UKC Forums - score this

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- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- score this (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928276032)

Posted by JiM on 10-14-2012 10:18 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by max destruction
Well Jim I do care or I wouldnt have started this post and after reading brads link I see its circled,sorry if were not all geniuses like you!

Jesse, if you knew me , you'd know I'm no genius or even very smart, ask them that does know me. But I did make it pass 3rd grade and this question was answered on here so long ago and so many times that it is just hard for me to accept that anyone could still not get it. But I guess you do finally and if making you think I'm a smartass is all it took, well, I can live with that.

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Posted by max destruction on 10-14-2012 10:51 PM:

I no your not Jim im just not so sure you relize your not.

If its so simple why was I told wrong by a MOH just last night? And a MOH I no you think very highly of.

I got confused because of rule 18 and how it got worded just because SOME people on this msg board say a rule is 1 wsy dont mean im gonna change all my ways of thinking,sorry i didnt just except the 1st response,from now on ill believe evedything I hear and read on the ukc msg board!

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TEAM TREEDOGG!

Posted by nccoonhunter197 on 10-14-2012 11:01 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by max destruction
I no your not Jim im just not so sure you relize your not.

If its so simple why was I told wrong by a MOH just last night? And a MOH I no you think very highly of.

I got confused because of rule 18 and how it got worded just because SOME people on this msg board say a rule is 1 wsy dont mean im gonna change all my ways of thinking,sorry i didnt just except the 1st response,from now on ill believe evedything I hear and read on the ukc msg board!

If a MOH told you wrong on this one then he/she needs to retake the test or give up their license. I am a MOH and I have explained this to alot of people and they were like you, misinformed. After explaining it they say wow that is simple, if it is a tie vote it is circled. Don't understand how much easier it could be. P.S. If I needed a rule explained to me I would ask Jim or Rip. Both of these gentlemen know the rules very well.

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Posted by patches9452 on 10-15-2012 12:36 AM:

we had a 2 to 2 vote on slick or circle and someone questioned it in the zone hunt..... couldnt believe the master of hounds said it was to be deleted until i showed him in the advisor different

Posted by truly on 10-15-2012 03:04 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by patches9452
we had a 2 to 2 vote on slick or circle and someone questioned it in the zone hunt..... couldnt believe the master of hounds said it was to be deleted until i showed him in the advisor different

patches: not just a MOH, a UKC field rep would have been running the zones.

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Posted by patches9452 on 10-15-2012 03:13 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by truly
patches: not just a MOH, a UKC field rep would have been running the zones.

true

Posted by runnin rebels on 10-16-2012 12:11 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by truly
patches: not just a MOH, a UKC field rep would have been running the zones.

yep, and if a UKC field rep gets it wrong at the zones you are screwed because there is no appealing their decision

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Posted by dogtrader9 on 10-17-2012 02:02 AM:

coonhoud advisory ukc sells them for 15 oo if u comp hunt buy u one

Posted by runnin rebels on 10-17-2012 02:44 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by dogtrader9
coonhoud advisory ukc sells them for 15 oo if u comp hunt buy u one

as soon as they make new rules is the advisor outdated?

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Posted by Cornbelt on 10-17-2012 04:26 AM:

For all of those saying you NEVER delete tree points, riddle me this.....

Four dog cast a,b,c,d all treed together. Treed in den tree with crack in the side. Hunting judge and one handler say plus it up that's a coon. Other two handlers say minus it is a possum.
Now what?

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Iowa State Coon Hunters Website: www.iowacoonhunters.com
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Posted by john Duemmer on 10-17-2012 04:35 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Cornbelt
For all of those saying you NEVER delete tree points, riddle me this.....

Four dog cast a,b,c,d all treed together. Treed in den tree with crack in the side. Hunting judge and one handler say plus it up that's a coon. Other two handlers say minus it is a possum.
Now what?

CIRCLE its so simple, anytime their is no majority in agreement the tree is circled PERIOD.
Its not true that tree points are never deleted, if dogs are treed on a previously scored tree ALL points are deleted.

Hunting judge doesnt matter, scoring a tree is ALWAYS a voting situation. 1 hunter 1 vote.

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Posted by Cornbelt on 10-17-2012 04:44 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
CIRCLE its so simple, anytime their is no majority in agreement the tree is circled PERIOD.
Its not true that tree points are never deleted, if dogs are treed on a previously scored tree ALL points are deleted.

Hunting judge doesnt matter, scoring a tree is ALWAYS a voting situation. 1 hunter 1 vote.

What if it was 2-2 vote but the hunting judge voted minus for possum?

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Iowa State Coon Hunters Website: www.iowacoonhunters.com
ISCHA on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/IowaStateCoonHunters

Posted by john Duemmer on 10-17-2012 04:46 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Cornbelt
What if it was 2-2 vote but the hunting judge voted possum?

2TO2 vote is always circled ALWAYS. Ahunting judge has no more to say about how a tree is scored than any other cast member.

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Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

Posted by Cornbelt on 10-17-2012 04:53 AM:

Anybody else got an opinion on this or agree with John? Didn't get to go hunting tonight so figured I'd stir the proverbial pot some. Remember about the time you go relying on what you think you know those pesky rules turn on you again. LOL. Who says internet coon hunting is no fun?

And just so you know both of John's answers are wrong so far. Anybody know why?

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Kyle Hough

Iowa State Coon Hunters Website: www.iowacoonhunters.com
ISCHA on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/IowaStateCoonHunters

Posted by Bob Hennessey on 10-17-2012 04:56 AM:

Why does everyone keep bringing up question about "if hunting judge"
IF THE VOTE IS 2 TO 2 IT'S CIRCLED NO MATTER HOW THE HUNTING JUDGE VOTES, IT TAKES A MAJORITY TO PLUS OR MINUS A TREE. Why is this so hard to understand?

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Posted by john Duemmer on 10-17-2012 05:01 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Cornbelt
Anybody else got an opinion on this or agree with John? Didn't get to go hunting tonight so figured I'd stir the proverbial pot some. Remember about the time you go relying on what you think you know those pesky rules turn on you again. LOL. Who says internet coon hunting is no fun?

And just so you know both of John's answers are wrong so far. Anybody know why?

OK smart guy forget that i been at this for 50 years. Why are my answers incorrect?

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Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

Posted by john Duemmer on 10-17-2012 05:03 AM:

Now your going to say that because the judge said possum that the dogs would be minus right.

__________________
Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

Posted by Cornbelt on 10-17-2012 05:07 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Cornbelt
What if it was 2-2 vote but the hunting judge voted minus for possum?

What the hunting judge thinks here matters very much. If he thinks it's off game is that a judgement he makes or a majority cast vote?

See rules 4(a) and 18(b)1-4

Still think it's circled?

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Iowa State Coon Hunters Website: www.iowacoonhunters.com
ISCHA on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/IowaStateCoonHunters

Posted by john Duemmer on 10-17-2012 05:10 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Cornbelt
What the hunting judge thinks here matters very much. If he thinks it's off game is that a judgement he makes or a majority cast vote?

See rules 4(a) and 18(b)1-4

Still think it's circled?

Thats a judgement he makes initially and any cast member can request a vote to overturn his opinion. So it still will boil down to majority vote. If you reread your original scenario the judge voted to plus so my answer that the tre would be circled is correct.

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Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

Posted by Cornbelt on 10-17-2012 05:19 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
OK smart guy forget that i been at this for 50 years. Why are my answers incorrect?

I didn't mean to pick on you John. I was feeling kinda wound up and kinda set a trap. The point I'm trying to make is the rules are confusing and even someone who has been at it for 50 years may not know all of UKC's interpretations.

The first part of the question above with four dogs treed and the hunting judge and one other handler voting coon and the 2 other handlers voting possum is a unique situation where all points would be deleted. You can't plus it or minus it cause there is no majority and you can't circle it because there is definitely something there. The only option left is to delete all the points.

Obviously if the judge thinks it's off game then that is a judgement call that takes a majority to overturn.

Again the point is there are plenty of situations where it is easy to try to hang onto one rule or belief that will bite you in the hind end in some situation. For example Jesse hanging onto rule 18 and almost everyone (myself included) thinking all tie votes on a tree are circle. Sorry if I ruffled any feathers. Just being ornery tonight I guess.

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Posted by john Duemmer on 10-17-2012 05:24 AM:

Show me whereUKC. has said this would be a delete situation just because something is There?

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Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

Posted by Cornbelt on 10-17-2012 05:28 AM:

Page 29 of the original Adviser under "What If".

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Iowa State Coon Hunters Website: www.iowacoonhunters.com
ISCHA on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/IowaStateCoonHunters

Posted by john Duemmer on 10-17-2012 05:38 AM:

I dont have an old one around but i will take your word on it. Live and learn.

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Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

Posted by Cornbelt on 10-17-2012 05:52 AM:

John

I very much respect your opinions on the rules and agree with your views on them 95% of the time. However Jesse was stuck on a rule and it prevented him from seeing what most thought was obvious. However I have been right where he is. I remember arguing with Jim and Todd Kellam about the old rule of a dog being shut out on strike was not accountable for his strike points. It was in black and white but I couldn't get the dog will be minused rules out of my head. Looking back I was being a stubborn ass. But I really couldn't get my mind to overlook rule 4(e).

Obviously I'm still an ass but I try to be less stubborn and more understanding when someone gets something stuck in their head. I guess the point of my posts were to show even the most basic rules we go by and are correct 99% of the time can have exceptions that can cause our minds to hang up on what we "know". I knew that scenario would get someone to bite... sorry it had to be you.

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Iowa State Coon Hunters Website: www.iowacoonhunters.com
ISCHA on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/IowaStateCoonHunters

Posted by runnin rebels on 10-17-2012 01:53 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Cornbelt
Page 29 of the original Adviser under "What If".

the original advisor is prolly outdated and they changed that rule.

Just like UKC will change this rule and it will say this, "A majority of the cast is needed to plus, circle or minus a tree. If no majority, points will be deleted."

at least if the rules are spelled out clearly to the end there is no room for our interpretation of what to do next

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