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Re: Re: What Will You Do Judge?

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Originally posted by JiM
Nowhere does it say Dog D was ever struck, in fact, Allen specifically states the dog was not struck in on the card. The shutout rule only applies to dogs that are struck so that rule does not even come into play in this situation. The only rule that applies is rule 4(j) and if another 3 barks go by with the dog unstruck, then 6(e) comes in.

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IMO, I would consider 20yds and the light on the dogs as arriving at the tree. If me as a judge and the handlers of dogs B and C did not realize a 4th dog was barking before this point then shame on us and dog D just got away with one. With that being said my answer is to handle all dogs and score the tree accordingly.

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Enjoy this post, need more questions like this, but sounds like alot of different opinions, But rules state dogs must be struck on or before 3rd bark true but dog is at tree and evidently could not be heard but see him walking in, so what I'm reading is dog must be struck even if wasn't struck before 1st dog treed? even if points will be deleted and he will take next position on slick or off game on tree points? Right? Man all I can say after reading all this is we walk in and I see my dog there and hasn't been struck and he is barking I'll just strike him and save alot of questions on how to handle it, LOL! GOOD POST

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If I changed my mind as I was typing. If I am in a position to determine what dogs are showing tree then I consider that I have arrived at the tree. So I am going to tell everyone to handle their dogs and score the tree. Look at it this way if your ten yards have told everyone to handle their dogs before anyone handles a dog,dog d comes in and starts treeing your not going to make him strike him. I think if your in a position to determine that all dogs are treed then you have arrived at the tree.

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closed tree

Rule 3d dog can not recieve plus or minus strike points if he is not on trail when first dog is declared treed unless treed on separate trees.However he recieves tree points if he's treed within 5 minutes.
Rule 4d if dog declared treed,after 5 minutes has elapsed no additional dog can be declared treed at that particular tree.But if they come into tree will get minus on track and nothing on tree if coon is seen.
I believe these rules should come into play.You still have to strike and tree your dog.
This has happened to me and my strike points were deleted and no tree points awarded Because tree was closed.
Kinda confusing when 3d says strike points can't be miused and 4d says delete track CLOSED TREE KEY WORD

The point of this scenario is to, in the end, plant one specific seed in the memory bank. A very simple seed that I think will help eliminate confusion in such situations as the scenario described. But first....

By throwing a "shut out on tree" situation into the scenario it tends to create confusion in the woods just like it does on this message board. Regardless, ok so you have two parts here if that's what you see. But I only asked for "your next move" which is part 1. Didn't ask for anything beyond that. Trick question? Not trying to be but by adding the tree into the equation you might consider it "trickery". The fact is; this scenario is not that uncommon.

In my scenario I would like you, as the judge when you realized prior to handling any dogs, to recognize that you have a dog opening (more than three times) that has not been declared struck. Further, I'd like to see you take the tree totally out of the equation so that you can make the correct call.

In my scenario the judge was twenty yards from the tree when he first realized their was a dog opening/treeing (to be clear had already opened more than three times) that was had not yet been declared struck. Let's use the same exact scenario but move the stick back to 200 yards from the tree when you first hear Dog D. Does that change things for you? I bet it does. What's the difference? Point is; there is no difference.


Rule 4(j) is very specific in that {First offense failure to strike a dog on or before the thrid bark, after the first minute each time dog(s) is released, will result in those points being awarded and minused.}

Finally, here's the seed to plant in the memory bank.
When it comes to declaring dogs struck, the only time a dog is no longer accountable for his barks is when the dog is handled (on lead). Any other time they are accountable and MUST be declared struck on or before the third bark (after the minute of having been released). This little bit of valuable information should make it a whole lot easier to score any such situations correctly. It gives you a specific point.

In the scenario given, scoring the tree becomes part two of the situation. But it really has nothing to do with "what is your next move". Your next move should have been to award 25 strike points to Dog D and minus them.

As far as scoring the tree.... have at it. That wasn't my question.

We greatly appreciate all of those judges who are interested in better educating themselves to be the best they can be when called upon. May all your calls be good ones this weekend.

That was my point! He has to be handled before anything can be deleted. It was also my point a few months ago about dogs that had returned to the same tree and were declared as treed. Then leave before they are handled I said they were minused and about got cussed out for being so ignorant. I never seen the outcome of that was I wrong or right?

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So after first offence of not striking the dog then could be scratched on second offence of not striking the dog?

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quote:

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Originally posted by joey
That was my point! He has to be handled before anything can be deleted. It was also my point a few months ago about dogs that had returned to the same tree and were declared as treed. Then leave before they are handled I said they were minused and about got cussed out for being so ignorant. I never seen the outcome of that was I wrong or right?

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