UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- Layup Coon (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=441735)

Iv seen dogs Tree what I thought to be a coon that had been up for a while not saying it can't be done but just how do we know that to be fact??

Just because a dog runs head up & winds coon up doesn't mean that coon wasn't on the ground 25 mins ago does it???

Here in South Ga we have cutovers with standing flat ponds you can shine coon up trees from the road & come back 4 hrs later & still see them sitting. I have seen many dog claimed to be able to lay a coon up run right past them & never slow up!!! I have seen very few tree those type coon & most never even put their feet on a tree much less the right 1.

I'm not saying there is not dogs that can't do it but from my personal Experience they are very few that can & most are just blowing at the air.

Back to the ? How do you know if a coon has been layed up 6-7-8-10 hrs??????

__________________
912-424-6651

The sight part shows up mainly where the coon has gone up the tree on one where the dog first caught his scent, when he starts treeing and the coon decides to move. When it goes to cross over into another the dog is following him as he moves, a dog setting in the opening between trees, may be using more sight at that point than scent. I saw it happen more a few years back when there was a shakeout season, and you ran into one that survived it, it was hard enough to tree him, but he would not stay in the one the dog found him in. That type of dog could be use to squirrel hunt during daytime, just like a cur ..... I never did, but my buddy used his GRNT that way all his life, never had a problem after sunset !

__________________
D. Glenn Wells, Jr.
UKC MOH

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brian Ratliff
Iv seen dogs Tree what I thought to be a coon that had been up for a while not saying it can't be done but just how do we know that to be fact??

Just because a dog runs head up & winds coon up doesn't mean that coon wasn't on the ground 25 mins ago does it???

Here in South Ga we have cutovers with standing flat ponds you can shine coon up trees from the road & come back 4 hrs later & still see them sitting. I have seen many dog claimed to be able to lay a coon up run right past them & never slow up!!! I have seen very few tree those type coon & most never even put their feet on a tree much less the right 1.

I'm not saying there is not dogs that can't do it but from my personal Experience they are very few that can & most are just blowing at the air.

Back to the ? How do you know if a coon has been layed up 6-7-8-10 hrs??????

---

__________________
Let's go huntin

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rip
LOL, if the dog doesn't put it's feet on a tree and is treein on it's back legs under the coon then you should know he picked the RIGHT tree without putting his feet on it. He's under the flippin coon showin you where it is at. That's not "blowin at the air" that's treein the coon where the coon is at. A dog that can do this might be 10 feet away from the tree, under the coon treein straight up at the coon. Don't matter it still has the coon.

That would be plussed in a nite hunt, it's clear which tree the dog is treein on.

Now if he propped up on another tree that is where you might get minused.

As for trying to "test" one, that's impossible. The thermals have to be coming down otherwise they will run right under them sittin in the tree. Doesn't matter how good the dog is at layin up a coon the conditions have to be right for it to happen.

---

__________________
912-424-6651

Brian, meant no offense.

I never cared about time myself. But if no other dog there can even tell there is a coon anywhere around and one of them is blowin the top out under the coon while the rest look at them like they are crazy then that's an indication there isn't any scent left on the ground or tree so its been up long enough to dissipate the scent.

That is a different amount of time for different conditions, whether dry, wet, snow, ice etc.

__________________
Let's go huntin

brian, i am assuming that by where you live you havent the benefit of a foot snow

""Iv seen dogs Tree what I thought to be a coon that had been up for a while not saying it can't be done but just how do we know that to be fact??

Just because a dog runs head up & winds coon up doesn't mean that coon wasn't on the ground 25 mins ago does it???

Here in South Ga we have cutovers with standing flat ponds you can shine coon up trees from the road & come back 4 hrs later & still see them sitting. I have seen many dog claimed to be able to lay a coon up run right past them & never slow up!!! I have seen very few tree those type coon & most never even put their feet on a tree much less the right 1.

I'm not saying there is not dogs that can't do it but from my personal Experience they are very few that can & most are just blowing at the air.

Back to the ? How do you know if a coon has been layed up 6-7-8-10 hrs??????""" .......... ...... on occasion when there is deep snow the coon dont move then you might get a nice night and they stretch out on a limb but still dont come down right away. thats when you know your dog can tree a coon that hasnt been down for awhile ... the snow also comes in handy to prove how much coon move from tree to tree, BUT THATS ANOTHER ISSUE WHERE SOME KNOW BETTER!?!??!!?


__________________

A person is the only thing interested in a tree. The dog is interested in the coon. If a dog was interested in trees it could show you a thousand of them. The dog may tree on scent on the tree. He is showing where the coon scent went so inadvertently to us he is showing the tree since we can't see the scent. That dog barks treed because he can't climb. A dog treeing on winding is barking because he can't fly. If they could climb or fly they would not tree. They would just go on up there and kill the coon. Why do I feel like I am talking to my 5 yr old grandchild? Not a layup dog, but some dogs actually hunt by tree sniffing and checking out every tree. That sucks because there is a 50/50 chance he found where the coon came down from. I do believe that certain trees bark can hold scent better than dry leaves under the tree. That's another reason I don't like a tree sniffer.My current layup dog is the best I have ever had or seen. Even so, he only laysup about one in ten. He might get a couple one night and none for three or four nights or more. I am very fortunate in where I hunt is open like a park underneath so I get to see alot of what he is doing. I see him pass a good many coons already up.I just have to figure the wind isn't right. Sometimes a coon comes down and eats acorns and goes back up. There won't be but ten yards of scent around that tree and if he passes by it that by a few feet he will never know it was there. If he does happen across it he will tree on that tree. Some people call that a layup,I call it a pop up because it is so hot the coon just didn't run. Another thing about where I hunt I can almost count on a couple of layups is a couple of ten acre patches of hardwoods on a twenty foot bluff next to the marsh. 1, the coons aren't walking. If they are he just as soon run a good track as lay one up. 2, if they aren't walking then it's a good chance that more coons will be in those patches for him to wind. 3, The breeze needs to be going from land toward the marsh so that when it falls off that bluff it brings the scent down. If the seabreeze is coming in the scent goes up. ( Unless I was on the other side of the river then the incoming breeze would be falling off that other bank.) None the less, if he winds one he will try to locate the tree that has scent on it. If he does he will stay treed on that tree. WHY? I can only guess that he knows that the breeze might change and he would not have anyhing to hang his hat on OR maybe it is easier than having to keep moving with the shifting breeze. I don't know. But I do know this. I would not want him treeing on a tree that he thought he had it narrowed down to that did not have scent on it.Why? because he would be treeing on a tree that does not have scent on it. ya'll, get it?. That would make him a tree happy fool. I would much rather have him moving around and staying current with the scent. No points in it positive or negative to me, just another dead coon.

You can tell what is going on with the snow for sure, you can even get an idea how they work a trail, it's all laid out for you just like a story. Those cold days also bring air down to the ground so that a lot of dogs might stumble upon a layup, that never did it before.
I have seen coons climb up in a tree in early morning and stretch out, watched them about all day, so knew how long they had been there. Would call my old buddy to stop by and pick up my dog and bring him to me. If you got a bark, it was a cold nose dog for sure as the trail would be hours old. That was one way we knew how good of track dogs we had. If that one didn't tree it, Reb would when he came out of the box. The best time to try was when a front was coming in and the temperture was falling sort of fast. You needed to turn loose into the wind for it to work about everytime, and hope there wasn't one between you and the one you where testing, as he would hit first one he came to ! you could bet your test animal was going to lay a hot trail away when he heard the dog open. Got soaked and thought lightning was going to strike anytime, but learned a lot doing it. It helps to be young and dumb to test that way, but it was fun !

__________________
D. Glenn Wells, Jr.
UKC MOH

LOL I'm glad we both base a cold track on age. It's still 94 degrees here right now and danged if I didn't get on a cold track. LOL. A fellow a couple weeks ago on here said all of his tracks were cold cause he hunted in snow, never got a hot track till summer. Another fellow said he had a cold nose dog because the vet said it was and that was a good sign. LOL

a few snow fluries sure would look good about now, and I hate snow ! The bad thing is as hot as it is, if you hit a hot trail, the coon and the dog would both be walking ! It sure isn't the time to do any tests for winding, unless you had a slow airplane, as all the scent is going up and drying out, so might as well discuss it on the PC and enjoy the AC at the same time......

__________________
D. Glenn Wells, Jr.
UKC MOH

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brian Ratliff
Look I haven't got on here Laughing at any bodies posts & using slang terminology I'd appreciate the same respect.

All your explanation & you still didn't answer the ? I ask. How do you know the dog under the coon blowing up treed a coon that had been up for hrs??? Or 20 mins????

---

__________________
Michael Ghorley

I think there deer stand thing is a good example of why a layup dog cannot get every coon in the woods. Yes everbody has been busted by a deer when up in a stand at some point or other. But why would you bother to climb if it happened most of the time? Being up does have it's advantages most of the time. In a deerdog drive. Why does a buck or doe lay still even when the driver and dogs are close? He knows if he runs he is just spreading hot scent the dogs can't miss. If he lays still the dog almost has to get in bed with him.
Sometime a coon is traveling and feeding at dusk. two hours later he hears a dog back where he was at dusk. 5 minutes later the coon figures the dog is on his trail and he just climbs. It does not matter that it only takes the dog another 30 minutes to get there , the fact is the scent on the tree is a half hour old. The coon is treed, no ifs ands or buts. Alot of dogs do it and tell it by not as excited tree barking as one they almost caught by the tail before it got up a tree. That coon has been up for 30 minutes. Almost the exact same situation but the coon climbs because he has fed enough and there is no dog on his trail. along come a layup worthy dog passing on the other side of the tree from where the trail came from. The breeze is right and the dog gets a whiff of the live scent up the tree. He works that scent. He knows there is a real live coon very close. He tree sniffs a few trees and finds half hour old scent going up and back tracks a little to make sure and then checks out the breeze again to make double sure and then gets on that tree and trees his ass off because the scent that got this dog so worked up is 5 seconds old straight off a real live coon.

Live Oaks around here may cover a half acre. They can grow tall if in a thicket but the ones that can spread might only be thirty feet tall. A dog winding one might be under the outer edge of a limb. He might might stand on a stump with his head up a minute, then lean on a grape vine, the prop up on a dead broke off sappling or just try to keep his ballance using a waiste high bush. That definitely does not mean the coon is out on the end of the limb the dog is under. You have to look where he is looking , not that he is seeing anything, it is just the fact that a dog's eyes and nose point in the same direction unless you have a real ----ed up one. The coon might be on the other side of the tree 100 feet away. It depends on where the breeze is coming from and to be honest, I have not found where watching cigarrette smoke helped me one bit.

quote:

---

Originally posted by GA DAWG
I have one that will tree them. She's 9. Been doing it nearly her whole life but has gotten much better with age. Maybe we can go and you can see her do it one day before shes gone. I've saw her tree them with some pretty good dogs and them never tree and just be milling around when we get there. I treed one just about a hour ago. No doubt it was layed up. Was resting around the edge of a corn field.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
I have to ask you this. Did the coon fly up that tree along the corn field?

---

__________________
Johnny Williams

quote:

---

Originally posted by GA DAWG
Well I don't know about the last part of that statement. LOL....

---

__________________
Johnny Williams

quote:

---

Originally posted by GA DAWG
I have one that will tree them. She's 9. Been doing it nearly her whole life but has gotten much better with age. Maybe we can go and you can see her do it one day before shes gone. I've saw her tree them with some pretty good dogs and them never tree and just be milling around when we get there. I treed one just about a hour ago. No doubt it was layed up. Was resting around the edge of a corn field.

---

__________________
912-424-6651

lay ups

im just a dumb ole hillbilly boy im 61 yrs old been aruond coonhunting sense i was a little fellar went through alot of dogs i have only had 1 dog that i can say could tree a lay up coon and every time she did it if 1 of my buddys was with me thier dog just sniffing the ground looking for scent not a clue theres a coon even been there while my gyp was treeing her heart out when she did this there was always a coon she was a breed thats not for every one a timber chopper bred gyp she was all coon dog but died from cancer at 5 yrs old but they are still out there i think they were more common in the older blood lines jmo

I think this trait is more common in some of the cur dog breeds. I know that some ofthem are silent on track, but some of them treed lot by winding the air currents too. The best I ever owned was a bridle, bob-tailed female, Mt. Cur. She was 100% silent on track, but I hunted her with open trailing hounds. On occasion I have seen her stick her nose in the air, and go wandering off and tree when good hounds would not back her or open at all and she would have the meat. I once watched her stop and rear up on her hind legs and start winding. she then proceeded to make a large circle, rearing up on her hind legs and sniffing high in the air quite often. While I watched , she kept circling, kind of like a buzzard in the air, and rearing up and sniffing. The circles got smaller and smaller. After about 10 minutes of this she finally stopped under the canopy of a water oak, sat down, looked straight up and treed. Yes she had the coon, he was about 40 feet up directly over her head. Yes she could have been minused, if she had been in a hunt, as it could have been said that she wasn't clearly indicating which tree. But I know for 100% certain that she did not trail this coon. I watched the whole process.
BTW I have seen some Walkers that can do the same thing and I am convinced that most accurate tree dogs can smell the body scent of a coon in the tree even if they trailed a track to get there, that's just my opinion and I can't prove it, LOL.

Lumber

The best Lay Up dog I ever hunted and I am 61 years old. He is off Bellar's Indiana Shep (semen) will be two in nov.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brian Ratliff
Micheal I'm not saying they don't exist. My Jon dog just turned 2 on the 1st & he has treed some that I thought by knowing his every bark were layups but can only Speculate because I can truly say how long the coon had been up 30 mins or 6 hrs.

Maybe I should ask what do yall consider a layup coon? 1 that has been sitting up 1 hour - 3 hrs - 8 hrs or what????

---

Ive cut mine loose in to the wind. Her walking on her hind legs. Boom 300 yards and no barks later she be treed with a coon. Ive been walking down a rd and her go to standing up testing the wind. LOOK up and there be coons!! I dont give a rip how she does it or what its called or how long its been up there. I like it and hate to see the day shes gone. Aint many 9 yr old dogs around you can turn loose in 90 degree weather and get a coon treed or maybe aint many hunters dumb as me and want to turn a 9yr old loose in 90 degree weather.

__________________
Michael Ghorley

"SICKENING"

They catch it on the thermals & work the scent cone to the game just like a prized pointer does. Only difference is theirs is at ground level & ours are up in the air. A Whitetail buck will swing down wind of a bedding area to scent check for estrous doe's. He adjusts where he does this according to the thermals. Rising,falling,time of day wind direction all play a part in it.

By know means do I know everything but I do know what I have experience with & the type of dogs we've had & strive for with every cross. Also spent my share of time watchin the elusive Whitetails use the thermals while perched in a tree. I've owned Germen Shorthairs & watched them work scent cones from some great distances rite to the dummy or the bird. I had a Chocolate Lab I trained to find shed antlers also by utilizing the scent cones.

I spent years spraying chemicals & usin the wind to my advantage. I watched mist do some funny things by swirlin in places you wouldn't expect or risin & changin directions. I've emptied probably 50 of them lil canisters to check the wind that are made from milk weed while perched in squirrel only zones. Watchin them enough will sure give you an education on how the wind & the thermals work. I've watched piles of coon crawl around in tree's eatin acorns or just checkin out their home & some for hours everytime of the day & in every kinda condition & not go to the ground. I actually don't know why there isn't more that CAN tree them kinda coon?

I am a self described student of mother nature & been intrigued by the wind since I was but a lad. Every single day when there is any wind I'm takin in how its effectin sumthin. Obsessed with learning.

To bad more don't have that learning capability or desire to aposed to knowin it all. These hi-speed wimperin machines are a fantastic tool. Does give some the opportunity to speak out like they don't have the kahoona's to to others faces,unfortunately. Some are full of spirit & gona change the whole sport by p!ss!n & moaninin about this & that while wonderin WHY? Degrading others before them That have worn out more dogs than they are old is a common thing & disrespectful as it gets.

Ambitious energy & the desire to help improve stuff is all good in anyone's book without question. Sure don't know what happened to respecting those with the same goals that have been involved in the same thought train since before they was but a wiggly waitin to get out in the back of Impala at the drive in theater & not be caught in a sock?

Any & everyone readin this has the same "WANTS" only in different versions of it maybe? If you refuse to learn from others experience so be it. But, unless you've walked to a hundred tree's in their boots, you have no room to discredit what they are sharin with you. Gets real sickening hearin the same people that cannot open their eye's let alone their minds.

"TT"....Out!

__________________
"Quality not Quantity & hunt what you breed"~"IF you don't, please don't breed what you "DON'T" hunt" ~"If their not good enough for you they sure as tootin ain't good 'nuff for us" ~