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-- question about Chritianity (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928300201)
quote:I agree a hundred percent thats why we have the holy spirit to lead us in the path of righteousness and we not only should see the fruit but our spirits will bear witness with each other
Originally posted by Harley Smith
I agree. We benifit from all that he did not only at the cross and after but before also. He fulfilled all righteousness, so what I'm saying is if our faith is in him, his spirit in us will produce the works you speak of. So to prove that my faith is in him you should see fruit in my life. And if you are saved I should see fruit in your life not. Love , joy , peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self control . All of these are what God desires for his children to be, because there is a hungry world. And until the church understands we can't produce these things apart from him, we have nothing to offer the hungry but more condemnation, and death.
__________________
brian pack
Re: Re: Re: there is
quote:
Originally posted by vernonsdream
Can you show me where in the bible is says you must do the sinners prayer to be saved? Or that a confession is needed? The only confession needed is to confess that Jesus is Lord (Romans 10:9).
How are
Repentance and confession works?
Faith and works
James 2:17.26
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
__________________
Well Stanley,this looks like another fine mess you've gotten us into 
Ray Hudson
John 6:28-29
Then they asked him, what must we do to do the works that God requires? Jesus answered ,the work of God is this, to believe in the one he sent.
__________________
HOME OF
pr' Dixie's Heaven on Earth
(Turpins Insane Cain X Jacksons Magic Dixie) (walker)
BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST AND THOW SHALT BE SAVED........
__________________
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Re: Faith and works
quote:"Rightly Divide" 2 Tim. 2:15. The book of James is not written to the "CHURCH"{Body of Christ} James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the "twelve tribes"{Jewish-Faith and Works, Tribulation Jews} which are scattered abroad, greetings. KJV AV [Quotations and Brackets mine]
Originally posted by Ray&Luie
James 2:17.26
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Re: Re: Re: there is
quote:do u believe u do not sin? do u not believe God wants you to confess our sins?
Originally posted by vernonsdream
Can you show me where in the bible is says you must do the sinners prayer to be saved? Or that a confession is needed? The only confession needed is to confess that Jesus is Lord (Romans 10:9).
__________________
on fire/tree dogs
Re: Re: Re: Re: there is
quote:
Originally posted by steve pickett
do u believe u do not sin? do u not believe God wants you to confess our sins?
read Romans3 v23-For all have sinned,and come short of the glory of God:
read Romans ch.6 God wants us to turn away from our sinfull ways and serve him...
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: there is
quote:I BELIEVE IF WE ARE UNDER CONVICTION FROM GOD WE WILL ASK HIM TO FORGIVE US OF OUR SINS AND TO SAVE US -GOD WILL SAVE US.THEN WE WILL WANT TO DO HIS WORKS.WE ARE SAVED FIRST- WORKS WILL NOT SAVE US BUT WE WILL WANT TO DO HIS WORKS BECAUSE OF OUR SALVATION...GOD DOES NOT WAIT ON US TO CLEAN OUR ACT UP AND TO WORK FOR HIM FOR US TO BE SAVED,HOW MUCH WORK DO WE NEED TO DO IT CANNOT BE MEASURED FOR SALVATION,GOD TAKES US AS WE ARE THEN CLEANS US UP (WE SHOULD CHANGE OUR THOUGHTS AND WAY OF DOING IF WE ARE TRULEY SAVED) THEN HE DOES WANT US TO DO HIS WORK AS WE SHOULD WANT TO AS WELL....
Originally posted by casey brown
That is works.
It seems no one can answer the straight question of whether physical works are involved in salvation or not. Most say no, and then turn around and quote Romans which strongly advocates physical works for salvation. I know I am playing devil's advocate, but we need a consistent balance and the doctrine of faith only leaves out personal responsibility to live holy. I am assuming Mr. Pickett that you believe works/obedience to live holy is necessary for salvation?
__________________
on fire/tree dogs
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: there is
quote:
Originally posted by steve pickett
I BELIEVE IF WE ARE UNDER CONVICTION FROM GOD WE WILL ASK HIM TO FORGIVE US OF OUR SINS AND TO SAVE US -GOD WILL SAVE US.THEN WE WILL WANT TO DO HIS WORKS.WE ARE SAVED FIRST- WORKS WILL NOT SAVE US BUT WE WILL WANT TO DO HIS WORKS BECAUSE OF OUR SALVATION...GOD DOES NOT WAIT ON US TO CLEAN OUR ACT UP AND TO WORK FOR HIM FOR US TO BE SAVED,HOW MUCH WORK DO WE NEED TO DO IT CANNOT BE MEASURED FOR SALVATION,GOD TAKES US AS WE ARE THEN CLEANS US UP (WE SHOULD CHANGE OUR THOUGHTS AND WAY OF DOING IF WE ARE TRULEY SAVED) THEN HE DOES WANT US TO DO HIS WORK AS WE SHOULD WANT TO AS WELL....
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: there is
quote:I know your questions aren't addressed to me,but, let me ask you this. Have you ever studied the Salvation Doctrines{Soteriology}? Justification, Redemption, Propitiation,, Remission, Expiation, Imputation, Regeneration, Reconciliation, Spiritual Circumcision, Adoption, Sanctification, and Glorification. You will find these words in the book of Romans Chapter 3 and on. I know a lot of people will not study these words because they will have to change the crowd they hang around with. Not trying to start a "racket", but this is sound Doctrine.
Originally posted by casey brown
Ok I see your point. So what if someone gets saved and then later on ceases to do the works that salvation produces, are they still saved? Have they not lost faith in Christ? When faith in Christ is lost is someone still saved?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: there is
quote:JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT DOING THE WORKS THAT U CAN SEE DOESN'T THEY DON'T BELIEVE.AND YES THEY ARE STILL SAVED,I BELIEVE IF YOU ARE ONCE SAVED U CANNOT BECOME LOST AGAIN.WE MAY STRAY AWAY FROM GOD BUT GOD NEVER LEAVES US AND WILL NOT FORSAKE US,WE ARE LIKE THE PROTICAL SON TO GOD WHO WENT BACK HOME HE IS THERE TO TAKE US BACK LIKE OUR EARTHLY FATHER.
Originally posted by casey brown
Ok I see your point. So what if someone gets saved and then later on ceases to do the works that salvation produces, are they still saved? Have they not lost faith in Christ? When faith in Christ is lost is someone still saved?
__________________
on fire/tree dogs
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: there is
quote:
Originally posted by steve pickett
JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT DOING THE WORKS THAT U CAN SEE DOESN'T THEY DON'T BELIEVE.AND YES THEY ARE STILL SAVED,I BELIEVE IF YOU ARE ONCE SAVED U CANNOT BECOME LOST AGAIN.WE MAY STRAY AWAY FROM GOD BUT GOD NEVER LEAVES US AND WILL NOT FORSAKE US,WE ARE LIKE THE PROTICAL SON TO GOD WHO WENT BACK HOME HE IS THERE TO TAKE US BACK LIKE OUR EARTHLY FATHER.
Just suppose
I must admit I havent read all the post on this thread but I would like to give points to consider.
1. If the word of God is a two edge sword wouldnt benefit both Pastor and Listener to both Grace and Law (Mt. Transfiguration both are present) in a well blended sermon
2. If we did nothing to recieve salvation except believe wouldnt we have to stop believeing to lose it .
3. Also how can we lose what is not ours to give , if we say we can lose the price and blood payed at Calvary doesnt Christ 4need to return an clear a better path.
4. My word says it is finished and I choose to trust Christ , we are saved by Grace through Faith so no can boast
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: there is
quote:YES, WE LOOSE FAITH IN EACH OTHER,DO U THINK GOD DOESN'T THINK WE AS HUMANS WILL NOT LOOSE OUR FAITH(NOT OUR SALVATION) SOMETIMES.SOMETIMES I WONDER IF MY PRAYERS ARE HEARD(LOOSE MY FAITH) BUT I REALLY KNOW HE HEARS THEM.WE NEED TO BE PATIENT AND WAIT ON THE GOD HE WILL FULFILL HIS PROMISES.
Originally posted by casey brown
Even if they have lost all faith in Christ they are still saved?
__________________
on fire/tree dogs
quote:
Originally posted by casey brown
Even if they have lost all faith in Christ they are still saved?
Have a good day Casey.__________________
Mark Reavis
Southwest Missouri
Dual Grand Champion Super Sambo
quote:
Originally posted by longshot
Moses Lost Faith
Elijah Lost Faith
Peter Lost faith
Heck, most of the Isralites lost faith at one time or another and the Apostles too..
BUT NONE OF THEM LOST SALVATION ONCE IT WAS OBTAINED.
Casey its obvious from all the other post that we've debated that you and I just flat don't agree on Eternal Security of the believer. I'm guessing but you prolly come from a Pentecostal Background ( or similar) ?
I believe it's a very important issue but it's ok that we don't agree. I can see that you're not changing your mind and I SURE AIN'T changing mine..
PS.... I'll see ya in Gloryland someday.... ( where I'll lean over and whisper in your ear , "see I told ya so ")...
Re: Re: Faith and works
quote:
Originally posted by Barry Franklin
"Rightly Divide" 2 Tim. 2:15. The book of James is not written to the "CHURCH"{Body of Christ} James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the "twelve tribes"{Jewish-Faith and Works, Tribulation Jews} which are scattered abroad, greetings. KJV AV [Quotations and Brackets mine]
__________________
Well Stanley,this looks like another fine mess you've gotten us into
Ray Hudson
Re: Re: Re: Faith and works
quote:Sir, you are not "rightly dividing the word of truth" if you try to "Spiritualize" the book of James. I'm not throwing anything out. If you will get your hackles down and "study to show thyself approved", you will learn every verse of scripture has three applications, Doctrinal, Historical, and Spiritual. James 1:1, Are you one of or part of the Twelve Tribes?
Originally posted by Ray&Luie
Uh, you are joking right ?
then throw out every thing james says cause it written only to they Jews ? now whos rightly dividing ?
Galatians 3:28
King James Version (KJV)
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Colossians 3:11
King James Version (KJV)
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
quote:So, the Blood Sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ, is not sufficient to save{past tense}, or keep you?
Originally posted by casey brown
You know if we see each other in heaven I will be happy to admit I am wrong because I want to see everyone I can there.
Mr. Franklin, I have spent much time studying many of those topics you mentioned particularly Soteriology, Sanctification, and Justification.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Faith and works
quote:
Originally posted by Barry Franklin
Sir, you are not "rightly dividing the word of truth" if you try to "Spiritualize" the book of James. I'm not throwing anything out. If you will get your hackles down and "study to show thyself approved", you will learn every verse of scripture has three applications, Doctrinal, Historical, and Spiritual. James 1:1, Are you one of or part of the Twelve Tribes?
__________________
Well Stanley,this looks like another fine mess you've gotten us into
Ray Hudson
CONFUSED
What does Christ being the Good Sheppard and the only way to the Father have to do with losing salvation ? The Gospel gets messed up when we try to fill in a blank when theres not one . So Noah didnt survive the flood because he got drunk and was by his sons . When are we going to stop? Just make sure you have on your wedding garments ( THE BLOOD OF JESUS )
The father of us all
Romans 4:16
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
__________________
Well Stanley,this looks like another fine mess you've gotten us into
Ray Hudson
Cut out what you dont like
Jeremiah 36:22-24
King James Version (KJV)
22 Now the king sat in the winterhouse in the ninth month: and there was a fire on the hearth burning before him.
23 And it came to pass, that when Jehudi had read three or four leaves, he cut it with the penknife, and cast it into the fire that was on the hearth, until all the roll was consumed in the fire that was on the hearth.
24 Yet they were not afraid, nor rent their garments, neither the king, nor any of his servants that heard all these words.
__________________
Well Stanley,this looks like another fine mess you've gotten us into
Ray Hudson
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