UKC Forums - Rule Proposal Results

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-- Rule Proposal Results (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=375248)

Posted by on 09-10-2010 04:19 PM:

The more things change, the more things stay the same.

Regardless of what rules are changed, UKC rules are still difficult to comprehend and to apply for a good share of the folks competiting in the events.

I mean really, what was so difficult about the current cell phone rule? No reference to scores... easy enough. If the change was due to folks texting, playing games & etc... that's easy too. If those activities are a hinderance to the cast the judge simply needs to request them to stop. If they don't comply scratch them for unsportsmanlike behavior.

Now anytime a phone rings or someone recieves a text from someone outside of the coonhunting world, someone is going to demand that handler to be scratched.

UKC needs to simply scrap how the current score card is laid out and reformat it. Everytime one of these rules is tweaked or changed it seems it effects another rule that is overlooked in the current process. Just review how each rule is worded and how they want it applied and rewrite it. Breakdown the card so the rules are easier to reference in the field.

It shouldn't require an act of Congress for UKC to reformat the card and rewrite the rules so it is easier to apply by handlers and officials. The idea that an entire book needs to be availble just to comprehend the rules is a joke.

I'd like to believe I am just as intelligent as the average coonhunter and I believe I've put as much effort or more than the average coonhunter to know and understand UKC rules and how they want them applied, both as a handler and an official, and it seems every week I'm learning something new, seeing others not being able to comprehend them, or seeing them interpreted differently.

Frankly, its tiring and frustrating that so much effort needs to be made simply to get a fair shake at the game of competition coonhunting.

Posted by Mark A. Hauck on 09-10-2010 04:52 PM:

Not sure how any of the other breed assn did their rule proposals but BBOA (Bluetick) organization went through each rule change at our annual membership meeting !!

There it was voted on by all members present at the National Bluetick Days event and meeting.

I do know UKC had the rule changes out in time for each breed Assn to review them and go over them at their Breed Days events.

Anyone from the B&T Assn attend the membership meeting ??

Treeing Walker Days membership meeting ?? English Days membership meeting ?? Plott Days ?? Redbone Days ??

If you attended your membership meeting, did you vote on these changes, if so you have your answer.

My thoughts, if I'm getting beat by a dog coming into the tree at 4:59 and takaing 75 to my 125 ... then I need to get me a new dog

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Posted by longshot on 09-10-2010 04:57 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by chester s
There are thousands of people that want the countdown passed and everyone knows it makes perfect sense. Who are these idiots that keep voting against it? Are they made up? Who are they?

Chester , I think one of the reasons people didn't like the countdown as it was written is , because it had 125 for first tree AND a countdown... PKC only has 100 for first tree with a countdown...

I am one of the people that felt like haveing BOTH a countdown and 125 points was just too much emphasis on first tree... That would spread the scores to widely and result in people withdrawing and going home early , and thats not a good thing for nite hunts IMO.

I know some of people disagree with me and thats fine... I don't think I am ''YELLOW'' as you say ,,, just because I happen not to like the countdown as it was written in the proposal.

__________________
Mark Reavis
Southwest Missouri
Dual Grand Champion Super Sambo

Posted by Christy on 09-10-2010 05:00 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by brogy
I mean really, what was so difficult about the current cell phone rule? No reference to scores... easy enough. If the change was due to folks texting, playing games & etc... that's easy too. If those activities are a hinderance to the cast the judge simply needs to request them to stop. If they don't comply scratch them for unsportsmanlike behavior.

HOW IS SOMEONE SITTING IN A TRUCK WATCHING A MOVIE OR PLAYING A GAME A HINDERANCE TO THE CAST WHEN THEY ARE A MILE BACK IN THE WOODS?

I ALWAYS PAUSE WHATEVER I'M DOING WHEN THE CAST COMES BACK FOR THAT REASON, BUT HAVING IT TO START WITH SHOULDN'T BE A SCRATCHABLE OFFENSE.

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Posted by Buckshot on 09-10-2010 05:05 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Christy
HOW IS SOMEONE SITTING IN A TRUCK WATCHING A MOVIE OR PLAYING A GAME A HINDERANCE TO THE CAST WHEN THEY ARE A MILE BACK IN THE WOODS?

I ALWAYS PAUSE WHATEVER I'M DOING WHEN THE CAST COMES BACK FOR THAT REASON, BUT HAVING IT TO START WITH SHOULDN'T BE A SCRATCHABLE OFFENSE.

Why not just stay at the clubhouse or at home? It has to be more comfortable than sitting in the truck during a nite hunt.

Posted by chester s on 09-10-2010 05:27 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Mark A. Hauck
Not sure how any of the other breed assn did their rule proposals but BBOA (Bluetick) organization went through each rule change at our annual membership meeting !!

There it was voted on by all members present at the National Bluetick Days event and meeting.

I do know UKC had the rule changes out in time for each breed Assn to review them and go over them at their Breed Days events.

Anyone from the B&T Assn attend the membership meeting ??

Treeing Walker Days membership meeting ?? English Days membership meeting ?? Plott Days ?? Redbone Days ??

If you attended your membership meeting, did you vote on these changes, if so you have your answer.

My thoughts, if I'm getting beat by a dog coming into the tree at 4:59 Im and takaing 75 to my 125 ... then I need to get me a new dog

I'm so close to writing all the benefits of a countdown rule but I don't have the energy, also it will only go through one ear and out the other.

__________________
Chester the coon molester

Posted by jackiec on 09-10-2010 05:28 PM:

All rules were voted on at Plott Days with the membership that were present at the general meeting on Saturday.

Posted by Christy on 09-10-2010 05:37 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Buckshot
Why not just stay at the clubhouse or at home? It has to be more comfortable than sitting in the truck during a nite hunt.

BECAUSE I CANT GO IN THE WOODS ALL THE TIME LIKE I USED TO, BUT I STILL LIKE TO GO AND LISTEN TO THE DOGS RUN AND LISTEN TO A GOOD TREE.

AND ALSO SINCE CHEYENNE IS IN SCHOOL THE WEEKENDS ARE ABOUT THE ONLY TIME I GET TO GO, AND IF THERE IS A HUNT THAT QUINCY IS GOING TO I GO WITH HIM, BECAUSE ALOT OF TIME HE'S OFF DOING SOMETHING DURING THE DAY AND I'M STUCK AT HOME THEN, SO NIGHT TIME IS THE ONLY TIME I HAVE TO GET OUT AND DO SOMETHING. AND ALOT OF TIMES I END UP HELPING HIM DRIVE HOME IF IT'S A LONG NIGHT. AND IF CHEYENNE WANTS TO GO TO A SHOW WE WILL TAKE HER WITH US, HOPEFULLY, SHE WILL CHOOSE A HUNT CLOSE ENOUGH TO HOME WHERE WE CAN RUN HER BACK TO MOM AND DAD BEFORE THE HUNT OR ON THE WAY, BUT IF NOT, SHE GOES WITH US AND SOMETIMES THOSE ARE THE ONLY THINGS THAT KEEP HER OCCUPIED WHEN THEY ARE GONE FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME.

IF THE DOGS STAY CLOSE AND IN HEARING I LISTEN TO THEM. BUT WHEN THEY GO OUT OF HEARING I TRY TO FIND ALTERNATE MEASURES OF ENTERTAINMENT.

I KNOW I'M NOT THE ONLY PERSON WITH KIDS THAT DONT GO ON THE NITE HUNT EVERY TIME THAT HAVE DONE THIS IN THE PAST.

I'M HOPING I'M JUST OVEREACTING LIKE I ALWAYS DO AND READING MORE INTO IT THAN WHAT IT REALLY IS. LOL. BUT THAT IS JUST HOW I AM INTERPERETTING IT.

Posted by Larry Atherton on 09-10-2010 05:43 PM:

Brogy,

I agree with ya regarding the rules on the card. Simplify the card. List all the minus under minus. List all the plus under the plus, and list all the scratchable offenses under scratchable offenses. I can't tell ya how many times someone says show me where on the card it says that. Forget the implied scratch! Spell it out plain and clear. If ya ask me implied is as bad as assuming. What is it any way Venus talk? I am a guy. I speak English not implied.

I often wonder who originally came up with the rules format ... a lawyer want-to-be.

__________________
Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

Posted by cbcoonskinner on 09-10-2010 05:57 PM:

Cristy,
Some people that don't have kids or know anything about electronic devices, actually think that somehow people are cheating them. Personally I don't care if you use a tracking device,with a tree switch or carry a garmin turned on, or carry a laptop to the woods. If I'm packing a coondog I will beat you ( because I know my dog ) while your distracted with calls text and video games . Persons left in the truck should be able to do what ever they want there passengers not spectators.
More and more Rules,Next thing we know we'll need COON DAWG POLICE ON EVERY CAST!

__________________
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po box 71
Wheeling,Mo 64688
Home of:
Red Eagle Chief

Posted by on 09-10-2010 06:06 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Christy
HOW IS SOMEONE SITTING IN A TRUCK WATCHING A MOVIE OR PLAYING A GAME A HINDERANCE TO THE CAST WHEN THEY ARE A MILE BACK IN THE WOODS?

I ALWAYS PAUSE WHATEVER I'M DOING WHEN THE CAST COMES BACK FOR THAT REASON, BUT HAVING IT TO START WITH SHOULDN'T BE A SCRATCHABLE OFFENSE.

Christy, I agree with you. I was referring to some kid that wants to stand there and trade texts with high school girls or playing games while the cast is standing there listening to hounds. I really don't care, all I'm saying is that if it was a distraction to the judge or another handler, I feel that if the judge requests they stop and they don't then deal with them.

Don't create a rule that is simply going to be used to eliminate people. Before getting too excited I'll wait for UKC to have time to clarify things.

I have a job that requires on-call. I've only once attended a nite hunt while on-call and had no issues, but should the situation arise that I choose to enter an event while on-call and my phone happens to ring or a pager goes off, I'll be ****ed if someone is going to scratch me for that. If I get a call for work, I'd step off to the side and take down the info I need or let it go to voicemail. Then on timeout I might need to fire up my laptop and check into something. If needed, I'd withdraw and go.

I guess I'll just stay home instead and read about how entries are down at the events.

Posted by cbcoonskinner on 09-10-2010 06:06 PM:

Wish I had a score card from the 70's to compare to today's cards. I don't ever remember so many rule's that had to be explained from the adviser back in the day.

__________________
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po box 71
Wheeling,Mo 64688
Home of:
Red Eagle Chief

Posted by Christy on 09-10-2010 06:14 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by brogy
Christy, I agree with you. I was referring to some kid that wants to stand there and trade texts with high school girls or playing games while the cast is standing there listening to hounds. I really don't care, all I'm saying is that if it was a distraction to the judge or another handler, I feel that if the judge requests they stop and they don't then deal with them.

Don't create a rule that is simply going to be used to eliminate people. Before getting too excited I'll wait for UKC to have time to clarify things.

I have a job that requires on-call. I've only once attended a nite hunt while on-call and had no issues, but should the situation arise that I choose to enter an event while on-call and my phone happens to ring or a pager goes off, I'll be ****ed if someone is going to scratch me for that. If I get a call for work, I'd step off to the side and take down the info I need or let it go to voicemail. Then on timeout I might need to fire up my laptop and check into something. If needed, I'd withdraw and go.

I guess I'll just stay home instead and read about how entries are down at the events.

I DIDN'T THINK ABOUT THAT SIDE OF THINGS. LOL. OH YEAH. I'M JUST DISCUSSING LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. YOU BEEN ON HERE LONG ENOUGH TO KNOW ME, SOMETIMES I'M FINE, AND SOMETIMES I JUST OVERREACT A TEENSY LITTLE BIT. LOL.

Posted by runnin rebels on 09-10-2010 06:14 PM:

All the rules are too hard for most to understand. the non working rule states 15 minutes of consecutive minutes, but the strike in over a dog rule just states 1 hr of hunt time. My interpretation of that is as soon as you are in the second hour of the hunt and I feel that your dog is not working with the group I'm striking in for 100.

__________________
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NITECH PR. THE RUNNIN REBEL COWBOY JR DOG 2012 World Hunt Qualified

Posted by Allen / UKC on 09-10-2010 06:27 PM:

Had a feeling it wouldn;t be good to post the results without including any official clarifications to go with them. Especially, the cell phone issue. Wowsers.

Posted by Casey_Lee on 09-10-2010 06:30 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Allen / UKC
Had a feeling it wouldn;t be good to post the results without including any official clarifications to go with them. Especially, the cell phone issue. Wowsers.

Allen we understand you guys are busy. We are just dicussing amongst ourselves here LOL

!!! Yall take care at the world and Thanks for doing what you guys do!!

__________________
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(662) 523-0375
Mantachie, MS

Posted by Christy on 09-10-2010 06:46 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Allen / UKC
Had a feeling it wouldn;t be good to post the results without including any official clarifications to go with them. Especially, the cell phone issue. Wowsers.

ME BEING THE SECRETARY FOR OUR CLUB, I LIKE TO GET INFO "STRAIGHT FROM THE HORSES MOUTH" SO TO SPEAK, AND HAVE MY DUCKS IN A ROW, BECAUSE WHEN SOMEONE ASKS ME CAN I DO THIS OR DO THAT, I CAN SAY "WELL, ALLEN TOLD ME THIS...." LOL.

ALLEN, YOU KNOW ME! I'VE GOT TO KEEP YOU ON YOUR TOES! LOL.

WE JUST LOVE YOU SOOOO MUCH!

Posted by Todd K / UKC on 09-10-2010 06:47 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by cbcoonskinner
Wish I had a score card from the 70's to compare to today's cards. I don't ever remember so many rule's that had to be explained from the adviser back in the day.

It was called Rules Corner (or something like that) and was written by Dale Brandenburger in FULL CRY magazine. Same thing as the Advisor today.

__________________
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Posted by JiM on 09-10-2010 10:17 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Christy
HOW IS SOMEONE SITTING IN A TRUCK WATCHING A MOVIE OR PLAYING A GAME A HINDERANCE TO THE CAST WHEN THEY ARE A MILE BACK IN THE WOODS?

I ALWAYS PAUSE WHATEVER I'M DOING WHEN THE CAST COMES BACK FOR THAT REASON, BUT HAVING IT TO START WITH SHOULDN'T BE A SCRATCHABLE OFFENSE.

Christy, I'm purty darn sure proposal 11 only pertains to cast members and by way of rule 17, spectators that walk with the cast. Back at the truck I bet you can talk, text, play games, play with yourself, whatever to your hearts content. The only rule I know of that refers to anything going on at the truck is the policy that states you can't follow the action with a Garmin back at the truck.

__________________
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Posted by Bill(Chew) on 09-10-2010 11:42 PM:

Chester I would like for you to write down the bennifits of the count down rule. I personally don't see any. If you drop the first tree to 100 points then I would not be against it as much.

Ukc runs two hour hunts and the count down would creat a larger point spread and people would leave because they can't catch up. I've been hunting in hunts for over 35 years and I've seen very few "me too" dogs win.

In a one hour hunt the count down makes more sence because you are limited to one or two coon in much of the coon hunting world. plus you are starting with 100 tree points instead of 125.

__________________
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Washington, NC
252-944-5592

Posted by Justin Smith on 09-10-2010 11:47 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by brogy
The more things change, the more things stay the same.

Regardless of what rules are changed, UKC rules are still difficult to comprehend and to apply for a good share of the folks competiting in the events.

I mean really, what was so difficult about the current cell phone rule? No reference to scores... easy enough. If the change was due to folks texting, playing games & etc... that's easy too. If those activities are a hinderance to the cast the judge simply needs to request them to stop. If they don't comply scratch them for unsportsmanlike behavior.

Now anytime a phone rings or someone recieves a text from someone outside of the coonhunting world, someone is going to demand that handler to be scratched.

UKC needs to simply scrap how the current score card is laid out and reformat it. Everytime one of these rules is tweaked or changed it seems it effects another rule that is overlooked in the current process. Just review how each rule is worded and how they want it applied and rewrite it. Breakdown the card so the rules are easier to reference in the field.

It shouldn't require an act of Congress for UKC to reformat the card and rewrite the rules so it is easier to apply by handlers and officials. The idea that an entire book needs to be availble just to comprehend the rules is a joke.

I'd like to believe I am just as intelligent as the average coonhunter and I believe I've put as much effort or more than the average coonhunter to know and understand UKC rules and how they want them applied, both as a handler and an official, and it seems every week I'm learning something new, seeing others not being able to comprehend them, or seeing them interpreted differently.

Frankly, its tiring and frustrating that so much effort needs to be made simply to get a fair shake at the game of competition coonhunting.

Amen ... to the tenth power !

Posted by Justin Smith on 09-10-2010 11:49 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Bill(Chew)
Chester I would like for you to write down the bennifits of the count down rule. I personally don't see any. If you drop the first tree to 100 points then I would not be against it as much.

Ukc runs two hour hunts and the count down would creat a larger point spread and people would leave because they can't catch up. I've been hunting in hunts for over 35 years and I've seen very few "me too" dogs win.

In a one hour hunt the count down makes more sence because you are limited to one or two coon in much of the coon hunting world. plus you are starting with 100 tree points instead of 125.

Treeing coon is the name of the game ... 125 points for first tree and then the countdown would be the most like scoring with a .22 as you could ever get .... I can't fathom why anyone would be against it .

Posted by fullhouse on 09-11-2010 12:12 AM:

1. I know there is exceptions but it seems in my neck of the woods 90% of the owners of what I would call a coondog is in favor of a countdown on tree. To me it only makes sence that a dog that comes in at 4:59 shouldnt get the same reward as one who trees 5 seconds behind the first dog there. If it was up to me a tree would be closed after a minute or 2 .

2. This will make a lot of people mad and I know there might be a few legitamate exceptions but if you cant tear away from a cell phone for a few hours DONT GO TO A HUNT. Its amazing we went years and years and years without needing a phone attached to our hip and we got along just fine.

Posted by longshot on 09-11-2010 12:42 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Justin Smith
Treeing coon is the name of the game ... 125 points for first tree and then the countdown would be the most like scoring with a .22 as you could ever get .... I can't fathom why anyone would be against it .

If you use that logic , where does it end ? Why not give the first tree 200 points ? Heck, why not get some pointy hats and Kazoo's to blow a celebration when the first coon is treed and crown the winner right there ?

Why does a football touchdown only get 6 points ? Touchdowns are the name of the game right ? Why not give a touchdown 12 points ?

The reason is to keep the game competitive and keep people in the game to the end.

Actually I like some things about the countdown and I hunt a dog that WOULD benefit from a countdown. I just don't like giving both a countdown rule AND 125 points. I could be persuaded to support a countdown IF its worded right in the future.

__________________
Mark Reavis
Southwest Missouri
Dual Grand Champion Super Sambo

Posted by Justin Smith on 09-11-2010 12:51 AM:

Mark , I don't really care how many points they award , we can count by Roman Numerals or RPM's for all I care ... but treeing coon is worth more than just barking on the ground .. they can babble, run trash , etc.. and get on the card and keep those dishonest points by honoring a coondog ... so what are strike points really worth ?

Treeing a coon in competition first and staying hooked is what it's all about ... I would think that for most folks , getting the countdown would have been worth it even if they dont' like the move to 125 for first tree.

If you score with a .22 like folks say is the best way ... does not the dog that trees a live coon first and the most skunk the other dogs ? I can't see how you would argue that the rule changed that failed would not parallel that ? Are you sure that last post is your final answer ?

As for the party , I've sure hunted with folks that did just that when they actually saw a live coon in the tree .... I'm past all that ... but it goes against everything in my nature to turn down a party ... so let's do it !!!!

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