UKC Forums - 2011 Purina Series

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Posted by Okie Dawg on 12-04-2010 07:39 AM:

This being advertised out of the box (so to speak) like local news papers might even get the pleasure hunter to come back and some enter for there first time.

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Posted by Lee Currens Jr. on 12-04-2010 02:03 PM:

Re: Confused for sure

quote:
Originally posted by H. L. Meyer
The Winter classic is listed in the book as a Purina bonus point event. Looked real close but did not see where the Grand American was listed as a Purina point event.
BUT neither event is listed on the U K C web page as a purina event.
O well gona go just the same got a goodon this go around. I HOPE.
H L

I thought the Grand American was a ST event maybe
i missed something.Why would you penalize your biggest
saler?

Posted by Penny Jessup on 12-04-2010 02:29 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Okie Dawg
What makes people think that dogs capable of winning at Autumn Oaks is better than your local dog. I am sure it takes a good dog but it takes a owner that can afford to take the dog out there to hunt too. Just becouse a person can't afford to travel 1000 miles, take off work and have a good enough truck to go and do doesn't mean he doesn't have just as good of dog.
There are good dogs out there that don't have the money to travel. I think this way gives the best dog a chance and people might be surprised Who shows up to hunt and how many.
If your state hunt hasn't had many at it just maybe this will help. If not I think I would move it.

I didn't mean a dog at a local event didn't "deserve" the Purina points, nor did I say or even imply the dogs winning at AO is better than your local dog.

Go back and re-read my comments again. My comment was that these dogs that compete at Autumn Oaks deserve them as well! I'm sorry you chose to take my comments that way. My argument meant to point out how worthy dogs that do compete at the highest level deserve those Purina points the same.

Earning Purina points at the big 4 events wouldn't hinder anyone who chose to run the state championships the way the new format is now. Shoot at AO, you only have a chance at one day's worth of Purina points anyway since it's technically one event held over 2 days. Yes, there are more dogs earning them and bonus points, but considering the sheer level of competition, believe me those points are totally earned....and in most cases these won't add up to be what a 2 day state event could earn you.

I totally agree that there are good dogs out there who don't get the exposure some do because they can't travel. But, if you don't travel to any but the big ones .....and you do win.....don't you think that has to be a good dog? I do and I'm just saying they deserve Purina points too.

Posted by Lee Currens Jr. on 12-04-2010 02:34 PM:

i thought they all started as local dogs.i would sure hate
to travel with 1 that couldnt win local.
you know on his own feeders.

Posted by Clay Lautzenhiser on 12-04-2010 04:25 PM:

I think a whole lot of you are missing the point here. IF A PERSON COULD NOT AFFORD TO RUN THE PURINA RACE BEFORE THEY CERTAINLY CANNOT AFFORD TO RUN IT NOW!! Lets say the average hunter could afford to hit maybe 5 surrounding states and if they won their cast at all 5 hunts. That would be 100% and a total of 250 points. Now lets say Mr. Money Bags can still afford to hunt 24 of the hunts and only wins 25% of his casts that is 6 cast wins and a total of 300 points. GUESS WHAT YOU LOOSE!! All you get is a local person with some points and false sence that they can compete with Mr. Money Bags. THERE IS STILL NO WAY THE AVERAGE JOE CAN COMPETE IN THIS RACE!
Blueticking it: As far as winning the local hunts on your feeders what is the point? Why go out and hunt against the same 3-4 guys you hunt with every night? What does that prove? If you can't go out and compete in the other hounds back yard you don't have much of a hound. The whole idea WAS to have a hound that performed throughout a whole year in a variety of climates and conditions.

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Posted by Lee Currens Jr. on 12-04-2010 04:43 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Clay Lautzenhiser
I think a whole lot of you are missing the point here. IF A PERSON COULD NOT AFFORD TO RUN THE PURINA RACE BEFORE THEY CERTAINLY CANNOT AFFORD TO RUN IT NOW!! Lets say the average hunter could afford to hit maybe 5 surrounding states and if they won their cast at all 5 hunts. That would be 100% and a total of 250 points. Now lets say Mr. Money Bags can still afford to hunt 24 of the hunts and only wins 25% of his casts that is 6 cast wins and a total of 300 points. GUESS WHAT YOU LOOSE!! All you get is a local person with some points and false sence that they can compete with Mr. Money Bags. THERE IS STILL NO WAY THE AVERAGE JOE CAN COMPETE IN THIS RACE!
Blueticking it: As far as winning the local hunts on your feeders what is the point? Why go out and hunt against the same 3-4 guys you hunt with every night? What does that prove? If you can't go out and compete in the other hounds back yard you don't have much of a hound. The whole idea WAS to have a hound that performed throughout a whole year in a variety of climates and conditions.

the only thing i can tell you is find a better job.

Posted by Clay Lautzenhiser on 12-04-2010 05:09 PM:

Oh I am sorry Mr Money Bags I didn't realize you were a millionaire. SINCE YOU USE SOME FAKE SCREEN NAME TO HIDE BEHIND I FIGURED YOU WERE SOME TWELVE YEAR OLD KID ON DADDYS PUTER! Perhaps if you use your real name we might recognize you as the rich and famous man that you are.

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Posted by shakethevine on 12-04-2010 05:20 PM:

I'm not sure its that far out there Clay....I figure I could make it to 8 state hunts, and if the rest are like ours (2 days) I could possibally get 800 points if I had double cast wins. I'm not sure if I read the new format right, but I think I'm right. Plus add RQE and you could be a contender or at least make a run at it. Plus once you get 200 points you will be going against other dogs classified as a contender, so not everyone will be going home with a cast win........sounds pretty competitive to me, and I like it!! LOL

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Posted by HOOSIER 2 on 12-04-2010 05:49 PM:

Clay,

Several things to point out is that Mr Money Bags won't be able to go to all 24 State hunts because some of them will be on the same weekend as well as on the same weekend as the Pkc world hunt and several other bigger hunts, which will cut the number down to about 14-16 state hunts for Mr Money bags... I think JMO that this will allow more people to run the race, make the race more competitive, and most people who are serious about winning the race or their breed, can afford to hit 6-8 State hunts which will allow a serious competitor to run the race from almost anywhere in the US. I strongly believe that you will be able to win the race with a real nice hound going to 6-8 State hunts + the RQE's.... Time will tell, i love the change, and i believe UKC made the change with the local serious comp hunter with a good dog in mind, i believe a lot of people will be in the hunt to win the race now instead of a couple of Mr Money Bags type's... I like change, a moving target is a lot harder to hit than one that is standing still..... Let's give this a chance before we throw in the towel..... I hope to see a Purina Race winner in 2011 that nobody has ever heard of , that would be great for our State and local clubs, they are they backbone of our sport. One other thing to think about is with this format, there should be more Purina contenders at an event now and that will also take away some of Mr Money bags easy cast wins when he has to compete against local Purina contenders and not just the 2 or 3 same dogs every weekend like it has been for years and what does that really prove beating the same 2 or 3 dogs at every Purina points event, not much in my opinion. JMO Dean Miller

Posted by Joe Moore on 12-04-2010 06:00 PM:

Can you receive Purina Points at more than one RQE? If you qualify at one event and receive points, can you then go to a RQE the following weekend, and get more points? Or is it once your qualified your done?

Posted by shakethevine on 12-04-2010 06:24 PM:

Joe....my guess would be 1 RQE...in less it would be breed specific. But I'm not sure...

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Posted by Dale Young on 12-04-2010 06:37 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Joe Moore
Can you receive Purina Points at more than one RQE? If you qualify at one event and receive points, can you then go to a RQE the following weekend, and get more points? Or is it once your qualified your done?

AS it stands under the 2010 program a dog could only recieve Purina points at 1 rqe. A dog good show in a rqe show again(don't know why) but only could recieve Purina points once. Hunting dog could not enter another rqe once qualified with the exception of a breed specific rqe at a breed days. I assume they would not be able to aquire more Purina points but allowed to hunt to be in the running for their overall breed days title.

Posted by Clay Lautzenhiser on 12-04-2010 06:53 PM:

Dean and others:
After a lengthy conversation with David Gardin I must say that I was WRONG in some of my thinking. David and I discussed both opinions and he made me some error in my way of thinking and he agreed with many of my points. However they think this is the best approach at this time. There are also other changes being made that will make it all more attractive for everyone. He is willing to discuss this with anyone who wants to have a civil discussion. In his opinion, as stated above by Dean, it will not take 20+ hunts to be competitive or even win the race in 2011. I am gonna take a wait and see attitude and not do any more bashing!

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Posted by Okie Dawg on 12-04-2010 11:51 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Penny Jessup
I didn't mean a dog at a local event didn't "deserve" the Purina points, nor did I say or even imply the dogs winning at AO is better than your local dog.

Go back and re-read my comments again. My comment was that these dogs that compete at Autumn Oaks deserve them as well! I'm sorry you chose to take my comments that way. My argument meant to point out how worthy dogs that do compete at the highest level deserve those Purina points the same.

Earning Purina points at the big 4 events wouldn't hinder anyone who chose to run the state championships the way the new format is now. Shoot at AO, you only have a chance at one day's worth of Purina points anyway since it's technically one event held over 2 days. Yes, there are more dogs earning them and bonus points, but considering the sheer level of competition, believe me those points are totally earned....and in most cases these won't add up to be what a 2 day state event could earn you.
Originally posted by Penny Jessup

It doesn't sit well with me that a dog capable of winning at Autumn Oaks or the World can earn "O" zero Purina points and yet a dog can show up at a state event with 2 or 3 dogs in the category and earn Purina points.

I totally agree that there are good dogs out there who don't get the exposure some do because they can't travel. But, if you don't travel to any but the big ones .....and you do win.....don't you think that has to be a good dog? I do and I'm just saying they deserve Purina points too.

You don't even have to qualify at AO so no I don't think a dog should get anything extra points for winning there. i WOULD HATE TO SEE IT WON BY A DOG THAT HADE ONLY HUNTED THOSE 2 DAYS.
Now at world (YES).
They have to earn the right to show up at that one and should be rewarded for there effort.

Posted by Okie Dawg on 12-05-2010 12:03 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Clay Lautzenhiser
I think a whole lot of you are missing the point here. IF A PERSON COULD NOT AFFORD TO RUN THE PURINA RACE BEFORE THEY CERTAINLY CANNOT AFFORD TO RUN IT NOW!! Lets say the average hunter could afford to hit maybe 5 surrounding states and if they won their cast at all 5 hunts. That would be 100% and a total of 250 points. Now lets say Mr. Money Bags can still afford to hunt 24 of the hunts and only wins 25% of his casts that is 6 cast wins and a total of 300 points. GUESS WHAT YOU LOOSE!! All you get is a local person with some points and false sence that they can compete with Mr. Money Bags. THERE IS STILL NO WAY THE AVERAGE JOE CAN COMPETE IN THIS RACE!
Blueticking it: As far as winning the local hunts on your feeders what is the point? Why go out and hunt against the same 3-4 guys you hunt with every night? What does that prove? If you can't go out and compete in the other hounds back yard you don't have much of a hound. The whole idea WAS to have a hound that performed throughout a whole year in a variety of climates and conditions.

Clay you have to admitt that finding 24 state hunts that are not on the same date and you can make it to is going to be a lot harder than it is to just show up or send your handler to a few of the big ones.
The point that EVERYONE seams to be missing is the fact that they are doing this to try and get the numbers up at the state hunts. I think it will help but wether it does or it don't. THEY ARE TRYING AND NOT JUST SITTING ON THERE BUTTS NOT DOING ANYTHING. If it don't work they will try something else. I commend them for there efforts.

Posted by Okie Dawg on 12-05-2010 12:06 AM:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by shakethevine
I'm not sure its that far out there Clay....I figure I could make it to 8 state hunts, and if the rest are like ours (2 days) I could possibally get 800 points if I had double cast wins. I'm not sure if I read the new format right, but I think I'm right. Plus add RQE and you could be a contender or at least make a run at it. Plus once you get 200 points you will be going against other dogs classified as a contender, so not everyone will be going home with a cast win........

(sounds pretty competitive to me, and I like it!! LOL [/QUOTE)

That might be the reason some of them don't like this idea. LOL

Posted by Geminite on 12-05-2010 01:02 AM:

I do like the idea of having Purina State events, but why not leave the breed days and the big four (GA, WC, AO, World) on the schedule??!!

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Posted by Okie Dawg on 12-05-2010 01:17 AM:

I would guess becouse they are not part of the circuit that gets you to the UNC WORLD and that is what UKC is all about.

Posted by plott hound 4 on 12-05-2010 03:02 PM:

WHO IS GOING TO RUN THE RACE ANY WAY ?

Posted by blackdawg on 12-05-2010 03:56 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Okie Dawg
I would guess becouse they are not part of the circuit that gets you to the UNC WORLD and that is what UKC is all about.

The state hunts don't either. I just don't see the reasoning behind removing thebig 3 and the breed days hunts. Adding the state hunts is fine, just don't see why the others were eliminated.

Like some of the other said, ukc is trying to make a change, and I commend them for it also. I'm sure over the course of a few years, with a little tweaking, they will get it right.

But for now, like I said before... I will not be attending the winter classic and grand american, like I had planned.

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Posted by Dale Young on 12-05-2010 06:11 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Geminite
I do like the idea of having Purina State events, but why not leave the breed days and the big four (GA, WC, AO, World) on the schedule??!!

It started with State Hunts,Breed Days, GA, WC, AO's, rqe's and the World.
In 2010 there was just 7 State Hunts left that drew enough numbers to be Purina events and you had to be under 2 years in a row to lose them plus those numbers had been adjusted down some over the years to try to help.
2011 will add 17 state hunts back on that I know in some cases for sure had the dwindling entries and lost their Purina status.

I've said I totally agree with the state hunts, I hated to see them dropped out. All hunts are local for somebody and draw alot of dogs from closer in . The big 3 are stationary but certainly draw from all over plus local. Breed Days and the World move around the country some so you never know just where they'll be for sure.
It started out to be points earned at major events where competition was sure to be but it seems to have dropped the major events in favor of smaller ones that in most cases were getting smaller and had lost their Purina status.
The GA, WC, AO's and the World were the only ones that tuff competition was a given and the others the Purina dogs had a way of raining on your parade so to speak. Not ALWAYS but quite often.

Our sport has a leak in it's bucket and as has been mentioned the Purina Committee is trying to make positive changes of which we may learn more shortly as the new season starts. What they do is a thankless job along with all club leaderships and state associations of which I'm grateful for and I say THANK YOU for the effort you put forth to try and keep the game going.

Posted by David Gardin on 12-06-2010 01:55 AM:

THANKS DALE

WE PUT A LOT OF WORK ALONG WITH THE HELP OF UKC ALLEN AND TODD AND WAYNE. IN THIS PROJECT THESE STATE HUNTS ARE THE ONES THAT FIGHT FOR YOUR RIGHTS TO HUNT AND OWNE A DOG. WE ARE HOPING HUNTER AND SHOWPEOPLE WILL SUPPORT THERE NABORING STATE HUNTS. AND YOUR ARE CORRECT THEY DONT HAVE THE 70 DOG MARK TO MEET NOW.FEEL FREE TO CALL IF I CAN HELP 704 985 0988 CELL 704 474 5948 HOME

Posted by mike pennington on 12-07-2010 12:33 AM:

NICE CHANGE

I love the change it will help state hunts and the real hunters and show people will still be at the BIG 4

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Posted by TamarackKennels on 12-07-2010 01:52 AM:

I was not going to respond to this:
1) What I can see is the travel will be about the same. It will take time and gas to get to these events no matter where you are at.... Same as the old purina events
2) Plus it will benefit each state: Think about it. For each state event, people would be coming in getting motels, shopping and etc.... money runs in the state or the area the event will be held at.. so it is like economy boost. So each state will benefit from it.
3) there will new comers coming in with different dogs and each.. More people to meet and talk hounds.
4) plus each state is different, has different terrain and many different offers of food, people and places. new sites to see.
5) this will give a us a chance as houndsmen to support other state houndsmen to promote the coonhounds, and get more coverage to know each state leg. about the laws and get people aware of what is going on
6) about the money situation, I know this as a fact, talking to several different people showing and hunting at these events... They are like us. they have to save up money and sacrifice holidays to get the time off... Some people do this for recreation and pleasure. it is their vacation time. when others take up the vacation time during christmas and such... You have others use their vacation for these dog events. So lay off about the money bags and such. They have to save money up to do these each year.........
I do not run the purina events, but I do know people that do that has told me what they have to do each year to do these events. For example: Some one told me once that they take so much out of their paycheck a week to sock away in a savings account for these events.... Instead of taking a two week vacation for christmas, they only take one week to save the time to go to these events,.,... They sacrifice to go and support the clubs, events, and such.... Think about it.... so Kudos to those that do these events year after year... I wish I had that kind of dedication.

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Posted by TamarackKennels on 12-07-2010 01:53 AM:

I think they still should of include AO, WC, and the world show/hunt. and the Battle of the Breeds.....

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