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Originally posted by wrinkletreeknls
now now slobber mouth we dont train hounds rememberr? hounds train us............... they come out of the womb knowing what a coon is and we dont do anything other than hunt them

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Look out john wick!!!!! not only is this guy a trainer, he's a preacher too ha ha

and by the way most people do know by age 5 that the world is round ha ha

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i'll leave you alone now dirt devil, your right your the only one who's right, and anyone who has ever done anything different than you is 100% wrong and should live in a shack and not pollute anyone with anything that they do...........

i'd still love for you to tell us just who you are that makes you sooooo much better than anyone else to call them a liar, or an exagerater rather than an "exxagerater"

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Watchin new kids in this sport always cracks me up lol.....there just convinced that the act of a dog parkin its butt under a coon is some mystic power given to the chosen ones :/

like turning water to wine, high ball gets under an oak tree with a ringtail in it, and its divine intervention, the prophet has come rofl

then years later, and hundreds or thousands of trees walked too later, it hits them.......its not rocket science, its accualy a wonder that every mutt turned loose in the woods doesnt do it consistently.

while it does take a certin genetic code, the one we strive for, to make a hound truely excell......the meat and potatos facts are its realy not hard for a dog to get treed and have a coon. and there are even a large percent of dogs who do it consistently who STILL dont qualify to be called "coondogs" IMO

I laugh not out to be mean, but because once 30yrs ago or so, I was just like them. I also know once they realise the truth, training there next prospect will be so much easier they will wonder what the big deal was back then.

Now wait a minute, are y'all saying theres never been a dog to go in the woods for the very first time and tree a coon?

most Any dog breed torun and tree coon if put in the woods that eventually sticks it's nose in a coon track will respond to that scent. Very, very few make what I call a "real" coon dog! I am not going to debate about natural instinct, however, until you see it, you won't understand! I'm not saying this to be offensive, but I do feel sorry for folks that don't know that no, you don't have to show a dog to tree. Tre instinct is so strong now a days, thats the last thing you need to work on!

Paul

lol black flaggin, i'm not saying that begging aunt nellies yorkie into barking at a coon in a tree makes it a coon dog, but my stance is that you do have to show your puppy what a coon is, and put some effort into training them........
the "debate" if you call it that is that dirt devil seems to think you dont need to do any of this for a puppy to run and tree a coon, and his oppinion seems to be that if you do, you are wrong, a liar, and lazy........

not being mean, but i have been training hounds for 10 plus years and i'm not exactly a new kid to the sport

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paul, i'm not saying its never happened, and i'm not saying it doesnt happen frequently, what i am saying though is it saves an amount of time if you engineer an environment that you can control, example, laying a drag, or using a cage coon in an area you know well, and know the dog will be safe.

and i'm also saying that a person doesnt have the right to call someone lazy or a liar or an exagerator just because their ways are different.

thats all i'm sayin.

what part of wv are you in paul

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ya it was mr dirtdevil i was talkin about lol...........


his own posts dont even agree with themselfs lol...by the posts and standerds he has brought up, a dr can only be sired by a dr....a lawyer by a lawyer....ect ect


speaks of training being moot for coondogs, but a dr has to go to school to learn or he is using a swiss army knife.......well fallowing the train of thought used on the coondog example he should have been BORN a dr and no school should have been required..just toss him a scalpel and let the fun begin :/

and just to clarify what i call a coondog is a k-9 no matter the breed that can go out night after night, and finish a track it comes across and has the coon at the end of the track.

not a hound that go's a mile to hit a track and another mile to tree it. and not a hound that stands beside you the whole way, and yes i do beleive in walk hunting a hound.

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ha ha our mentality must be a wv thing, i'm in marion county, you?

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I've already given my basic phylosophy on page one , me repeating myself won't make a difference ... that' what politicians do .. stand there hollering at each other and repeating themselves over and over ... twisting what the other one says in an effort to hear what they want , not the truth.

Talent and traits are genetic and in some way ... God given . But yes , it's our job to give dogs the exposure and nurture it.

Dead coon and training scents are not what dogs run when chasing wild coon .. practicing on them doesn't translate later on . When a dog has been trained like that and does well in the woods ... it's just proves how genetics can overcome bad training just like it can no training.

Hauling those pups around and exposing them to new people, dogs , places ..... giving them discipline , making them show patience and to think .... that stuff helps.

I've thrown cookies out at creeks or ponds and trying to find them later that night to put a pup on .. it's a form of training but it's natural and not left to chance . It's more work than most want to do ... and if a dog lacks the talent to catch on , folks would rather lower their standards than cull.

I didn't invent anything and am not trying to claim credit for the truth , but I will defend it and share it without fail .

Has anyone seen a poodle that could be cut loose on it's own and consistantly go strike and tree coon ... cold tracks , in swamps , with other dogs treed and not pull , etc ?

No breed of dog bred for other purposes can compete with a line of coondogs bred to tree coon for umpteen generations ... the low hanging fruit you praise a collie for treeing is neat , but don't make em' a coondog.

You can't compare livestock or even hounds to people ... people are bred random , mixed racially and are out of context when talking about inheriting traits.

But even at that , we'e all seen pretty parents throw pretty children .. smart families with good morals throw successful children and so forth ...

To grasp and straws and exaggerate my ideas ... and even invent things you want me to say and then argue with your own pretend words ... just makes you look desperate for attention... it's because you want people to praise you , not the information or experience you have to share.

All in learning here, but no, you don't have to show a pup a coon. Take a pup at what ever age it clicks, "some start earlier than others" when that track goes up it's nose, it will respond to that track and make every effert to follow that track. If the coon runs a short distance, that pup can and will locate the tree and tree it! Now, what do I mean by tree it.......some can/will blow the top out of the tree, some won't bark much, what I wanna see is how interested in the tree it is. In other words, how intence it is about that tree. Some will take more trips to the woods than others. But fact is, some can and will do this the first exposed to a track. Again, know where the coon are to better your chances of hitting a track!

Paul

I am from Feyette county. Your right, no need for insulting!!! However, I do agree that yard work is a waste of time!!!

Paul

and why not pet that dog up on the tree if it will make him bark harder, also it lets him know that he's doing what you want him to do, your pups goal is to please you, why not reward him for it.

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thats cool, but it gives the pup exposure, its just my way, and i know several other people that do it the same way, so i say we all just agree to disagree.

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You can do that in the woods. Some need not to be petted up much cause that can encourage them to be tree happy wanting to please us to much!

Paul

Petting , treats and other such stuff is fine but should not be the dog's reward ...

Real work ethic comes from genetics and passion for the job itself ... that's where the fire that dog needs to be exceptional will come from.

When you interfere with that and substitute it with petting , treats or playtime ... you are doing more harm than good.

Real drive in people , dogs and even Seasbiscuit comes from within ... that is what we must nurture , not diminish.

Being a good trainer means learning the differences in stuff like that .... and that they even exist.

I reckon we'll just leave things as they stand, and lead the thread starter draw from this the info he desires and leave it at that, good day gentleman, oh yeah i bid you adieu dirt devil.

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Heres another thought, how did old timers train? Folks didn't have money for cages and didn't have access to scent in a bottle. Heard many stories of my grandpa and uncles hunting all season and catching 3-5 coon around hear. They wore out boots!!! They learned where the coon were! Now, we got plenty of coon for this area. Not compared to other areas.....even the liars and exageraters have never claimed to catch 50 in a season!!! Oh, it could be done if you hunt almost every night, but not if ya wanna be home to watch the 11"o clock news!

Paul

i know plenty of people that sow dogs caged coons i do it but ive also trained cull dogs for people so ive had to sit and think of different ways to flip this dogs switch one was taken a and putten a dog collar on it and tien i rope to it let the coon run up and tree and turnen pup aloose and let him find the tree it took awhile for him to find the tree but when he did and i seen he was smellen up the tree i pulled the coon out the pup went crazy the coon went up that same tree i pulled him out of and from that time on that pup never had problems treeing even when the guy swore up and down that dog would not tree to save his life he ended up liken that dog when he got him back the bucket trick i use alot though it just gets the dogs to hate that smell want to kill whatever smells like that iknow i havent got 30plus years like most people but ihave never seen one method work on every dog there is always something else you have to add or take from it because no dog is the same unless its out of dogs you have been breeding and raisen for years then you just know what works for them dogs because they are your dogs

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The old timers sure did have traps , there were even people called trappers back then , lol ..

I've made alot of box traps from hollow logs ... and as a kid it would take me half a day to drag one to a creek I wanted to set it out sometimes.

But , you can also make those hand traps for coon with a small hollow log where you make a funnel by driving nails through the side of the log around a small hole ... they reach through and get their hand caught .

But for sure , way back when most dogs were possum dogs that might tree the odd coon ...

I see your point, of corse they had traps. LOL! Your sure right about the opossum dogs!!!

Paul

Sometimes I think we sell the oldtimers short ... they built everything we enjoy today from coonhunting to cars .

But it's hard not to use em' to our advantage ... you think the old timers had faces ? No ! They didn't even have faces or makeup back then , little girl ... they invented nametags just so they would know their own children ... you didn't need a face to do dishes or mow the lawn ... then came them French women and they brought faces and makeup with them !

what do you mean little girl?

Paul