UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- stir the bluetick pot (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=86206)

Re: stir the bluetick pot

quote:

---

Originally posted by rance56
j/k but here are my opinions

top 10 studs
1. rattler
2. bullet 2
3. rock
4. tramp
5. hammer 18
6. hornet
7. bo bo
8. dancer
9. lead
10. b & ds spike

get while still can(no particular order)
sheltons fly
timms trapper
uchtmans max
pop a top
arkie
hillbilly
flatwoods jake
missouri blue rock


15 to watch(no particular order)
Raisin cane
appels bullet/ blue blaze littermates
iron will
boomer
jaggs
clyde
uncle pen
towash creek smoke
choppin axe
so bl bawls
anti up joker
diamond jim 2
tuff stuff
bishops grover
tramps lake

current top litter to get a pup from
rattler x too tuff betty
bock x sheltons star

please add you opinions on ones i missed or ones on the list im missing the boat on

---

__________________
Ten Mile Blueticks

quote:

---

Originally posted by rance56


if you want a real jet stud that isnt advertised other than that thing you are toting around, call rithcie mcdonald he knows of one off qc jet that is throwing nice dogs if he is still being bred

---

__________________
"If you are mad as hell and aren't gonna take it anymore, grab your rifle and head outside. If you're the only one with a rifle screaming like a maniac, go back inside. It isn't time yet."

Re: stir the bluetick pot

quote:

---

Originally posted by rance56
j/k but here are my opinions

top 10 studs
1. rattler
2. bullet 2
3. rock
4. tramp
5. hammer 18
6. hornet
7. bo bo
8. dancer
9. lead
10. b & ds spike

get while still can(no particular order)
sheltons fly
timms trapper
uchtmans max
pop a top
arkie
hillbilly
flatwoods jake
missouri blue rock


15 to watch(no particular order)
Raisin cane
appels bullet/ blue blaze littermates
iron will
boomer
jaggs
clyde
uncle pen
towash creek smoke
choppin axe
so bl bawls
anti up joker
diamond jim 2
tuff stuff
bishops grover
tramps lake

current top litter to get a pup from
rattler x too tuff betty
bock x sheltons star

please add you opinions on ones i missed or ones on the list im missing the boat on

---

__________________
"If you are mad as hell and aren't gonna take it anymore, grab your rifle and head outside. If you're the only one with a rifle screaming like a maniac, go back inside. It isn't time yet."

Re: Re: stir the bluetick pot

quote:

---

Originally posted by bullofthewoods
Rance I notice you have Rattler at the top of your list. I am by no means trying to start anything I am just curious of why? I hunt with Lee Smith and have talked with him about many studs and he told me you were one that was pretty picky about what you like and breed so i figured you must do your homework on these dogs. I just wanted to pick your brain on Rattler a little. Thanks Bull.

---

Atta Girl

quote:

---

Originally posted by Long Ears
A dog does not have to be gr nt ch to reproduce great hounds. Some of the best hounds in the woods never reproduced anything. I think you guys forget this sometimes when you are talking about stud dogs. There are some dogs that are known only to local people. These dogs produce some of the most balanced coondogs ever, but the pups never get national hunting time. This does not mean these dogs are not top notch hounds or that the stud does not reproduce better hounds. It means not everyone competition hunts every weekend. It means not every great hound gets a chance to shine in the big hunts. It also means that some stud dogs do not get advertised or campaigned to get the chance in the breeding pen that others do. There is a PR dog on the reproducers list who has reproduced some of the very best hounds around his local area. Most of the pups have never been hunted in competition, but can not be bought. He will never be on a list like this one, becuse he is not advertised and has not been put in hunts himself to be recognized for his abilities. He still is on the reproducers list. That makes a dog like I discribe a pretty good reproducer in my mind. I am sure there are plenty of dogs like this out there that reproduce greatness, but no one ever hears about them.
HHMMM, I just realized I was rambling. I hoep you get the gist of my meaning. I guess the point is that the very best reproducing stud dog out there could be tied behind someones barn, making great pups, and never being seen on lists like this one. I am not trying to take away from these dogs, but reminding you guys that they are not the only ones out there either. They can also only be a great as the females they are bred too.

---

__________________
"If you are mad as hell and aren't gonna take it anymore, grab your rifle and head outside. If you're the only one with a rifle screaming like a maniac, go back inside. It isn't time yet."

just curious

Ken I was just looking for more information on Rattler from some more people. Thank you for the insight and i do agree with you on Bullet. All that I have seen out of him and all the dogs and pups I've had off Bullet II I have loved. They are some of the smartest and most natural I have ever seen. The only thing about Rattler that I have heard that might be concidered a "hole" in the dog is a lack of track power. I dont know as I have never hunted with the dog and all I have to go by is what other people say. Please believe me I am not trying to start trouble I am just trying to get better informed.

__________________
Ten Mile Blueticks

WWWHOOOOOAAAAAAA

Now thats one thing Rattler isnt lacking in is track power!!!!!!

__________________
"If you are mad as hell and aren't gonna take it anymore, grab your rifle and head outside. If you're the only one with a rifle screaming like a maniac, go back inside. It isn't time yet."

Bull, No problem. I have never hunted with Rattler either. Tony Foley can tell you about him. I don't think he turns him loose much anymore. I can tell you what I have seen from my pup. He is not lacking in track power and definitely is not lacking at the tree. He is as fast on track as anything I have ever seen. He is out of Rattler and a Hammer 18 female. Like I said, I didn't fool with him much until a couple months ago(other than letting him run around the house). He has been a natural for me so far. Matter of fact I started to sell him a few months ago before I started hunting again. I am glad I didn't.

Ken

Re: WWWHOOOOOAAAAAAA

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rob Ellett
Now thats one thing Rattler isnt lacking in is track power!!!!!!

---

Re: WWWHOOOOOAAAAAAA

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rob Ellett
Now thats one thing Rattler isnt lacking in is track power!!!!!!

---

__________________
Ten Mile Blueticks

Bull, He is definitely throwing level headed and good disposition in his pups. Whitey will take what he comes to and he finishes it. His first time in the woods, 1st drop, he picked up a track and fell treed about 50 feet from where we dropped. You guessed it, had a coon. There were a couple "high powered" dogs with us that night and they had no idea that coon was there. You won't mess anything up by breeding to Rattler.

Ken

Thanks

Ken thank you for the info and for your time. I plan on attending a coonhunting gathering in Forrest MS latter this summer I'de love to meet you and your Whitey dog if you can get free. Call me for more info on the gathering 1 580 298 7722 Bull.

__________________
Ten Mile Blueticks

Re: Thanks

quote:

---

Originally posted by bullofthewoods
Ken thank you for the info and for your time. I plan on attending a coonhunting gathering in Forrest MS latter this summer I'de love to meet you and your Whitey dog if you can get free. Call me for more info on the gathering 1 580 298 7722 Bull.

---

first off i didnt let the tail wag the dog. what i mean by that is that i didnt choose a line of blues to hunt, i choose a style of blue and that lead me to this line. i didnt know nobody in the bluetick world and my hunting buddies all had walkers or english. so for me, it was soley about finding a coondog.

i want one to do what its going to do in a hurry, be able to do it by itself, do it in a manner that i enjoy, and do it right the majority of the time.

why rattler? well rattler has the numer and age on his pups to be able to definetly get a read on what he is throwing across a variety of females and lines and the proof is in the pudding. there might be dogs out there now that eventually turn out to be better, but they have yet to prove it or had the opportunity to do it at this poitn in time. so im going to stick with what i know as fact. i wanted track speed first and foremost, rattlers name kept popping up in these discussions. i wanted independence, again rattler kept popping up. so i knew he was the style of dog i wanted. he also had the breeding that i liked, it was obvious bullet on jet 5 females was working, look at rattler, runnin gun(the whole bulletX becky cross for that matter), appels bullet, and blaze the sire of my sassy gyp. on top of that his sire bullet has the highest percentage and chief the grandsire has numerous direct offspring on the reproducers list. then most importanly look at what rattler was/is throwing, this was years before he made the reproducers list but tony was hunting and winning with dogs out of rattler that were at a young age and he could point you to several others that had dogs off him that were wiining. none of this pleasure hunters garbage, every stud is going to have offspring in the worng hands so i dont want to hear that argument. world champions are bought every year, dont tell me some pleasure hunters dog cant be bought if he is nice enough for some one to REALLY want him. we have 2 females off of rat from 2 different litters, both are independant, early starting, hard going TREE dogs. if this truely isnt the case why would i be bringing 2 more females to bred to him this year. here it is folks, take it for what its worth. the best advertisement a stud owner can do is hunt and win with young dogs off his stud, the best endorsment someone can give another mans stud is breed you top personal females to him. you got both going on in rattler.

as for the rest of the list, bullet 2 is early in his reproducing career but his offspring are already making a mark in the hunts and proving to be a special type hound, not just some ole pups you can knock around with and win alittle at the local hunts, but real classy type dogs. also where else are you going to find the breeding he has in a smokey river stud? bullet and june were as good as they get.

rock, he has the numbers and the breeding, where else are you going to find diamond jim in the 3rd generation in a top hound.

tramp- has the numbers, was from an all grand litter that most reproduced also, and produced 2 world champion blueticks, again tough blood to find elsewhere that close up in a top dog.

hammer 18, maybe the last of a long great line, some real top hounds out there directly off him that are still getting it done, get it while you can cause you might never find another hammer stud like him again.

hornet, the next in a long line of great reproducers, has the numbers, throwing tree dogs you might not be able to find anywhere else,

bobo, finally a rambo stud stepping up to the forefront? looks to be so, again early in reprodcuing career, but already has produced a gr nt and has a female winning all over the country from another cross, where else can you touch his pedigree for that type breeding. and yes he has the looks. also i was told if brian lucas hunts/promotes he is a coondog

dancer, knock him if you want to, but im not completely sold you are going to get mean dogs if you breed to him, ive seen winners from several different females crossed on him, has it all, looks, pedigree and hutning/reproducing ability

tree thumpin lead, has the numbers, throwback type dog, hard going, gamey, independant track dogs, tough to find type blood elsewhere

b& d spike,just have a gut feeling on this dog, has hard to find blood behind him upclose, repdroduced the crook dog and have also heard of others winning in the hunts.

why rc on the watch list? cause he has only proven to be able to cross well on one female. im real big on going on proven commodities, after rc's other crosses get some age on them, then you can get a true accurate read, until then its just a guessing game on what he is going to throw with other females. for me to breed to a dog he has to have winners from atleast 3 different crosses and a couple of different blooded females. i might miss out on a stud that dies early, but in the long run i think ill come out ahead by always breeding to a fully proven dog.


im not worried about long haired dogs, i got one myself and seen her stand up just fine in the absolute toughest of conditions, i guess the dog and the hunter just need to be as tough as each other. bring your dogs down to the briars, heat, and dust of south georgia and we will see who gives out first and who can consistantly tree coon in these conditions.

something to think about-every dog or line has a fault, if mine is in the looks i know what the fault is, where are the others faults hidden and do you want to find out firsthand for yourself?


i could only list one dog as my top dog, and i hope i didnt or dotn offend any body by. alot of this is going to be determined by my personal preference. i hope to those that read this on here that they understand if i plan to breed a gyp to your dog down the line or hunting a pup off him, that i was very selective in doing so and by no way thing your dog takes a back seat to any. like i said i have personal preferences and i like to go with the older proven dogs while i can. that being said, if rat was 2 years old and had this track record i would still be breeding to him. hopefully if you dont care for what i say on here and dont know me otherwise, you will still let me breed a gyp to your stud if that is the case down the line.

as for pads and reproducers lists, they are tools but by no means end alls. i want a dog that has proven to reproduce acorss numerous females and lines and the pups that are in competion hunters hands are showing up in the winners circles at young ages. im sorry but 5 titled dogs out of 100 does not do it for me, and that will get you on the list. this is not pointed at any dog in particular, just my line of thinking in general

__________________
the oldest ride in the park, but still the longest line.

Good post Rance

That helped to get an insight, thank you.

__________________
"If you are mad as hell and aren't gonna take it anymore, grab your rifle and head outside. If you're the only one with a rifle screaming like a maniac, go back inside. It isn't time yet."

quote:

---

[i]


im not worried about long haired dogs, i got one myself and seen her stand up just fine in the absolute toughest of conditions, i guess the dog and the hunter just need to be as tough as each other. bring your dogs down to the briars, heat, and dust of south georgia and we will see who gives out first and who can consistantly tree coon in these conditions.

something to think about-every dog or line has a fault, if mine is in the looks i know what the fault is, where are the others faults hidden and do you want to find out firsthand for yourself?


[/B]

---

__________________
"If you are mad as hell and aren't gonna take it anymore, grab your rifle and head outside. If you're the only one with a rifle screaming like a maniac, go back inside. It isn't time yet."

Rance good post

__________________
Troy Wolverton
Wolvertons Blue Bawlin Kennels
home of
Ch.Wolvertons Southern Blue Boomer
Gone but never forgotten
Gr.Nite.Ch.Gr.Ch.Pr Wolvertons Southern Blue Bawls HTX 2
Proud members of the BBOA and BBCHA

What do you think I need to breed my new Blue gyp too? She is line bred on Northern Blue Levi I think. I'll post her pedigree later. Her sire is Undertaker and her mama is Star that is also Durango's mother.

rob,

you might be right about long haried dogs having a tough time in the heat, but i think you are completely wrong about hunting being tougher in your part of the country in the summer than down in south georgia. it gets just as hot if not hotter down here plus a whole heck of alot more humidity which makes a world of difference. i like to think highly of my gyp, so maybe she is just one of the minority of long haired dogs that can hold up to it and she is really all of a reference i got. my other females breed that way arent as course haried.

rocky,

if i was you i would have a hard time in not breeding her this time to what you have at your house, if you went elsewhere and distance didnt matter i would have to say rattler. rattler is smokey river/jet 5 and your gyp is jet 5 on top and i believe she might go back to the buck dog on bottomside which is old hammer breeding, all that stuff should cross together well. rattler is my number one choice right now, if the blood ought to cross well im going to always say him. if you were thinking of something closer, i would take a hunt with chris pooles boomer dog or tyree boones bo dog and go from there. boomer would really tighten the jet blood up and bo would tigten up the levi blood by doubling up on bingo but also add in some spanky.

__________________
the oldest ride in the park, but still the longest line.

Rance, i thank you for your confidence in the old dog.

I would like to mention first that i have bred some top females to stud dogs that cover about all the different strains in our breed. I never try to let jealousy stand in my way of producing winners. There are unfortunately not many other breeders that can boast doing the same.
While studding Bullet during his prime (2-6) i heard it all as why a man would not breed his good female to him, most commonly it was attributed to his monkey face. (By the way i would like to add that according to Gary Vining, Bullet,being campaigned the same time as Balls stylish Harry drew him 3 times and won the cast all of them.) (The breeder of Bullet bred only one female to him and she proved to be one of the breeds sorriest reproducers, so no favors was done there.) Our breed is riddled with jealousy, that is what is holding us back.There are holes in every dog out there and it is easy to come up with reasons if you do not breed to a certain stud. If more people did there homework by researching, and hunting with a dog before they choose a stud instead of wanting to be some breeders buddy we would have the number of winners that the walkers are putting up. I have owned 3 dogs that have made the top reproducers list , Lonnie Utchman is the only other person i know of to do this."HOMEWORK" paying off !
So this being said it easy to tell i am disgusted. I am to the point i dont care if i ever breed one of my male dogs to an outside female.
Rattler is lighter colored with longer hair, he is throwing some lighter colored pups as well as very dark pups, there are very few longer haired ones.
My personal experience with the longer haired dogs differ from others i guess, they may get hot in the summer but i have not seen it to the point where it affects their abilities to tree coon. In fact Rattler was campaigned during the summer mos. going from nothing to Gr nt in 11 hunts.HMMMMM
Rattler has not been campaigned in the last few years but there are very few dogs that have won what he has. I do not use high powered handlers to make my dogs, what has been accomplished by these potlickers is done by me. The folks that have been around for awhile know what he has won.
The last 2 yrs he has had pups place at bluetick days, prior to that one of my pups won king of the hunt there. One of my grandpups won queen of hunt the next year. Rattler won king of hunt at the reunion himself.(300 dogs)
Rattler excelled as a track dog, he would run off and leave other dogs, i had many competiters tell me he was a walker dog wrapped up in a blue hide.He is a good treedog but is reproducing OUTSTANDING , CLASSY treedogs, as well as ones that can jerk the head of other dogs in a cast on a track. He is extremely independant and is throwing this in his offspring, there are very few me too dogs coming out of him. He like his daddy is reproducing very intelligent , well mannered pups, they are very eager to please there masters . I walk around autumn oaks with Rattler not using a leash.
I have bred some sorry females to him and gotten extremely nice pups, we have not had the luxery of having folks carry loads top females to us. I When it is all said in done he is going to be recognized just as his daddy was, after he is gone.
I do know that there is some other outstanding reproducers among us and am utilizing them myself.But a person must take into consideration the whole picture, the quality of females being bred to them and how many make coon dogs from these litters.
Rattler at this time has only 171 pups on the ground but I look forward to the next couple years competing with some of these very nice young dogs i have around. I am not having much time to hunt now as i am in college but i will always try and make the reunion and bluetick days, hope to see some of ya there!

quote:

---

Originally posted by rance56
hammer 18, maybe the last of a long great line, some real top hounds out there directly off him that are still getting it done, get it while you can cause you might never find another hammer stud like him again.

---

Re: just curious

quote:

---

Originally posted by bullofthewoods
. The only thing about Rattler that I have heard that might be concidered a "hole" in the dog is a lack of track power. I dont know as I have never hunted with the dog and all I have to go by is what other people say. Please believe me I am not trying to start trouble I am just trying to get better informed.

---

__________________
Jim Wigley
Burr Oak Blueticks

Rob

quote:

---

[i]Originally posted by Rob Ellett [ oh well I tried. Come on up this summer and lets run the hair off them!! [/B]

---

__________________
" OLD' DIAMOND JIM " LONG LIVE THE KING OF COONHOUNDS.

ROB

SHOOT, IM GONNA APOLIGIZE RIGHT NOW FOR MY LAST POST IN CASE YOU FIND IT OFFENSIVE. IM SORRY AND IM NOT LOOKING TO STIR UP TROUBLE. I JUST KNOW FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE THAT COURSE HAIR DOESNT SLOW MIN DOWN ONE BIT IN THE SUMMER...........OH YA !! WHAT IS HARD ABOUT HUNTING CORN FIELDS. LOL

__________________
" OLD' DIAMOND JIM " LONG LIVE THE KING OF COONHOUNDS.

Rance sent PM to you Thanks.