UKC Forums - Do we UNMINUS these points too???

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-- Do we UNMINUS these points too??? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=494903)

Posted by jackbob42 on 04-06-2012 05:52 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Cornbelt
....... So we resumed the shine time and found that there was a coon in Dog B's tree and there was another on the broken branch going from A's tree to B's tree.

So you think that a coon went up both trees?
If so , he left one to go cover another. Doesn't he deserve minus for doing that?
If not , bottom line is he left his tree. Minus him.

If you have several tree trunks coming out of the ground together , and a dog is treeing on one and the coon is in another , I can buy that.
But , a dog bouncing between two trees 20 feet apart , should get minused whether they touch or not.

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Posted by JiM on 04-06-2012 06:19 PM:

Kyle. I haven't seen anyone saying the dog must be where the coon went up. What I am saying is he can't cover two different places at the same time, pick one or the other. But of course they can because UKC says they can. So that's how we judge it.

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Posted by The Walker Way on 04-08-2012 10:31 PM:

Unminus

another senario dog catches coon and kills it then comes in to cast cast processes in dir an d fins dead con do u still want to unminus it

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Posted by R K Stroud on 04-09-2012 12:23 AM:

Here is a litle different sereneo. Dog is struck and treed. Cast proceeds to tree after 5 is up and dog is handled. The tree is a small tree and the cast shines for about 4 minutes and handler of dog says he is satisied that the tree is slick. He minuses his points and calls time out. As he is unleasing his dog from the tree he looks up the tree and not 1 but 2 coons are looking at him. The other cast members tell him he still has time left in the ten to go ahead and plus the tree, but he refuses because he has already scored the tree and the minus stands. Was this the right call. This happened on a hunt last night.

Posted by Cornbelt on 04-09-2012 05:36 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Kyle. I haven't seen anyone saying the dog must be where the coon went up. What I am saying is he can't cover two different places at the same time, pick one or the other. But of course they can because UKC says they can. So that's how we judge it.

That's a fair point. Ideally the dog should decide where he is parking and stay parked.

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Posted by Randy Howard on 04-09-2012 05:18 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by R K Stroud
Here is a litle different sereneo. Dog is struck and treed. Cast proceeds to tree after 5 is up and dog is handled. The tree is a small tree and the cast shines for about 4 minutes and handler of dog says he is satisied that the tree is slick. He minuses his points and calls time out. As he is unleasing his dog from the tree he looks up the tree and not 1 but 2 coons are looking at him. The other cast members tell him he still has time left in the ten to go ahead and plus the tree, but he refuses because he has already scored the tree and the minus stands. Was this the right call. This happened on a hunt last night.

Thats a good question?Most would have taken the plus if still time if all agreed???Good question very puzzling?

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Posted by JiM on 04-09-2012 05:27 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by R K Stroud
Here is a litle different sereneo. Dog is struck and treed. Cast proceeds to tree after 5 is up and dog is handled. The tree is a small tree and the cast shines for about 4 minutes and handler of dog says he is satisied that the tree is slick. He minuses his points and calls time out. As he is unleasing his dog from the tree he looks up the tree and not 1 but 2 coons are looking at him. The other cast members tell him he still has time left in the ten to go ahead and plus the tree, but he refuses because he has already scored the tree and the minus stands. Was this the right call. This happened on a hunt last night.

I think it was the right call. The tree was scored, timeout was called, it's a done deal. But these are the questions that will keep coming up every weekend now that the door is opened.

Posted by Okie Dawg on 04-09-2012 05:38 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by mleck
One tree at the top is not one tree at the bottom in my opinion and I side with Jim.

two seperate dogs on two different tree trunks can be scored as one and I agree. but a dog that running back and fourth on trees that could be 30-50 feet apart should be minused even if it is one tree at the top. A dog must stay treed. With UKC allowing this movement gives power to the old myth "treeing under the canopy" if a dog is circling a tree canopy that is 40' in diameter he would be minused with me judging and the samething as for a dog bouncing back and fourth between bases of a tree that is a distance apart

You can't minuse a dog if it is under the canopy looking up barking. I have seen a lot of dogs that will tree like that if they have had a lot of coon out to them. They learn to try to find the coon in the tree. If you minuse for it you are not going by the rules and the only ones that you will get by that with is people that don't know the rules or are afraid of putting a ? on the card.

Dogs like that will be under the coon if he sees it. Even if it timbers and there is no scent on the tree.

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Posted by john Duemmer on 04-09-2012 05:40 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by R K Stroud
Here is a litle different sereneo. Dog is struck and treed. Cast proceeds to tree after 5 is up and dog is handled. The tree is a small tree and the cast shines for about 4 minutes and handler of dog says he is satisied that the tree is slick. He minuses his points and calls time out. As he is unleasing his dog from the tree he looks up the tree and not 1 but 2 coons are looking at him. The other cast members tell him he still has time left in the ten to go ahead and plus the tree, but he refuses because he has already scored the tree and the minus stands. Was this the right call. This happened on a hunt last night.

I dont see a problem with correcting the card, shine time hadnt expired and even though time out had been called we know UKC. allows us to score a tree during timeout as long as the dog was treed before timeout was called.
If we want to see the dog that does the best job win the cast we gotta plus em when they are right and minus em when they are wrong.

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Posted by Okie Dawg on 04-09-2012 05:44 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
I dont see a problem with correcting the card, shine time hadnt expired and even though time out had been called we know UKC. allows us to score a tree during timeout as long as the dog was treed before timeout was called.
If we want to see the dog that does the best job win the cast we gotta plus em when they are right and minus em when they are wrong.

I thought you had to call time back in before you could score a tree unless hunt time was over before you got to the tree.

Posted by JiM on 04-09-2012 05:49 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
I dont see a problem with correcting the card, shine time hadnt expired and even though time out had been called we know UKC. allows us to score a tree during timeout as long as the dog was treed before timeout was called.
If we want to see the dog that does the best job win the cast we gotta plus em when they are right and minus em when they are wrong.

John, the Advisor states that shinetime stops when the tree is scored. But of course in this day and age of "oops, lets do that one over", I'm sure UKC will agree with you that we can score the tree, call time, then uncall time and unscored, rescore and then call time again. Just like Burger King....HAVE YOUR WAY!!!!

Posted by john Duemmer on 04-09-2012 06:02 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
John, the Advisor states that shinetime stops when the tree is scored. But of course in this day and age of "oops, lets do that one over", I'm sure UKC will agree with you that we can score the tree, call time, then uncall time and unscored, rescore and then call time again. Just like Burger King....HAVE YOUR WAY!!!!

Jim i dont know that UKC. would agree with me, they may well rule that the minus would have to stand. I simply gave an opinion that would have the scorecard accurately reflect what the dog actually did.

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Posted by Okie Dawg on 04-09-2012 10:38 PM:

I think any time a MISTAKE is made AND you know FOR SURE a dog got minused when it shouldn't had. The score should be fixed. Isn't that what good sportsmen do? We do have judges that are capeable of makeing mistakes. What is the big deal if they miss a call and fix it?

Posted by Tim MACHA on 04-10-2012 01:16 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Okie Dawg
I think any time a MISTAKE is made AND you know FOR SURE a dog got minused when it shouldn't had. The score should be fixed. Isn't that what good sportsmen do? We do have judges that are capeable of makeing mistakes. What is the big deal if they miss a call and fix it?

We have to draw the line somewhere. The other night I struck off another man's dog. I took my minus, maybe I should have said I wanted a do over. lol

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Posted by GA DAWG on 04-10-2012 01:57 AM:

Maybe give us all a mulligan to use on every cast lol.

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Posted by jackbob42 on 04-10-2012 02:03 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Okie Dawg
I think any time a MISTAKE is made AND you know FOR SURE a dog got minused when it shouldn't had. The score should be fixed. Isn't that what good sportsmen do? We do have judges that are capeable of makeing mistakes. What is the big deal if they miss a call and fix it?

Fixing a mistake ain't no big deal.
But , to me , allowing a dog to move from one tree to another is.

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Posted by Okie Dawg on 04-10-2012 04:06 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Tim MACHA
We have to draw the line somewhere. The other night I struck off another man's dog. I took my minus, maybe I should have said I wanted a do over. lol

That is kind of backwards to what we are talking about. You did just what we are saying needs to be done. You made a mistake and was man enough to correct it. Did you not have to minuse your strike after you knew you made a mistake?
That is what we are saying. When you make a mistake and EVERYONE knows it then you should be able to correct it.

Posted by l.lyle on 04-10-2012 06:33 AM:

Interview the greatest Handler you ever saw and ask him if he ever "pitched" a dog in. If he says "yes" ,"because there was 3 minuites and 49 .8 seconds left in the hunt", then he can be our hero flavor of the month club. If he says "No" he probably aint that great of a handler anyway. We will figure he is kind of dumb and slow.

Posted by Night Shift on 04-10-2012 07:02 AM:

Jim

I disagree with you If a two trees are scored as one tree then a dog can go back and forth Its being scored as one tree. Its like a dog that sits off a tree and runs back to it. I would not want my dog to do this but that is how you score it.

Posted by l.lyle on 04-10-2012 07:45 AM:

You have described a curdog characteristic. Close to getting a minus every time. Don't you know that a coondog is supposed to hookup with both feet and bellyrub and bough and curtsey when the judge gets there?
I saw a new line I like pretty good but they ain't caught on yet but they will. They tree on the tree and lift a front leg and point , like a pointer , to where the coon is at in the tree while cutting looose 150 barks per minuite. I recon these old belly rubbers will be a thing of the passed before you know it.

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