UKC Forums - Htx Titles Should Have To Come First

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-- Htx Titles Should Have To Come First (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=491976)

Posted by Cowboyred on 03-22-2012 08:37 PM:

Re: Htx Titles Should Have To Come First

quote:
Originally posted by DROPTINE
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE UKC MAKE IT MANDATORY THAT BEFORE A DOG CAN BE TITLED SHOW OR NITE CHAMPION IT SHOULD HAVE TO PROVE FIRST THAT IT CAN TREE A REAL LIVE COON BY ITSELF LETS SEE HOW MANY CAN DO IT OR LETS COME OUT WITH A NEW MAGAZINE TITLED HTX STUDS BET IT WONT BE SO MANY TO CHOSE FROM LOL

Performance testing prior to being allowed to compete for degrees needs to be done by the owner. Nothing at all wrong with passing a HTX first just to shut people up if that's what it takes, assuming there are any available to you. If someone wants to enter and compete with a dog that can't find, run and tree a coon who cares, let 'em, it's thier money. Lots of dogs in the hunts don't meet the breed standard, but who cares, let 'em enter, it's their money.

When it comes time to breed, then it's a different story. Both parents better be able to do it on their own. No piece of paper/title/degree can prove that. Due diligence-hunting with a stud, its parents, siblings and pups/ talking with people who have hunted with related dogs-this is what weeds out those "paper" champs.

Question; could someone/anyone name ONE of these counterfeit/cheap/paper Gr.Nt.Ch.'s that has had ANY, i repeat ANY impact on a breed? I'm gonna bet this will be a really short list and I doubt that there will even be a response.

Posted by goodtimekennel on 03-22-2012 08:52 PM:

JUST IN CASE ANY OF YOU WHO LOVE HTX

YOU ARE ALL WELCOME TO COME AND HUNT WITH ME TONIGHT OR ANY NIGHT YOU WOULD LIKE I WILL SHOW YOU A NT CH THAT WILL TREE A COON AND NOT LEAVE THE TREE

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Posted by DROPTINE on 03-22-2012 10:00 PM:

I am not saying all ntch and grnts are fake I have seen alot of good ones and I also have tried a bunch that I wouldnt give 50 cents for I drove an hour plus and tried a grand nite male 4 years old and the boy was askin 1800 for him I was pissed as soon as I seen the dog he was so thin you could see his spine and we walked for an hour to three trees and never seen a coon we did find a squirel nest in the last one but the other two i could almost bend them to the ground they were so small so tgis is what got me so pissed

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Posted by DROPTINE on 03-22-2012 10:02 PM:

And as for show dogs I would like to see the judges go for the hunting dogs over the house dogs

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Posted by Tully on 03-22-2012 10:38 PM:

Here's an idea

Why not feed what you want rather than worry what other people do with their hounds. Hunting or Showing, it's each persons business what they like, want, and what they do. Why should UKC be asked to moderate more than they already do.

Remember to vote Obama AGAIN in the upcoming election, since that's how you want coon hunting to be too!

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Posted by starplott on 03-22-2012 10:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by DROPTINE
And as for show dogs I would like to see the judges go for the hunting dogs over the house dogs

It really doesn't matter does it?

Why does it matter to you what the dog on the bench does or doesn't? Why should it matter to you if it lives in the house?

Until it is mandated that only total dogs can compete, everybody has the same rights and options.

I get so sick of the onesided gripes on this topic. You want a hunting dog that wins in the shows, BREED for it!

As long as people breed for just show or just hunt, that is what is going to be out there; either show dog or hunting dog.

When majority of breeders breed for the total dog the quality will change. Until then, no sense whining about judges putting up 'show' dogs.

You can't just breed coondog to coondog without concern to structure, movement, correct type and expect to get winning show dogs.

You want hunting dogs that win on the bench...BREED for it. Breed only dogs with type, movement, correct structure, that hunt. Quit breeding hunting dogs that don't meet physical standards just because they hunt.

It is just as stupid for a show dog breeder to complain about their dogs not having hunt instinct when all they breed for is structure as it is to hear your whines.

You get what you breed for....

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Posted by ncplotts on 03-22-2012 10:46 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by starplott
It really doesn't matter does it?

Why does it matter to you what the dog on the bench does or doesn't? Why should it matter to you if it lives in the house?

Until it is mandated that only total dogs can compete, everybody has the same rights and options.

I get so sick of the onesided gripes on this topic. You want a hunting dog that wins in the shows, BREED for it!

As long as people breed for just show or just hunt, that is what is going to be out there; either show dog or hunting dog.

When majority of breeders breed for the total dog the quality will change. Until then, no sense whining about judges putting up 'show' dogs.
Best post on here!!!!
You can't just breed coondog to coondog without concern to structure, movement, correct type and expect to get winning show dogs.

You want hunting dogs that win on the bench...BREED for it. Breed only dogs with type, movement, correct structure, that hunt. Quit breeding hunting dogs that don't meet physical standards just because they hunt.

It is just as stupid for a show dog breeder to complain about their dogs not having hunt instinct when all they breed for is structure as it is to hear your whines.

You get what you breed for....

Best post on here!!!!

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Posted by grwaskom on 03-22-2012 11:03 PM:

why if htx are just a joke only about 30% of the dogs entered pass. it would take a better dog to tree a coon by itself , then with 3 other dogs. O trees mean nothing. only coons seen count,
no 400 minus. 2 faults and you fail.
try it before you run your sucks. maybe if you pass you can boost the average.

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Posted by Jack Bingham on 03-22-2012 11:08 PM:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by grwaskom
[B]why if htx are just a joke only about 30% of the dogs entered pass.

BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE A COON DOG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Posted by l.lyle on 03-22-2012 11:52 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
HTX is aimed squarely at those who don't have the confidence in their dogs or themselves to put their dog in a four dog randomly drawn cast. But they want their dog to have the honor of a title so that gets them the HTX title. Problem is the HTX titles have zero credibility with the coonhunting masses. So the HTX guys want to find a way to tie HTX to Nite Hunt titles in an effort to gain some of that credibility. And that is all this is really about.

It is not what it is really all about. I don't think HTX should be mandatory. Evidently Nite Hunt titles don't carry the credibility people suppose they should carry either among the coon hunting masses and seems like less credibility all the time.

I probably don't have the confidence to put a dog in a four dog randomly drawn cast. I used to comp hunt a little and know it takes practice. That means calling it pleasure hunting while toting a stopwatch and I won't do that. When I hunt I just call it coonhunting. When I hunt with friends I call it pleasure hunting. Practice hunting is what I would call pleasure hunting with a stopwatch and continuously doing a play by play of the rules scenario in my head. Wears me out just thinking about it. Then if my dog did not win often enough to suit me I would get a better comp type dog and end up with the same type of dogs I could hardly stand to hunt when I quit comp hunting. Plus, I am getting deafer, I can walk fine but I don't like to if I don't have to walk forever. It is just not my thing anymore.

I agree on the face of it HTX only means a dog can tree coons and make few mistakes. That's all. Could be a mean dog. Could be a loner all kinds of faults not uncovered, might be slow.

I can understand anybody with a hot winner not wanting to subject himself to the howls and Jowls back at the clubhouse if the only dog to get a pass that night was a kid with a dog. LOL

Posted by jackbob42 on 03-23-2012 12:48 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Trey M
There you go ,how many mistakes does everybodys dog make? Like I said I havent hunted in one so I don't know how many mistakes my dog makes but i'll find out when a HTX hunt comes closer to the house. That i'll know what to work on with my dog. Bottom line we all want our dogs to be the best to thier ability.

WHAT?
YOU DON'T KNOW HOW MANY MISTAKES YOUR DOG MAKE?

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Posted by grwaskom on 03-23-2012 01:03 AM:

Jack Bingham

BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE A COON DOG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

that must mean 70% of the dogs out there arent coondogs. so the htx hunts must be harder than nite hunts

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Posted by GA DAWG on 03-23-2012 01:29 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by grwaskom
Jack Bingham

BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE A COON DOG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

that must mean 70% of the dogs out there arent coondogs. so the htx hunts must be harder than nite hunts

And that must mean 70% on here to. Who'd of thunk it. Plus I bet that 30% is increasing weekly.

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Posted by Jack Bingham on 03-23-2012 01:32 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by grwaskom
Jack Bingham

BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE A COON DOG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

that must mean 70% of the dogs out there arent coondogs. so the htx hunts must be harder than nite hunts

Not even close i have judged several hunt test probably 70% passed the other 30% never will be coondogs. But just because they pass a hunt test does not make them a comp. dog or a coon dog. In a hunt test a dog can beat a track to death for 59 minutes get treed. Tree for 5 minutes and it gets a pass. Or stand around you in and out to where it won't get scratched for lack of hunt then get treed at the 58 minute mark and pass.

Now you tell me if a dog like this gets a HTX title how good is that for any breed to use as a Stud dog. lacks track speed or drive. wouldn't even make a good pleasure dog.

Now you throw this dog in a cast of his peers he don't stand a chance the others will make 2-3 trees while this one is killing a track. The name of the game is to tree coons not track coons.

Posted by JiM on 03-23-2012 01:33 AM:

Seems like there are a bunch on here that think THEY are the only ones that own a COONDAWG, the rest of us are just feeding a bunch of chiteaters. You see these guys going on with the same basic song about all the GrNt's that won't hunt alone, can't tree a coon, blah,blah,blah. Then you notice the Grand Nite in their signature line and you ask them if theirs is a counterfeit too and they are like "Oh hell no, MY GrNt gets it done!" I just smile.

The GrNt I feed has been hunted in hunts all over this part of the country for 3 years now and just about anybody and everybody that comp hunts in this part of the world has seen her go at one time or another. And whatever they may think about her, it will be based on what they seen, not what they heard and sure as hell not what I tell them.

You think you got something? Put it out there in a cast and let us SEE what you got in a format that you can't control. Otherwise, you're just blowing smoke.

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Posted by l.lyle on 03-23-2012 02:36 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
And that must mean 70% on here to. Who'd of thunk it. Plus I bet that 30% is increasing weekly.

That % question would be a good one for Allen or Todd. In the program, how many dogs have been entered and how many hold an HTX title? OR; how many total entries and how many got a pass? Or both! I bet fewer dogs make it Bam, Bam, Bam, in three tries than 5 or 6 tries.

That's another thing an HTX title does not tell you but then again Nt Ch does not tell you if a dog was entered in 3 or 23 hunts either. LOL

Posted by GA DAWG on 03-23-2012 02:50 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by l.lyle
That % question would be a good one for Allen or Todd. In the program, how many dogs have been entered and how many hold an HTX title? OR; how many total entries and how many got a pass? Or both! I bet fewer dogs make it Bam, Bam, Bam, in three tries than 5 or 6 tries.

That's another thing an HTX title does not tell you but then again Nt Ch does not tell you if a dog was entered in 3 or 23 hunts either. LOL

That's what they should tell us. Plus where they did it

I said that last post wrong. The number I think is changing is the 70% failure rate. I bet its going up. All I know is folks can talk all they want. We had 7 dogs and one is all that passed. My crap eater failed to. I've never claimed mine to be perfect though. I don't sit at the house in my own little fantasy world though

I didn't whine and cry about where I had to hunt. I just cut loose and slick treed what seemed like a mile in there lol. Nobody's fault but my dogs.

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Posted by Joe Warren on 03-23-2012 03:10 AM:

Re: Htx Titles Should Have To Come First

quote:
Originally posted by DROPTINE
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE UKC MAKE IT MANDATORY THAT BEFORE A DOG CAN BE TITLED SHOW OR NITE CHAMPION IT SHOULD HAVE TO PROVE FIRST THAT IT CAN TREE A REAL LIVE COON BY ITSELF LETS SEE HOW MANY CAN DO IT OR LETS COME OUT WITH A NEW MAGAZINE TITLED HTX STUDS BET IT WONT BE SO MANY TO CHOSE FROM LOL

This is a great idea !

Posted by smokin-1-mo on 03-23-2012 03:18 AM:

JIM MY MAN ANOTHER GREAT POST...I THINK I HAVE ALWAYS SHOWED MINE TO ANYONE THAT WANTS TO SEE THEM GO ANYTIME.... I DONT NEED A HUNT TEST TO KNOW MINE WILL TREE COON ALONE THATS THE WAY I HUNT HIM THROUGH THE WEEK...
OUR CLUB IS DOING AWAY WITH AKC HUNTS AND REPLACING THEM WITH HTX SO IM SURE I WILL ENTER A COUPLE TO SUPPORT THE CLUB...

Posted by GA DAWG on 03-23-2012 03:25 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by smokin-1-mo
JIM MY MAN ANOTHER GREAT POST...I THINK I HAVE ALWAYS SHOWED MINE TO ANYONE THAT WANTS TO SEE THEM GO ANYTIME.... I DONT NEED A HUNT TEST TO KNOW MINE WILL TREE COON ALONE THATS THE WAY I HUNT HIM THROUGH THE WEEK...
OUR CLUB IS DOING AWAY WITH AKC HUNTS AND REPLACING THEM WITH HTX SO IM SURE I WILL ENTER A COUPLE TO SUPPORT THE CLUB...

That's about how I figure it myself. If folks have one that want go hunt and tree a coon alone. Why feed em? I don't think its as big a issue as others do. I guess I just assume most can. Evidently they cant. According to the numbers

Still it was fun and will pay the powerbill for a few months!

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Posted by tsbtater on 03-23-2012 03:30 AM:

Re: Here's an idea

quote:
Originally posted by Tully
Why not feed what you want rather than worry what other people do with their hounds. Hunting or Showing, it's each persons business what they like, want, and what they do. Why should UKC be asked to moderate more than they already do.

Remember to vote Obama AGAIN in the upcoming election, since that's how you want coon hunting to be too!

BINGO!!!! WE HAVE A WINNER!!!! END OF DISCUSSION!!!!

Hunt what suits you, show what suits you, Know what you have on the end of your lead, and investigate what you breed to to see if it will suit you.

Posted by bluetickman2002 on 03-23-2012 03:41 AM:

hell why dont yall make it like horse raceing and get the govorment involved state vet to inspect your animal before it can compete and state officials to judge and fine you or put you in jail for cheating.

or just get rid of all the titles then people would have to get off their ass and have to go hunt with some dogs instead of looking at initials on a piece of paper

if you get a bad one cull it it happens but dont blame someone else

how many of you have bought a pup or dog without hunting with either of the parents or siblings?

if you dont do your homework dont blame someone else for your bad grades!!!!

Posted by GA DAWG on 03-23-2012 03:55 AM:

I've flip flopped 2 or 3 times on this thread lol. I Dern sure don't want it to have nothing to do with obama. Dang! I despise hearing his voice or seeing his picture. It should remain a choice and not be mandatory.

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Posted by patches9452 on 03-23-2012 04:13 AM:

at the very best 25% is all that can make it in a comp hunt so if 30% make it in a htx thats higher than even possible in a comp hunt... and thats if all cast come back with plus points and the big hunts you cant even get 25% winners

Posted by l.lyle on 03-23-2012 04:26 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by patches9452
at the very best 25% is all that can make it in a comp hunt so if 30% make it in a htx thats higher than even possible in a comp hunt... and thats if all cast come back with plus points and the big hunts you cant even get 25% winners

That is true but wouldn't you expect 90% of regular dogs could go out by themselves and tree a coon?

Yes 25% is all that can win in a comp cast but HTX could have 100% pass.

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