass a HTX............

I don't care about their dogs... They re the one feeding them. You shouldn't have any trouble beating them if they are not that good! UKC is NOT going to change anything anyway so really this is a a Bogus conversation. If you really want to change something I think a dog should have a cast win before it can be considered to show on the bench. Pretty is is pretty does! Way too many pretty gr sh ch out there that are completely worthless as a hunting dog. The founders (of days gone by) or shall I say hunters of the hound breeds would roll over in their graves to think worthless mutts are being used for showing instead of hunting. that is something to use your time wisely for. Now they will delete this post for me saying that!!!

Posted by bounce1 on 03-15-2013 01:26 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by CHRIS SUTTON
I've always felt there should be one more step in finishing into a GR.NT. I feel that you should have to hunt your dog by itself and tree a coon and stay the 5 at a minimum! Maybe even have an hr hunt with a non hunting judge and have plus points.

amen

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Posted by pigman816 on 03-15-2013 07:28 PM:

How bout an HTX degree prior to being able to be hunted in an open registered. Why not make sure a dog can and will tree a coon before they are allowed to compete? Other ideas are good too, just like the idea of and HTX

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Posted by patches9452 on 03-15-2013 08:05 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by pigman816
How bout an HTX degree prior to being able to be hunted in an open registered. Why not make sure a dog can and will tree a coon before they are allowed to compete? Other ideas are good too, just like the idea of and HTX

i do my own htx before i enter into a hunt....why should i have to pay ukc plus spend my time and money proving my dog can do something by itself to win a competition sport... nobody should be reqired to do a htx.... if they beat you with a dog that cant pass one suck it up and deal with it or get you a better hound

Posted by pigman816 on 03-15-2013 09:14 PM:

time of the month?

Is today every body have a period day on this board or what? I said, my opinion, I can have one of those, right? Other good ideas, I see you piggy backing others, whats your idea? Chill out!.....And by the way, Ive got a hound that CAN AND WILL tree coon. Bring your best, your boots and some money. If I get beat by a me too dog, and I have, its because someone brought junk to a hunt and I got out handled. I expect a smart ass come back, but I do not expect you to actually show up and back up your mouth. Enjoy your day.

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Posted by patches9452 on 03-15-2013 09:37 PM:

Re: time of the month?

quote:
Originally posted by pigman816
Is today every body have a period day on this board or what? I said, my opinion, I can have one of those, right? Other good ideas, I see you piggy backing others, whats your idea? Chill out!.....And by the way, Ive got a hound that CAN AND WILL tree coon. Bring your best, your boots and some money. If I get beat by a me too dog, and I have, its because someone brought junk to a hunt and I got out handled. I expect a smart ass come back, but I do not expect you to actually show up and back up your mouth. Enjoy your day.

if you are refering to me with your comments.... i have an opinion also and stated it... just because mine happens to be different from yours im guessing you took offense.... how much money you wanna put up and i will meet you half way this weekend... i may loose but i promise i aint scared... i got a couple hundred i can blow and not miss it to bad

Posted by pigman816 on 03-15-2013 09:46 PM:

PATCHES

Thats great, bud! Not many got nuts enough to stand on what they said. I respect that, alot! You seemed to get bitter about the HTX. I was just giving my opinion. If I read you wrong, thats my fault, but Im pretty sure that you said, 'get a better dog'. Now, why would you say that? It didnt make any sense? Again, Ive got nothing to hide, plenty of room, and food. Come on up, make it a weekend. Win or lose, we will be in some coon, and have a good time. Thats what its all about! However, unfortunately, I dont have the money to spend in gas to drive half way on a wim. Sure do wish I did! Id buy an extra Garmin collar. For the record, your opinion of the HTX is noted and respected, whether I agree or not. ....Jim

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Posted by truly on 03-15-2013 11:48 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by patches9452
i do my own htx before i enter into a hunt....

well said.

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Posted by patches9452 on 03-16-2013 01:46 AM:

Re: PATCHES

quote:
Originally posted by pigman816
Thats great, bud! Not many got nuts enough to stand on what they said. I respect that, alot! You seemed to get bitter about the HTX. I was just giving my opinion. If I read you wrong, thats my fault, but Im pretty sure that you said, 'get a better dog'. Now, why would you say that? It didnt make any sense? Again, Ive got nothing to hide, plenty of room, and food. Come on up, make it a weekend. Win or lose, we will be in some coon, and have a good time. Thats what its all about! However, unfortunately, I dont have the money to spend in gas to drive half way on a wim. Sure do wish I did! Id buy an extra Garmin collar. For the record, your opinion of the HTX is noted and respected, whether I agree or not. ....Jim

jim maybe i came off wrong and if i did i apoligize.... i think the htx is great for the people who want to do it... i dont think it should be a requirement for some other title

Posted by Mtn Hunter on 03-16-2013 03:26 AM:

This is real simple. Require a dog to get the HTX degree along with completeing the Nite Ch requirements to be a Nite Ch. Presto no more guys saying Nite ch cant tree a coon by theirself. More clubs would have HTX hunts. If you didnt want to competition hunt you could still get the HTX degree. A dog could enter a HTX hunt on Fri night and then enter a nite hunt the next. More entries equal more money for clubs. More hunts equal greater club member participation in clubs and more money for UKC its a win win and I dont see why its not been done already.

If you want to go a step farther, do away with the point system and require a dog to win 5 casts with plus points to be Nite Ch and 5 cast wins in the Nite ch. category to be Gr. Nite. No more relying on feeders to get a score. Just beat the dogs you are with on one coon or twenty. If something is harder to get it means more. I believe with todays low entries it would be harder to get five cast wins than it would be to get a first and a couple of seconds. Once again entries would go up.

Posted by pigman816 on 03-16-2013 03:54 AM:

Re: Re: PATCHES

quote:
Originally posted by patches9452
jim maybe i came off wrong and if i did i apoligize.... i think the htx is great for the people who want to do it... i dont think it should be a requirement for some other title

My apologies as well, sir. Whatever UKC does/doesnt do, their will still be those who want it tweaked somehow. Whatever the answer, I probably dont have it. LOL....Happy hunting to all....Jim Harper

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