UKC Forums - Silent trailers, tight mouthed & babblers

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-- Silent trailers, tight mouthed & babblers (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928298196)

Posted by Bobby Reynolds on 01-30-2013 09:32 PM:

Re: Silent trailers, tight mouthed & babblers

quote:
Originally posted by Billy Beckham
Rule 6 (i) If dog is continuously silent on trail.

I'm a fan of tight mouthed dogs but get tired of folks wanting to scratch them for not opening. .

.

Billy,

Like I said earlier, I have never seen anyone in 28 years of comp hunting be scratched for a silent dog.

I know what the rules say, but just like babbling, nobody enforces it. I would rather see it enforced on babblers mores so than silent tho.

Posted by Bobby Reynolds on 01-30-2013 09:49 PM:

Billy,

If you like him, hunt him. You won't have as much trouble as you might think. You know how many hunts I go to. I've not seen one scratched yet for it. StrangleHold was tight as hell if hunted down. She won all over against anything she drawed with 25 and 50 strikes. Tight dogs just have to have a little more hustle to them to get an extra coon and be error free if possible.

Good Luck To You

ps

Brad Mitchell and Jeff Travis sent 3 of the Zeb3 dogs up here to be hunted at different times. Now you are talking about the other side of the extreme. LOL At least you will always know where she is.

Posted by Bobby Reynolds on 01-30-2013 10:11 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Billy Beckham
Come down and go hunting some night.

I will be at Junction friday and saturday. They are having $1000 added purse hunt. Come on over. It will be a good one. PKC Redbone Days.........You could win it with that bluedog LOL

Posted by garminguru on 01-30-2013 10:19 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by countryboys
I love a silent dog. The quiter on the track the better. I will gladly take last strike and first tree. The ones that I have will most of the time be bythemselves anyway. But yes I do have to tree an extra coon or hope somebody makes a mistake along the way. I dont consider it cheating.

Well, if you have a silent dog and get ANY strike at all then you are cheating and should be scratched.

Posted by Randy Howard on 01-30-2013 10:19 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Bobby Reynolds
Lay-ups??? It don't take a silent dog to tree lay-ups, maybe a smart dog with skill, but not silent. Do you think it should be scratched?

NOPE, your right Bobby, But in a 2 hr. hunt they are sure to open on trail at some point, even if coons are sitting up, but why am I telling you this Heck you forgot more than I know..LOL. How's Bobby doing any how

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Posted by john Duemmer on 01-30-2013 10:27 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by garminguru
Well, if you have a silent dog and get ANY strike at all then you are cheating and should be scratched.

Well mr. scratchem suppose a dog trees a layup coon. You are required to strike the dog on or before the 3rd. bark BUT you would think thats cheatin since he didnt bark on the ground so anytime a dog trees a layup coon he has got to be scratched right?

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Posted by Randy Howard on 01-30-2013 10:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
Has UKC. ever published an advisor column about how they define Silent. If a dog runs a track along a creek opening here and there until treed, and then goes on to three 2 or 3 coon silent should that dog be scratched.
How would you scratch a dog for being silent once he has strike points on the card? EX. dog is struck for a quarter and then treed in the same area. Seems to me once the judge records strike points on the card he will have a hard time makeing a case to scratch the dog for being silent.

Your right John! but that silent dog was most likely barking up and down the creek bank trying to get across to those open trailers on the other side LOL ! Just funnin but possible? have seen it with young dogs But would be hard to scratch if has strike point for sure!I don't mind a tight mouthed dog or silent as long as they are backin everyone elses LOL. (turned into quite a topic)

Posted by River Birch Run on 01-30-2013 10:44 PM:

If a dog tree's one layup coon in a hunt it would not be scratched. If a dog makes 2,3 and 4 trees and never makes a single track bark it is silent and should be scratched. I have scratched a silent dog in a nite hunt. It backed 2 trees and never made a ground bark. I made the handler and the cast aware that the dog was silent and if it didn't run track on the next tree it would be scratched. We cut loose my dog and another dog got struck, of course the guy tried to pitch his dog. However it was easy to tell who's dog was who's at this point. The majority of the cast agreed it was not his dog so he was given 3rd strike and minused. The 3rd dog opened for strike. Mine got treed I told the cast we would get as close to the tree as we could. Standing 15 yrds from the tree his dog came in and went to treeing. He was scratched and mad as heck about it.

Posted by john Duemmer on 01-30-2013 10:53 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by River Birch Run
If a dog tree's one layup coon in a hunt it would not be scratched. If a dog makes 2,3 and 4 trees and never makes a single track bark it is silent and should be scratched. I have scratched a silent dog in a nite hunt. It backed 2 trees and never made a ground bark. I made the handler and the cast aware that the dog was silent and if it didn't run track on the next tree it would be scratched. We cut loose my dog and another dog got struck, of course the guy tried to pitch his dog. However it was easy to tell who's dog was who's at this point. The majority of the cast agreed it was not his dog so he was given 3rd strike and minused. The 3rd dog opened for strike. Mine got treed I told the cast we would get as close to the tree as we could. Standing 15 yrds from the tree his dog came in and went to treeing. He was scratched and mad as heck about it.

You didnt scratch a silent traildog you scratched a meeeeto dog LOL. either way good job.

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Posted by Randy Howard on 01-30-2013 11:02 PM:

Way to go River Birch Run! Hope he draws you again LOL bet he scratches if your judging LOL

Posted by Bobby Reynolds on 01-30-2013 11:07 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by garminguru

You can't strike a dog on locate unless you are a cheater!

The rules say on or before the 3rd bark. You also have to strike a dog before you can tree it. So if my dog Opens on trail and trees a coon and then I recast my dog and he goes 100 yards and just locates and trees and I strike and tree him, I am a cheater. Don't think so!!! That is one crazy statement you are making there.

Posted by garminguru on 01-30-2013 11:25 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Bobby Reynolds
The rules say on or before the 3rd bark. You also have to strike a dog before you can tree it. So if my dog Opens on trail and trees a coon and then I recast my dog and he goes 100 yards and just locates and trees and I strike and tree him, I am a cheater. Don't think so!!! That is one crazy statement you are making there.

Well, if your dog opens on trail then he is not silent is he? That is one crazy comparison you are making there!
How many times do you think your scenario is actually going to happen?

Posted by garminguru on 01-30-2013 11:29 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
Well mr. scratchem suppose a dog trees a layup coon. You are required to strike the dog on or before the 3rd. bark BUT you would think thats cheatin since he didnt bark on the ground so anytime a dog trees a layup coon he has got to be scratched right?

Probably by the way the rule is written!
I think if we get on coons in a two hr hunt I am going to know if your dog is silent or not or at least a man should if he knows anything about dogs and coon hunting.
That is why if a judge does the right thing, and I call my young dog by what he is actually doing, I would be scratched more often than not.

Posted by nightprowler on 01-30-2013 11:29 PM:

well

lot of opinions and that y there so many type hounds to choose from u like wat u like and i like wat i have and i will not knock anothers prefference for me the joy of coonhuntin is hittin the timber with friends family and my children and stand behind a silent dog 100 percent if they have a locate then they open on track dont anyone else follow there dog around sounds to me like garmin and 4x4 has takin the joy of huntin away from alot of people

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Posted by garminguru on 01-30-2013 11:32 PM:

Re: well

quote:
Originally posted by nightprowler
lot of opinions and that y there so many type hounds to choose from u like wat u like and i like wat i have and i will not knock anothers prefference for me the joy of coonhuntin is hittin the timber with friends family and my children and stand behind a silent dog 100 percent if they have a locate then they open on track dont anyone else follow there dog around sounds to me like garmin and 4x4 has takin the joy of huntin away from alot of people

Wrong! If a dog locates it has nothing to do with trailing, all with the treeing process. I explained this earlier!

Posted by Randy Howard on 01-31-2013 12:02 AM:

Who started this thread Billy? LOL alot of different opinions, but I have not yet seen a silent trailer scratched, but honestly have not drawn that many, have seen some tight mouthed dogs, don't see it being that big of problem JMO If you got one and he can win honest and not pich them in on strike HUNT EM! Just not my cup of tea But you may like tea?

Posted by Bobby Reynolds on 01-31-2013 12:44 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by garminguru
Well, if your dog opens on trail then he is not silent is he? That is one crazy comparison you are making there!
How many times do you think your scenario is actually going to happen?

No, its not a crazy comparison. You said that if a person strikes a dog on a locate, he is a cheater. All I did was show that that statement was wrong.

Posted by MikeR on 01-31-2013 01:18 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Billy Beckham
You have no d@mn idea what my dog does or is. If I tell you he is tight mouthed that's what he is. Barks when he hits it if its a hot track he will open if its a older track he wont say much. HE IS TIGHT MOUTHED.
the terrier I own wont make a peep in the woods while squirrel hunting. THATS A SILENT DOG.

I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE.

What does the rule say "If dog is continuously silent on trail."

key word is continuously, what does that mean?
uninterrupted in time; without cessation

I think that ends it, now we know exactly what the rule means.

Little sensative and thin skinned are we? I can assure you at my age I understand the difference between tight mouthed and silent and what the rule reads.

1 bark on track is extremely tight mouthed but by the rules it's not going to get a dog scratched, however don't try to convince me the majority of guys who hunt those types of dogs don't strike and tree them in the same breath. Been there done that.

Hunt what you like, I'll hunt what I like. When me meet in a comp hunt it's strickly by the rules.

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Posted by garminguru on 01-31-2013 01:29 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Bobby Reynolds
No, its not a crazy comparison. You said that if a person strikes a dog on a locate, he is a cheater. All I did was show that that statement was wrong.

The statement is not wrong because you also said your dog had opened on track earlier, therefore, you would not be packing a silent dog! Just because your dog trees a layup coon without opening on track, that alone does not make a silent dog in what I think the spirit of the rule has been written.
Now, my dog, who sometimes will open a few barks on a very hot track, in my opinion, is keeping in the spirit of what the rules are wanting us to scratch for. Plain and simple!
9 out of 10 times with my dog, you hear a locate and then tree!

Posted by blackflagginit on 01-31-2013 01:45 AM:

Re: Re: well

quote:
Originally posted by garminguru
Wrong! If a dog locates it has nothing to do with trailing, all with the treeing process. I explained this earlier!

the hole in your theory is that you assume striking a dog means it is trailing, that theory doesnt hold water because of 2 other UKC rules, having to "strike" a dog on or before the 3rd bark (says nothing of the dog having to be TRAILING) and the fact a dog has to be STRUCK before it can be TREED. there can always be a claim made it was a layup coon, and no way to prove otherwise...and ukc's own rules say you have to claim the "strike" points before you can claim the tree points. there isnt even a subrule to draw a line through those strike points, as they would be in the case of the tree points for a dog struck and treed on a coon caught on the ground for instance.

I personaly scratched dogs for being silent on 2 different occasions in the past, only to have the MOH reverse my ruling when we got back to the club.......could i have filed a formal complaint and all that jazz, sure.........but i was a non hunting judge in one, and ended up stompin the sudds out of the other before the night was done anyway......

2 different moh, prob 15yrs apart, and both reversed the ruling because in there opinion there was no way to prove the dog didnt open a few feet from the tree and then tree, and because of the layup example and other rules quoted above.

Posted by Bobby Reynolds on 01-31-2013 03:08 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by garminguru
The statement is not wrong because you also said your dog had opened on track earlier, therefore, you would not be packing a silent dog! Just because your dog trees a layup coon without opening on track, that alone does not make a silent dog in what I think the spirit of the rule has been written.
Now, my dog, who sometimes will open a few barks on a very hot track, in my opinion, is keeping in the spirit of what the rules are wanting us to scratch for. Plain and simple!
9 out of 10 times with my dog, you hear a locate and then tree!

I am not here to argue. Does not matter what my dog did earlier. That was an example. Your statement was IF A PERSON STRIKES A DOG ON A LOCATE YOU ARE A CHEATER. That statement is wrong no matter how you want to present it. Does not matter silent or open trailer, the statement is wrong.

Posted by hopm on 01-31-2013 03:36 AM:

Every time I start to think I might want to competition hunt a thread like this comes up. Thanks to all for keeping me on the straight and narrow and just enjoying my dawgs.

Posted by walkerdog1 on 01-31-2013 04:05 AM:

I've seen the babbling rule enforced more so than rule 6 i would rather have a stone silent dog than a babbler jmo

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Posted by Tully on 01-31-2013 04:13 AM:

All I read is this silent layup stuff. Just because a dog trees layup coon doesn't mean they all open with a locate on the wood. I have a dog that squeals or throws a real high pitched chop when he opens on scent in the air on his way to the tree. Most times if they are silent all the way to the tree, and open on the wood they are just checking trees anyway. I believe a true layup the dogs are still tracking, but just not off the ground.

Wouldn't it be nice to have one that opens every time the instant they smell a track, and open the next time with a locate!!!!?????

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Posted by wjoey on 01-31-2013 04:17 AM:

If you really stop and think about it there would not be one dog that at one time or another would fit into one of these catagories.

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