UKC Forums - Lets do away with HUNTING JUDGES

Pages (4): « 1 2 [3] 4 »
Show all 83 posts from this thread on one page

UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- Lets do away with HUNTING JUDGES (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=486555)

Posted by Larry Atherton on 02-28-2012 06:22 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Chris.S
The only thing worse than a crooked hunting judge is a crooked NON HUNTING JUDGE. The worse eyeball gouging scr... job I've ever received was at the hands of a non hunting judge!

Absolutely the same with me.

I also agree with the first part of Tully's post. Judging definitely puts me at a disadvantage, but I almost always volunteer for it.

__________________
Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

Posted by Karl Spillane on 02-29-2012 12:33 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jammie Crumpton
How about get rid of the NON HUNTING COMPUTER INTERNET HUNTERS

HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD WITH THAT ONE!!

__________________
PKC SUPERSTAKE SIRE UKC PERFORMANCE SIRE
PKC CH.NT.CH.Buck Creek Mr. Smith II
PKC CH.GR.NT.CH.DANA SHAY
PKC SCH GR.NT.CH. SKUNA RIVER SISSY (RIP)
Dual Grand Dukates Hillbilly Thunder(RIP)

"IF IT EATS HERE IT DOES WHAT IT WAS BRED TO DO"

252-308-8621

Posted by Karl Spillane on 02-29-2012 12:34 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by jeffrey robinso
It was stated in an earlier post that most people don't know what goes into putting on a hunt and that is very true. I am a member of 4 different clubs and know first hand what goes into putting on a hunt. I hear these statements about non hunting judges or why don't your club put on a RQE or big hunt. I wish UKC would make it mandatory that you had to have a card proving you were a member in good standing in a coon club to participate in UKC events then everyone would know what goes on behind the scenes to make these hunts happen and then they would think before they made these statements.

GREAT IDEA!!

Posted by Idaho Bison on 02-29-2012 01:06 AM:

I just started to participate in these events in Washington State and I am currently working on bringing them to Idaho. I don't think these events could be facilitated with out hunting judges in here.

Posted by Bruce B Nieland on 02-29-2012 01:40 AM:

people always whining about got cheated this and that. just pack a litte better hound and them problems will take care of themselves usually.

Posted by headless01 on 02-29-2012 05:22 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by karl spillane
HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD WITH THAT ONE!!

a hurt dog will hollar everytime. that's why this post is going on an on. all because some people are members of multiple clubs an put on hunts does't give them the right to cheat to win, but it does give them and their buddies the chance to make buddy buddy grand night champs by any means. judges,master of hounds, hunt directors like this are rampant in hunts. they'll tell people theiy've changed from how they used to be,their honest now,just in it to have fun. winning at all cost is fun to them. seen this honest fire fearing judge tree his dog with another mans dog one hunt an his honest spec buddy back him up with that bull saying dog was there, knowingly breaking rules. 1 dog tree'n man said an judge said he'll minus his dog if not there, '' get there minused''. judge spends rest night appoligizing for cheat'n his spec buddy was mad at man an his dog. so if you think u win a questiion when go back to club with 3 to 1 cast vote , you better think again, buddy !!!'''''' these cheat'n rule pros break the rules to win, an enforce rules to make other dog lose'''''. these are the ones that need to be barred forever an hurt hunts. take that MR winner an grinn about that. 1 more thing, theres a good chance some of buddies have been barred at 1 time, 1 buzzard always attracts another.

Posted by barrelmaker on 02-29-2012 06:34 AM:

I really don't know what the right answer is, I belonged to a good club when I lived in Missouri that really tried to treat everyone right but I hunted at others within a 150 mile radius where buddies would end up in a cast against you. I'm not a crybaby or only an internet hunter, I had the high scoring dog in the state of Missouri a couple of years ago and won the nite champion hunt at walker days(875, not 1750), I've placed in the top 4 of the world hunt a couple of times, etc. All I know is something has to be done to keep things honest, anyone who is denying this is either kidding himself or is part of the problem.

Tom

Posted by headless01 on 02-29-2012 10:00 AM:

the one' s denying it are the one's doing it,and it doesn't even phase them how they cheat and get wins. its the way they operate, i'll heip you win this time,you help me win next time, buddy. they're promoting these ghost track'n drivers an tree'n idiot's by these means,and training future MH's, hunt directors,an judges in same manner. win means money is their motto. they have it planned ,just wait'n for chance to cheat to occur.,they;ll side with buddy everytime. if you have question you lose, they label you not up standing ,an do everything so called by rules to see you don't win ever,even if they have to cheat you. i'm warming up to this post, the truth is starting to come out.

Posted by Larry Atherton on 02-29-2012 03:48 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by headless01
the one' s denying it are the one's doing it,and it doesn't even phase them how they cheat and get wins. its the way they operate, i'll heip you win this time,you help me win next time, buddy. they're promoting these ghost track'n drivers an tree'n idiot's by these means,and training future MH's, hunt directors,an judges in same manner. win means money is their motto. they have it planned ,just wait'n for chance to cheat to occur.,they;ll side with buddy everytime. if you have question you lose, they label you not up standing ,an do everything so called by rules to see you don't win ever,even if they have to cheat you. i'm warming up to this post, the truth is starting to come out.

As I have said many times before, "if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem."

__________________
Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

Posted by JiM on 02-29-2012 04:02 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by headless01
the one' s denying it are the one's doing it,and it doesn't even phase them how they cheat and get wins. its the way they operate, i'll heip you win this time,you help me win next time, buddy. they're promoting these ghost track'n drivers an tree'n idiot's by these means,and training future MH's, hunt directors,an judges in same manner. win means money is their motto. they have it planned ,just wait'n for chance to cheat to occur.,they;ll side with buddy everytime. if you have question you lose, they label you not up standing ,an do everything so called by rules to see you don't win ever,even if they have to cheat you. i'm warming up to this post, the truth is starting to come out.

So if you are correct in what you are saying, then non-hunting judges would certainly be just as corrupt as the hunting judges, the hunt directors and the Master of Hounds. If what you are saying is true, then all of it it so corrupt that nothing will make it fair.
I don't hunt everywhere but I've been around and hunted hunts in several states and haven't seen all this corruption at the clubs but I can believe it happens somewhere I suppose. And if Headless is right, then I am one of the worst cheaters out there because I haven't seen this huge problem of corruption.
If this sport was as crooked as some of you want to make it out to be, it couldn't possibly survive and yet the hunts are still alive and doing well.

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

Posted by patches9452 on 02-29-2012 04:20 PM:

i can agree it doesnt all work like it should but the only really bad call i have ever been involved with ukc made... how does ukc justify not scratching a dog for fighting on a 3 to 1 vote at the winter classic.... because according to them the judge has all authority lol.... especially when it involved the judges dog... that right there was screwed up bad but as a whole i have very little problems at the hunts whether im judgeing or not

Posted by headless01 on 02-29-2012 06:24 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by barrelmaker
I really don't know what the right answer is, I belonged to a good club when I lived in Missouri that really tried to treat everyone right but I hunted at others within a 150 mile radius where buddies would end up in a cast against you. I'm not a crybaby or only an internet hunter, I had the high scoring dog in the state of Missouri a couple of years ago and won the nite champion hunt at walker days(875, not 1750), I've placed in the top 4 of the world hunt a couple of times, etc. All I know is something has to be done to keep things honest, anyone who is denying this is either kidding himself or is part of the problem.

Tom

JIM

i did not say all is currupt. ther are some good people putting on hunts. i stated that the buddy buddy system is currupt. all because you have not wittnessed it does not make you a cheater. these people are masters of deception that weasel they're way up an misuse their position of authority. they are ones that need to be barred. its got to the point gonna have to take a lawyer an secretary with you on hunts just in case. HA HA HA!!! SIR, the hunts are not so alive an well either an this is one of reason's why, not even close to what they once where.

Posted by JiM on 02-29-2012 06:42 PM:

Well they hunted over 500 at Walker Days last weekend and that don't seem very dead to me. Heck, they hunted more than 30 at Silver Lake a couple weeks ago and that's in the dead of winter.

Posted by Robert Johnson on 02-29-2012 07:34 PM:

ITS CALLED HONOR!! If you have none, expect none. If you cheat to win, expect to be cheated. The vast majoroity of the hunting judges and hunters alike try to go by the rules as they are written. Non-hunting judges is not the answer. The answer lies totally in the name on the front of the book. Nite Hunt Honor Rules. If you allow a cheater to win knowingly, how can you face yourself in the mirrow. HONOR is something that runs deep. Honor is treating everyone equal. Honor is enforcing all rules, and not just the ones that help you win. Honor is loosing gracifully, and coming back another night without accusing someone of cheating you or your dog so they could win. HONOR is short for HONEST. If you are, most of the troubles will go away. Sure, you can get hoodwinked by a vote of dishonest handlers, but only you can allow your honor to be taken away. there are forms one can use to help get shed of dishonesty. USE THEM, keep your honor, or don't and you guessed the rest.

__________________
Robert " Rock" Johnson

Johnson Creek Kennels
home of:
UKC Grand Nite Champion "PR" Yadkin River Addkis. Deceased 12/11/2016 RIP

2009/2010/2011/2012 AKC GA. State Leader and Supreme Grand Nite Champion Yadkin River Addkis

2010 ACHA Georgia State Champion Grand Nite Champion Yadkin River Addkis

PKC Champion Yadkin River Addkis

Bright Eye Lights

Treeing Walkers

912-663-5287 cell (perfered)

Posted by Cowboyred on 02-29-2012 07:54 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Robert Johnson
ITS CALLED HONOR!! If you have none, expect none. If you cheat to win, expect to be cheated. The vast majoroity of the hunting judges and hunters alike try to go by the rules as they are written. Non-hunting judges is not the answer. The answer lies totally in the name on the front of the book. Nite Hunt Honor Rules. If you allow a cheater to win knowingly, how can you face yourself in the mirrow. HONOR is something that runs deep. Honor is treating everyone equal. Honor is enforcing all rules, and not just the ones that help you win. Honor is loosing gracifully, and coming back another night without accusing someone of cheating you or your dog so they could win. HONOR is short for HONEST. If you are, most of the troubles will go away. Sure, you can get hoodwinked by a vote of dishonest handlers, but only you can allow your honor to be taken away. there are forms one can use to help get shed of dishonesty. USE THEM, keep your honor, or don't and you guessed the rest.

AMEN!
Honesty/honor/ethics/integrety.

Posted by Wmagicwebb on 02-29-2012 09:21 PM:

how many on this thread really belong to a club

__________________
TREEPICKING KENNELS !!

HOME OF "" GR.CH. TREEPICKING MAGIC MAN
http://wmagicwebb.tripod.com Lots of us have the right Aim in life ,but most of us run out of ammunition ROGER & DORIS WEBB

Posted by Cowboyred on 02-29-2012 10:38 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Wmagicwebb
how many on this thread really belong to a club

Currently/actively 4 of them, 3 of them are 70+ miles away. Used to be in several others as well but they are no longer holding events or have shut down.

Posted by RatDog on 02-29-2012 11:45 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Robert Johnson
ITS CALLED HONOR!! If you have none, expect none. If you cheat to win, expect to be cheated. The vast majoroity of the hunting judges and hunters alike try to go by the rules as they are written. Non-hunting judges is not the answer. The answer lies totally in the name on the front of the book. Nite Hunt Honor Rules. If you allow a cheater to win knowingly, how can you face yourself in the mirrow. HONOR is something that runs deep. Honor is treating everyone equal. Honor is enforcing all rules, and not just the ones that help you win. Honor is loosing gracifully, and coming back another night without accusing someone of cheating you or your dog so they could win. HONOR is short for HONEST. If you are, most of the troubles will go away. Sure, you can get hoodwinked by a vote of dishonest handlers, but only you can allow your honor to be taken away. there are forms one can use to help get shed of dishonesty. USE THEM, keep your honor, or don't and you guessed the rest.

Great response...I think we should all print Mr. Johnsons post and post it on our clubs wall for all to read.

__________________
TEAM HOGBACK MAFIA

Posted by headless01 on 03-01-2012 12:14 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Cowboyred
Currently/actively 4 of them, 3 of them are 70+ miles away. Used to be in several others as well but they are no longer holding events or have shut down.

JIM

AMEN to cowboyreds amen. you think 30 dogs are alot of dogs in hunt? maybe now,used to be 30 an more at every hunt not count'n all the family and children. now clubs cant even break even on food cooked. you talk about walkerdays attendance, go back an check records for last 10 years,not talk'n about big hunts. you let these crooks infiltrate 3 or 4 of your surrounding clubs and it'll be gameover for a long time,and people will stop coming. other hunters see this crap an clam up bacause of their afraid to stand up. be a good little boy an we'll let you win one once in a while and advance up the latter to our holy'r than thou status, stand up or be part of problem. THE HEAT IS --------------------ON, LIKE A SUANA IN HERE!!!!

Posted by barrelmaker on 03-01-2012 01:35 AM:

HONOR

I'll give you an example of what trying to stand up to a group of cheaters gets you. A couple of years ago I had the high scoring dog of the year in the Missouri coonhunters Association. They have a big end of the year hunt each year and I entered the dog, the cast they put me in consisted of 3 club members who came to the hunt together. The first drop my dog shut the others out, the judges dog came into the tree and chewed the devil out of my dog, even as we were coming in to the tree. I told the judge the dog should be scratched, he and his buddies just laughed and he refused to scratch the dog. The next drop the dogs hit together and treed and the same thing happened, the dog was a female and my dog wouldn't even try to defend himself, had blood running off him. Again, the judge refused to scratch his dog and his buddies went along with him. I withdrew, made notation on the card and went back to the clubhouse to see the master of hounds. The cast eventually came in and guess what? the judge had the high scoring dog of the hunt. The master of hounds questioned the other cast members and they all denied the dog was aggressive. I never went back to their club and I'm not the only one, it's a shame but people seem to be getting worse every year.

Tom

Posted by Cowboyred on 03-01-2012 05:09 AM:

I'm not saying that situations like the one you described can't/don't happen, cause they sure can. I know that sometimes no matter what, you are not going to get satisfaction. But I also refuse to buy into the mentality that the "MAJORITY" are crooked cheaters willing to do whatever it takes to win. I just don't see it. Maybe there are some areas that are as bad as you described, but again I haven't seen it. And it's not like I haven't been out and about either, last year alone I hunted in six (6) different states and at two national breed days events. Every cast had a hunting judge. Were there mistakes made, sure. Were there some attempts at "liberal" interpretations of the rules, a couple. Did everything get resolved correctly, in my opinion they were and I didn't have a dog in the fight so to speak. Did everybody "play nice", nope, and several of them didn't play very long either.

The three biggest issues that I experienced were 1) people either not knowing/understanding the rules 2) getting mixed up with what KC's rules we were hunting under or blending rules from other KC's with UKC rules 3) handlers unable to recognize or unwilling to admit that the dog at the end of their lead was just not the caliber it was going to take to be competitive that night.

Posted by barrelmaker on 03-01-2012 09:06 AM:

Cheats

I didn't mean to imply that cheats are the majority, most hunters are honest as they can be but something needs to be done. Can you imagine what a basketball or football game would be like were there no referees? That's what we have, more or less and if we have to have hunting judges there should be some serious accountability if they continually cheat and some of the high profile hunters/breeders are way worse than the average Joe, Walker Days is coming up in Indiana, would you like to make a bet on who's dog will win?

Tom

Posted by Cowboyred on 03-01-2012 02:25 PM:

Nope, I haven't got a clue who to even pick as a possible contender.

Last time I went to walker days I got asked/assigned to be a back-up judge on a GrNt. cast. Did that make me like a second referee?

Posted by Outback1 on 03-01-2012 02:47 PM:

Re: Cheats

quote:
Originally posted by barrelmaker
I didn't mean to imply that cheats are the majority, most hunters are honest as they can be but something needs to be done. Can you imagine what a basketball or football game would be like were there no referees? That's what we have, more or less and if we have to have hunting judges there should be some serious accountability if they continually cheat and some of the high profile hunters/breeders are way worse than the average Joe, Walker Days is coming up in Indiana, would you like to make a bet on who's dog will win?

Tom

Hunters should just stay away from these hunts for a few years, support your local clubs, go back to enjoying coon hunting, the only way that things will change is to choke off the cash flow.

Posted by Wmagicwebb on 03-01-2012 03:26 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by karl spillane
GREAT IDEA!!

amen to that

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:08 PM.

Pages (4): « 1 2 [3] 4 »
Show all 83 posts from this thread on one page