UKC Forums - Another dandy scoring question

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-- Another dandy scoring question (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=78098)

Posted by on 10-12-2006 10:36 PM:

I don't believe 3(d) and 4(e) conflict. 3(d) refers to when a dog is declared treed. Once the dog is no longer treed, the rule no longer applies.

Posted by Dan Dogs on 10-12-2006 10:51 PM:

jim

your thinking makes sense,but any more i wouldn't bet my left nut on anything!!LOL

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Posted by on 10-12-2006 10:56 PM:

Me neither!

Posted by Bruce Conkey on 10-13-2006 01:49 PM:

UKC official please give opinon of this question. Thanks!!

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Posted by Dan Dogs on 10-13-2006 03:36 PM:

btt

Posted by Todd K / UKC on 10-13-2006 04:04 PM:

Geez, gimme a break. I don't check the rule question threads anymore. That's AG's job. But since he's not here I'll say this.

It's always been my understanding that the shutout dog cannot receive plus or minus strike points unless he ends up on a different tree. We've never minused them for quitting and coming in or time getting them. I think it was explained to me as one of those since there is nothing to gain, there can be nothing to lose situations. I've never thought about them catching a coon on the ground? But on a caught coon, I would be inclined to plus the strike as catching the coon is finishing the separate track with a coon (the same as treeing it).

Maybe this one needs to be revisited. But in the past it has always been interpreted litteraly that he cannot recieve plus or minus unless he trees on a separate tree.

Posted by on 10-13-2006 04:24 PM:

Well it darn sure makes no sense at all. What the rule says is if a dog is so slow to find a coon that the other dogs are already treed, we will let that slow coon finding dog quit it's track or walk into the cast and not get minused. Kinda a reward for being so slow that the dog can't find a coon until the other dogs tree a coon. Like I said, if you apply too much logic to these rules you will come up short every time.

I'm betting nearly every judge out there considers shut out points to be scored unless the shutout dog covers the dog that shut it out.

Put this one on the MOH test and see how many get it.

Posted by jay brademeyer on 10-13-2006 04:24 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Not too sure about that Berger. One minute left.... I think you can, within the rules, walk that long before cutting the dogs. Is walking off the last 15 minutes against the rules?

you can't walk time off a hunt. what would walking do ? if you were burning time i would just set.lol ive scored on 3 seperate coons in under 30 min. two seperate times. it ain't over till it's over.

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Posted by Dan Dogs on 10-13-2006 04:28 PM:

jim

just goes to show ya, never bet your family jewels even if it's just one!!!LOL

Posted by on 10-13-2006 04:34 PM:

Have you ever walked more than a minute before recasting in UKC? If the judge or guide says "we need to walk to the other side of this field to recast", that is what you do. If that walk takes 7 minutes and you only have 6 minute of hunt time, you have just walked off the hunt. As far as I know, UKC doesn't specify any set amount of time the cast must walk before recasting. It is up to the judge and/or guide. What we do know is that if the walk to recast exceeds 15 minutes, we can subtract those 15 minutes from the hunt time. If the walk is less than 15 minutes, it is hunt time used.

Posted by GayleFlowers on 10-13-2006 04:39 PM:

OH Lord please forgive me for all the dog's I have Minused for forty five Yrs.

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Posted by Dan Dogs on 10-13-2006 04:42 PM:

yep Gayle

you probably screwed up history!!!LMFAO and i the same!!

Posted by Bruce Conkey on 10-13-2006 04:49 PM:

What we use to judge dogs on is finding a coon track, having enough brains to finish any track started and stay at the tree with the coon until the cast arrived.

The babblers have stolen the show from the honest strike dogs.
Loopholes in the rules now give the track quiter an out.
Walker dogs have greatly deminished the chances of finding a coon in the tree.

Time to go fishing!!

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Posted by elvis on 10-13-2006 05:41 PM:

seriously,i dont recall ever seeing this situation change a cast winner,but it could,as in the original post.
most guys will just say minuss my dog if it walks in.
i knew how ukc would rule on it so i just kinda kept it in my back pocket for if i ever needed it.LOL

Posted by Dan Dogs on 10-13-2006 05:46 PM:

elvis

what do you tell them when they say minus my dog? OK will do LMFAO!!!!

Posted by on 10-13-2006 05:46 PM:

The problem Elvis is that 3 out of 4 will outvote you on this one and don't count on finding a MOH that will know any better. Sure, you still have the Formal Complaint process but by then you will have been booed out of the clubhouse.

Posted by jay brademeyer on 10-13-2006 07:44 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Bruce Conkey
What we use to judge dogs on is finding a coon track, having enough brains to finish any track started and stay at the tree with the coon until the cast arrived.

The babblers have stolen the show from the honest strike dogs.
Loopholes in the rules now give the track quiter an out.
Walker dogs have greatly deminished the chances of finding a coon in the tree.

Time to go fishing!!

there are slick treeing idiots in every breed . there are alot of walker dogs out there so your chances of seeing more slick treeing walkers stands to reason , but that is probably why ther are more good walkers than there are good in the other breeds, because of the numbers that is..ive been hunting these hounds for over 29 years and i wouldn't go back in time for nothing. oh ya there were good dogs back then, but not very many. and you could have a very nice dog , breed it and get nothing . they wouldn't produce. and have you ever tried to beg a pup to tree? it isn't fun ,and most that you have to beg won't .
good luck with old blue

Posted by Donnie Stevens on 10-13-2006 07:59 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by todd kellam
.

It's always been my understanding that the shutout dog cannot receive plus or minus strike points unless he ends up on a different tree.

I've never thought about them catching a coon on the ground? But on a caught coon, I would be inclined to plus the strike as catching the coon is finishing the separate track with a coon (the same as treeing it).

According to the way you are interpreting the rule,you can't have it both ways.Either the dog treed on a different tree or it didn't.

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Posted by Dan Dogs on 10-13-2006 08:02 PM:

you

wouldn't think a dog that can't get minus points could get plused!!

Posted by berger on 10-14-2006 05:28 PM:

moral of story

Award dog for striking HONESTLY and finishing track, but PLEASE don't penalize the BABBLER.

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Posted by moh on 10-14-2006 10:01 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by todd kellam
Geez, gimme a break. I don't check the rule question threads anymore. That's AG's job. But since he's not here I'll say this.

It's always been my understanding that the shutout dog cannot receive plus or minus strike points unless he ends up on a different tree. We've never minused them for quitting and coming in or time getting them. I think it was explained to me as one of those since there is nothing to gain, there can be nothing to lose situations. I've never thought about them catching a coon on the ground? But on a caught coon, I would be inclined to plus the strike as catching the coon is finishing the separate track with a coon (the same as treeing it).

Maybe this one needs to be revisited. But in the past it has always been interpreted litteraly that he cannot recieve plus or minus unless he trees on a separate tree.

If this is the case, and the dog shutout on strike is the only dog off of the leash, would you turn the others loose or wait the 8 minutes before turning them loose? How long could this shutout dog hold a strike or how many times could it come into the cast without it being minused?

Posted by moh on 10-15-2006 06:05 PM:

btt

Posted by elvis on 10-15-2006 08:51 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by moh
If this is the case, and the dog shutout on strike is the only dog off of the leash, would you turn the others loose or wait the 8 minutes before turning them loose? How long could this shutout dog hold a strike or how many times could it come into the cast without it being minused?

you put the 8 on him and if he barks release the dogs.
if the 8 gets him,delete his strike points.
if he walks in,delete his strike points.

Posted by Rip on 10-15-2006 09:03 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by elvis
you put the 8 on him and if he barks release the dogs.
if the 8 gets him,delete his strike points.
if he walks in,delete his strike points.

Yep

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Posted by Mutt on 10-15-2006 10:33 PM:

I think Jim's final response is correct. I do not agree with TK or anyone else. Think about it like this.... you're waiting for eight, the dog opens and you cast dogs B and C. They go into dog A and strike. According to everyone else they would then go in for 100 and 75 respectively. How can that be possible? If dog A's strike doesn't count until he ends up at a tree then B and C would have to go in for a new set of strike points or B and C are being re-cast on a track that doesn't count according to most of you.

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