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-- Babbling rule question? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=299667)

if the guy didnt strike his dog in there is no reason to minuse him before the miute is up....and i have a ? for all you that say there is no track evident....do you have a nose that strong that smell coon...when i went to the Oaks my dog barked the whole time he smelled coons and was letting me know it thats what i train my dogs to do not dont say a thing until they get to the tree that are slick treeing idiots....im done now im off my soap box

Stokes , you didnt read the post very well. I said the dog barked all the way from the clubhouse in the dogbox , then barked through the minute , then made some laps around us in the field barking , then tore out after the other dogs barking.

Good grief , has anyone on here ever saw a babbler before? Do you think every time a dog barks there has to be a coon track? Do you ever think any dog anywhere has ever babbled? Is there no way your ever going to minus a dog for it and what does the dog have to do to deserve a minus in your eyes?

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Originally posted by Treed First
Your not understanding my question. The dog was minused for babbling. The question is , when can he be struck back in? The dog never shut up.

The judge said he couldn't be struck back in until a track was evident. That time came when the other dogs opened 300 yards deep. So who get first strike and where does dog A get struck back in?

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I minused a dog a couple of weeks ago for babbling. The dog was just standing beside us barking at the handler after the minute was up. As usual , he threw a fit about it and said I had to run the 8 on him. I said nope he's minused and even if I did run the 8 on him , he would still be minused for quiting track and standing around us ( which he never did have a track anyway.)

The handler blew up and withdrew and went to the truck. This thread is pretty typical of all the differing opinions on babbling. Beats all I've ever seen.

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Mark Reavis
Southwest Missouri
Dual Grand Champion Super Sambo

I just wish someone could show me the Rule that says a dog struck in the FIRST MINUTE HAS TO CARY A TRACK!

Most of us know when a dog is babbling and this dog should be minused for it. But don't use the because it was struck within the first minute it has to cary a track TRICK, this is NOT true and there is no rule that says this!

We all agree after the first minute a dog has to be struck on or before the 3rd bark each time they are released. From the sounds of it this dog should have been minused out before it got the 300 yards to the other dogs IMHO.

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Frank Manning
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Originally posted by Rip


That stupid minute is the worst rule ever put on paper in any sport.

Hey, I have an idea, let's make it easier to hunt babblin dogs and harder to minus them. Let's let them break the rules for a full minute each drop. That's a great idea......................

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good question??

i know one thing, if i hunted in TN and rip was my judge i would request a new judge from the moh. im sure he is a great guy but seems like an unfair judge.

i could see the minus if a dog blew out of there barking then shut up then opened again in a whole new place but if a dog keeps barking you have to assume hes on track there is no way you can say hes not. if the other dogs arent barking maybe they are the potlickers. i say you have to give the dog the benefit of the dought

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Nt. Ch. PKC Ch Dozers Ann

This is a great subject!!!

I have hunted this past year agianst a handler and his dog and he strikes him in right off the leash. The dog has babbled around for long and short periods of times. I have seen the dogs struck in on babble rule to have him shut up as soon as babble time is up. The judge waits for a few minutes to give him the "benifit of the doubt them puts the 8 on him. Several minutes go by and the dog gets close to getting minused by the 8 then other dogs get struck in and save him on the 8. I have seen this dog keep the first strike open all hunt as other dogs have treed and he has been no where around. I run into this a lot out west, and yes you do have to put a war bonnet on!!!

I know theres the "none working dog rule" and the "Babbling" rule my question is how do you prove both rules and how do you go about enforcing them? It gets old watching this dog and other dogs strike in on babble rule and babble around all nite really not produicng anything. This dog will leave his supposable track and every once in while tree with the other dogs, and is usually the last dog to tree, and trees with seconds left on the tree???

I am a Master of Hounds and am always studying up for when I have to make a decision in the woods or the club house. It just seems like a few of the rules are grey and guys are able to skate around them. I am the first to give the dog the "benifit of the doubt" but i have watched dogs like this eat up first strike and second strike points while the dogs that are really out there working are not awarded for there hard work and honesty???? They interfere with the dogs points that are producing in my opinion.

quote:

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Originally posted by Rip
No, no no

A dog CAN be minused at any time if the judge believes him to be struck on the babble.

Whether it's the first 5 seconds, 5 minutes or 50 minutes. If the dog is babblin it can and SHOULD be minused.

The minute is the amount of time that dogs are ALLOWED to babble and not be struck in, but if they are babblin and struck in during the minute you can minus them immediately.

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Todd you are so wrong about that. Just read the rulebook. Where does it say when you can minus a dog for babbling? It doesn't! You can minus a dog and in fact must minus a dog for babbling ANYTIME it is struck babbling. That is the rule.
Rip has explained it as well as it could ever possbly be explained. Either we are willing to accept the rule as it is and follow it or we aren't. That is the only decision left to be made.

Jim, I agree. In fact if they are babbling. (4h) I think we are on the same page here. I may not have explained it well enough. I am also talking bout dog in question which never shut up. I am just saying it would be a tough call to minus him when he didnt shut up. I wasn't there to help with a call and its hard to get it across on here sometimes, everybody gets off on Tangents.
Thanks again. Jim

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Originally posted by blueman1tick
i know one thing, if i hunted in TN and rip was my judge i would request a new judge from the moh. im sure he is a great guy but seems like an unfair judge.

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Originally posted by Todd Miller
I dont believe you can minus them in the first minute if they have been struck, I believe it has to be after the first minute. I think your making up your own rules.

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Let's go huntin

As I have explained before all the minute does is suspend the 3 bark rule. It does absolutely nothing else. It offers no other protection other than protection from having to strike a dog in the first minute. It does not mean you CAN'T strike the dog in the first minute, and it does NOT mean a dog struck in the first minute is not subject to judging. All it is is saying that you don't have to strike a dog during the first minute.

That said, it's still the worst rule in organized sports anywhere.

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I am glad this had been clarified! I agree 100% with this! And I also think it's ridiculous to have a rule that gives the babbler a minute to break the rules. Lets see if there will be a rule that allows dogs declared treed the ability to leave the tree and check themselves. As long as they go back to the same tree no foul right ?!?!?!?

i wish dogs that checked the tree weren't penalized. these idiots that go in a slam a tree just because get a lot of dishonest points. even if i never win another hunt i hope every dog i ever own takes the time to check a tree

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Nt. Ch. PKC Ch Dozers Ann

They aren't penalized fot checking a tree. They get penalize when you pull the trigger too quick and tree your dog BEFORE it is done. A dog that is checking the tree isn't done.

on the babbling most are just excited they know they are about to have some fun and like to express it...Its like the guys that will not shut up while you are listening for your dog...

How about that guy that strikes his dog as soon as he cuts him loose cause he claims he is winding one right here but this dog seems to wind one on every drop i am talkin cut him loose dog leaves barking and is struck 5 seconds in on every drop

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How to score this babbling situation

I am a MOH, I have judged large events such as state hunts, B&T Days, etc. I am not bragging but I am willing to help others.
You can strike a dog in the first minute. If you, the judge, can see the dog when turned loose and he is not showing signs of tracking, but is "struck" in then minus him for babbling.

Let's say, he was struck, and out of view or sight and returns but not stopping while continuously barking, the judge should put the light on the dog and see if he is showing signs of tracking or if he is babbling.

"Babbling" should be judged in view of the dog.

If a dog is minused for babbling at any point and continues through on in the dark and the handler restrikes (though he never stopped barking) how can he now be minused if he is restruck and not in sight? What determines whether he has now hit a red hot track?
Bottom line judge the dog for what you see him doing. As far as the other three dogs, they could have came in from a different direction.