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-- Autumn Oaks Show (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=298385)

Wildhounds, I'm sorry that happened to you! The sad thing is, if you hit enough of the "big" shows you're going to encounter that sooner or later. I jumped right into the bigger events this year, and I hate to think how many times people have talked junk about me because they thought I didn't "belong" or my dogs weren't up to their level. Heck, I can tell you that some of my so called "friends" have probably bad mouthed me! I don't worry about it much anymore, but it would still make me ill to hear someone bad mouthing one of my dogs. I don't play into the whole show ring "clique" scene, but I'm just as proud of my dogs as the "big name" folks are of theirs. After all, I spend 3-4 hours a day working with my dogs (conditioning and such-that doesn't count hunting time), and I feel like I'm just as much entitled to show my dogs off as everyone else is. Keep your chin up and keep trying!

Congrats to the winners this year!

__________________
------------------------------
Poison Whiskey Coonhounds
Jessica O'Connor
CH'PR'Moss Blue Carolina Rain-Queen of Show, BBOA Zone 6 Championship
NITECH CH 'PR' Carolina Flo
CH 'PR' Poison Whiskey Waylon
CH 'PR' Cruse's I'm Your Huckleberry
CH'PR' PoisonWhiskey WildHoney
'PR' Poison Whiskey CowgirlsDontCry
CH'PR' Bowers & O'Connor's Foxy Roxy
PoisonWhiskey SonOfTheSouth

Poison Whiskey Hello Darlin'-2013 AL State BMOS, AL State Hall of Fame King of Show

PoisonWhiskey LilMsHonkyTonk

Coming Soon...
PoisonWhiskeyMaybeItWasMemphis
PoisonWhiskey Heart Like Mine
-------------------------
In loving memory...
CCH GRCH 'PR' Swampland Blue Gypsy-RIP sweet girl
'PR' Miller Time

Cleo and SCBluetickGal
Someday we should get together. and meet LOL
Great attitudes Love it!!!!

__________________
REMEMBER THIS IS MY OPINION!!!! No names were mention. If I offended someone then you must have a guilty conscience.

814-964-9399

RIP
GRNTCH CH 'PR' Cassandras Midnight Jenny

PLOTTS:

Grch 'PR' River Ridge Coo Coo Ca-Choo
Ch'PR' Tamarack's Redwood Secret
Ch'PR' Tamarack's A Shot In The Dark
'PR' Tamarack's DarkSide Ofthe Moon
Ch 'PR' River Ridge Ruby Tuesday

JESSICA AND I HAVE SHOWN TOGETHER.

SHE IS A WONDERFUL ASSET TO THIS SPORT.

SHE REMINDS ME ALOT OF MEGAN, WHO IN MY VERY WEAK OPINION, BESERVES TO HAVE HER PICTURE ON THE FIRST PAGE OF THIS WEB-SITE.

SORRY ABOUT MY SPELLING, I AM TRYING TO ANSWER PHONES AS WELL AS POST HERE.

I AM OFF MY SOAP~BOX NOW.

TAKE CARE FOLKS. HAVE FUN! JESS, ARE YOU SHOWING IN NEW HOLLAND SAT.?

__________________
BROKEN ROAD KENNEL
Breeding for the future of the Treeing Walker
"God bless the Broken Road"
~A man is only as good as his word~

Proud home to;

'PR' Kentucky River Fly Again (Kentucky River Rowdy frozen semen)
ACHA CHT x3 Broken Roads Little Texas (Kentucky River Rowdy x Houses Lipper's Hope)
CH Broken Roads Southern Stylish Boom (Kentucky River Rowdy x Houses Lipper's Hope)
Broken Road's Rowdy Lil Miss (Kentucky River Rowdy x Houses Lipper's Hope)
Broken Road's Meabie I will (Lipper's Rooster x Missy)
Broken Roads IMA Boomer2 (UKC NATL GRCH GRNTCH Honest Abe x Broken Roads Southern Stylish Boom
~~~~~Watch out!~~~~~
They just might make an IMPACT!

and the girls...Punkin and Tater!

Gone by never forgotten ~ Fly high my beautiful angels
~ GRCH GNTCH PKC SC Toucan Sam
~CH Toucan's Ugly Betty
~ CCH CH Southforks September Rain
~ Martin's Daisy JJ (what a beautiful litter you left behind)
~ Luke, the lab who brought us so many doves and ducks over the years
~ UKC GRCH,ACHA CH 2014 LWCH 2014 2 x's ACHA YOUTH WCH AKC CH AKC CH 'PR' Kentucky River Mundar ~ (Kentucky River Rowdy frozen semen) DNA Profiled ~ Fly high, old friend.

"The WILL of God will never take you where the GRACE of God can not protect you!"

I know when I'm watching a show it usually becomes obvious that certain entries really don't stand a chance of winning for various reasons ranging from scared to death, not worked with, handler not up to speed and sometimes just flat out not enough dog. None of this should stop anyone from participating if they want. At the end of the day a handful will go home having won some part of it and usually one or two that had a great day. The rest gave it try and lost but will hopefully try again. The ones that lost greatly out number the ones that won and that's what makes it so good when you do win and look around at what you accomplished.
Be aware of what you have because you're the one footing the bill and don't let one judge or person tell you your dog is great or bad because that is today and tomorrow could be completely different. The judge's opinion is the only one that counts at a show but yours counts just as much the rest of the time. Also be open minded because if you never ever win or just can't seem to beat certain dogs it's easy to say politics but that most likely isn't the problem.
Congratulations to all the winners at Autumn Oaks, whether or not any of us agree or disagree you stepped up and won at the 50th Anniversary and that's what we were all trying to do. WELL DONE.

oaks show

wery well put dale .. i enjoyed seeing my friends more then anything .. ill see some of you at the world.. have a safe trip..

__________________
CANYON CREEK KENNEL owner Steve Randolph, [home of top hunting and show treeing walker coon-hounds] THE PROUD HOME OF 2007 A.C.H.A. WORLD SHOW CHAMPION /UKC & AKC OPPOSITE SEX WORLD SHOW CHAMPION. 2006 BEST IN SHOW WINNER AT UKC, PREMIER. 2010 NATIONAL GRAND CHAMPION WALKER. 2010 OVERALL BROOD FEMALE WINNER.. AT AUTUMN OAKS.. [CCH.GRCH.HILLTOP LITTLE TAMMY]

Very Well said there Dale.,, I have always enjoy talking with you whenever I saw you at the events. You are very wise and knowledgeable..
I have won some and lost some but I always seem to have a good time meeting different people and such.
I used to cry injustice but now I just go with the flow and watch see what happens...
I still remember at English Days of '06 when Punkie won Best Female of Show on Saturday.. It was a surpise...
But what was the best, havin that hug from Janet Butcher and telling me how good I did.. that was the best.. and forming a friendship with Janet.. that was even better.....

__________________
REMEMBER THIS IS MY OPINION!!!! No names were mention. If I offended someone then you must have a guilty conscience.

814-964-9399

RIP
GRNTCH CH 'PR' Cassandras Midnight Jenny

PLOTTS:

Grch 'PR' River Ridge Coo Coo Ca-Choo
Ch'PR' Tamarack's Redwood Secret
Ch'PR' Tamarack's A Shot In The Dark
'PR' Tamarack's DarkSide Ofthe Moon
Ch 'PR' River Ridge Ruby Tuesday

quote:

---

Originally posted by SCBluetickGal
Wildhounds, I'm sorry that happened to you! The sad thing is, if you hit enough of the "big" shows you're going to encounter that sooner or later. I jumped right into the bigger events this year, and I hate to think how many times people have talked junk about me because they thought I didn't "belong" or my dogs weren't up to their level. Heck, I can tell you that some of my so called "friends" have probably bad mouthed me! I don't worry about it much anymore, but it would still make me ill to hear someone bad mouthing one of my dogs. I don't play into the whole show ring "clique" scene, but I'm just as proud of my dogs as the "big name" folks are of theirs. After all, I spend 3-4 hours a day working with my dogs (conditioning and such-that doesn't count hunting time), and I feel like I'm just as much entitled to show my dogs off as everyone else is. Keep your chin up and keep trying!

Congrats to the winners this year!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by s/s
We didn't win a thing at AO, but we left with our pride glowing, just for making the cut.

---

Note

First this event was far from being that of an AKC conformation show or Westminster.....there would have been NO bench! We would have entered. Moved around the ring, stacked our dogs on the ground (free stacking with very little down on our knees), the judge would evaluate, we do our down and back and then around to the end of the line. He might have moved us all as a group one more time, then boom... placed you one, two, three, four... you collect your ribbons and out the door!

Second.... I don't care if they tree a coon, or show on the bench. The point being correct structure and movement is REQUIRED to get you from point A to Point B. A could be the entrance to the ring or cutting loose for the chase.

Prof handlers (or names) can and will pinch toes to get the feet more cat like or up on toes, poke, bend, pinch... they have a technique. It was nice to see those that might not know all of this be given a chance in the winners circle. I didn't like see some of the younger generation get aggressive with their hound, or a big name individual use bait while in the duals class! But what can we do!

I applaude UKC staff for trying to make both movement important as well as keeping to the "bench show". Times are changing, and none of us like change. I'm not crazy that our TW breed is begining to look more like a small foxhound in structure. For those of us that saw this breed first hand in the beginning we have a more houndy stocky, level top line hound. BUT things have changed and though I read a standard one way, others see differently. Therefore we have change!

I see it going down two roads quicker then we can bring it together. I will breed for what I like in a hound - win or lose!

Stackemup
WOW go girl....
I wasnt there or anything..but you have some really good views..
I like that...

__________________
REMEMBER THIS IS MY OPINION!!!! No names were mention. If I offended someone then you must have a guilty conscience.

814-964-9399

RIP
GRNTCH CH 'PR' Cassandras Midnight Jenny

PLOTTS:

Grch 'PR' River Ridge Coo Coo Ca-Choo
Ch'PR' Tamarack's Redwood Secret
Ch'PR' Tamarack's A Shot In The Dark
'PR' Tamarack's DarkSide Ofthe Moon
Ch 'PR' River Ridge Ruby Tuesday

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wildhounds
I have shown a couple years now at AO to have fun, support AO and the UKC Coonhound program. My show Ch. hunting hound (soon to be Nt Ch.) has never won at AO, but I like to show him there anyway!

This year, though, a conversation IN the ring during our puppy class made me rather sad.

My pup (2, actually, who are actually nicely trained since 12 weeks of age when I got them) was rather nervous about the slippery floors, loud speakers and big echoey building so did not gait as well as she can (on and off again) and stacked nice but was not in the "look at me" mode, but nothing a skilled judge cannot see right through.

While I did not know handlers could have conversation with the judge DURING the class, a rather 'famous handler' in my class (and who won it with a rather weedy greyhound, roach-backed, sickle tailed dog) was conversing to the judge that my pup should not even have BEEN in the class and that I should have "at least had the deceny to TRAIN the pup." The judge (who is also UKC pres) agreed.

I came to UKC because it supports 'fun and family' etc.

I did not expect to be considered an embarassment to AO or lowering the quality of the show by entering a pup who could not be perfect when she got overwhelmed.

Someone else outside the ring also said my pups would 'do better in AKC because they LOOK like coonhounds."

Say what?

My suggestion would be, I suppose, that if us peons just having fun with our hounds and wanting to show our good moving, structurally sound (and PRETTY) dogs, but whose pups might not be perfectly behaved in the ring (or look like coonhounds instead of greyhounds) are somehow dissing AO, that AO should require certain pre-qualifying shows that will not place puppies who may act like puppies at some point in the show.

I still think those comments are very sad, and I certainly do not have the political clout as this famour handler to be joshing with the judge in middle of the class, but jeesh!

At least reserve conversing with the judge AFTER the judging is complete?

---

__________________
Milarken Kennels
Home of;
Ch. Milarkens Dog Of interest(Pita)
Milarkens Coronet. Bleu(Gandalf)
Milarkens Army of 12 Monkees(Pippin)
Gone but not forgotten
Grfch. Grch. Milarkens Reevewood Shi-Ster
Ch. Milarkens Sportie Shortie

very well put dale

as a judge myself i was very pleased with the out come of the show it was handled profesnally and came of so. i was proud to see good clean honest judging with no hint of politics or clicks. i judge dogs not people and fail to be impressed by many whos intention is to do so. it can be dogs ,horses, or cars i start them all out a 100 and it can go down from there. but 1 thing that is of great importance to me and should be to others is to give each exzibator and thr dog ,horse ,or car the respect they deserve look them over thourly give them the common coursty i hate to see small shows and some bigger either give a dog a passing glance and go right to the winner they pick.be fair everyone paid to show and deserves your time you may not pick them but you may see something you missed like many other things judge as you would like to be judged yourslef. WHEEE got that of my cheast felt good

__________________
IF ITS CALLED COMMON SENSE WHY IS IT NOT COMMON

First of all, it costs the just as much to feed an ugly hound as it does to feed a good looking one. With that being said, there has been waaaaay to much seperation between the dogs that get night hunted and the ones that get loped around a show ring. We as coonhunters have strayed so far from the original intent of the "wild raccoon" hunts and "bench" shows. It is not very often that the dog that wins the bench show gets entered in the hunt.
For those of you that believe this to be untrue, then why was there ever a "dual" champion catagory ever created if the original intent was to keep the conformation of the "coon" hound to a certain standard?? This clearly seperates the "show" dogs and the ones that are hunted. It's gone so far that we are "gaiting" what are supposed to be "coon" hounds in a ring.
A dog should have to be at least a Nite champion before entered in a show ring. After all, if "Promoting Better Walkers" or any other breed is what the goal is what better way to keep the breed goals intact???

Tamarack~ Thanks for the kind words.

(And great post Dale(

I wasn't expecting the pups to win because they did not show their best, but they DID become relaxed as the event went on and left that day with that experience under their belt in the arena environment, and we had a GREAT time being there.

One thing I like about the Coonhound events is most of the folks love to talk dogs and are very friendly and willing to chat or answer questions, there are plenty of nice dogs to see and every year we meet new people and enjoy running in to them again in the various club events.

AO is one of those events where so many great hounds convene, it is a place we get to 'put a face with the name' and can meet in person those amazing dogs we read about or hear about over the years but have never had a chance to hunt with or show with.

Next stop we go to zone finals this weekend for the World Hunt with our *show* champion! Since he is so much coondog, I "owe" him a Nt Ch title, because that is what he loves and does best!

His nice structure and FABULOUS movement (and just being a VERY handsome guy!) allows him to do well on the bench most everyplace he goes. Maybe it is my life spent in the equine world, but I GOTTA have working animals I can also enjoy looking at! <g>

And our beautiful puppy girls will also likely finish their show ch titles before their nt. ch because plenty of judges really DO like the hounds with a bit more bone, sloped shoulder and a typey hound head etc, but they are starting to track and tree their own coon now, so are well on their way!

thats the spirit wildhounds i was the same ways till i thought bout it and then i relized hey im not here to please everyone else im here for just the fun of the show u no its just a great thing to do ive only been in it for 2 years and it has bee so much fun and it has helped me to grow in wat i love to do good luck weith every thing ok

__________________
baby blues

MY OPPINION!

THIS YEARS SHOW WAS ONE OF THE BEST I HAVE SEEN YET! Great job by the judges I just commented to a friend (also a bench show judge) on how the caliber of dog was so much better this year then I have seen in the past... I also asked her if it was due to breding better dogs or because people knew that these judges are not political and are choising the best dogs? HMMmm
I am a judge so I enjoyed Not seeing the high stepping straight shoulder/hocks as I have seen in many years past. Also upon looking at the 50 years of the past pictures I personally could see the improvement of conformation and over all appearance improve! more of the "older" ( past pics) showed more weak backed, flatter feet and out at the elbows so I am for bettering the bread as it only makes the dogs last longer in the woods.

__________________
Heart Throb Coon Hounds and
show supplies
contact info: 440-645-7875 or
Heart.throbcoonhounds@gmail.com

show

mutts i understand what your point is butt you look at jet8 and his wins both in the woods and on the bench he looked pretty darn good at the oaks,, and honest abe he is world show and grand nite champion, pretty impressive to me,, they are several others that are hunted and showed.. ive had several dual champions in my time but they all have to gait to .. so it is not hard to keep the confermation on your hunting dog lots of hunting dogs are very correct in conformation.. and from years of hunting there feet get broke down but that comes from sometimes the feed they are feed and what is in there kennel lots of people use concrete floors and that breaks down feet bad.. so just look at the conformation of a dog and check its ancesters and you might find it supersing what they really out of..

__________________
CANYON CREEK KENNEL owner Steve Randolph, [home of top hunting and show treeing walker coon-hounds] THE PROUD HOME OF 2007 A.C.H.A. WORLD SHOW CHAMPION /UKC & AKC OPPOSITE SEX WORLD SHOW CHAMPION. 2006 BEST IN SHOW WINNER AT UKC, PREMIER. 2010 NATIONAL GRAND CHAMPION WALKER. 2010 OVERALL BROOD FEMALE WINNER.. AT AUTUMN OAKS.. [CCH.GRCH.HILLTOP LITTLE TAMMY]

I did admit that feeding ugly dogs costs the same as feeding a good looking one. I feed good looking ones. I feed good looking ones and have had /made many dual grands. My point was that I think there is too much emphasis on looks and less on ability when people go to breed and to shows. Remember they are supposed to be raccoon treeing hounds first. That was the original intentions of the nite hunts. Having one that's easy on the eyes helps but it has never treed coons. I know when I go to breed or buy a pup I could care less if its mommy or daddy can stand on the bench and hold its tail in the air with no help. JMO

dont get me wrong Mutt,but what % of any reg. make nt. ch.

I have no idea what % make nite champions. Again I feel the point has been missed. If you are asking what percentage finish out by the measuring stick WE have created and endorsed then obviously it's not enough. Ya"ll can feed whatever you want. I just feel while people were loping dogs around a show ring or worrying about how they stack the emphasis on producing dogs that consistently tree raccoons.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mutts
I have no idea what % make nite champions. Again I feel the point has been missed. If you are asking what percentage finish out by the measuring stick WE have created and endorsed then obviously it's not enough. Ya"ll can feed whatever you want. I just feel while people were loping dogs around a show ring or worrying about how they stack the emphasis on producing dogs that consistently tree raccoons.

---

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that was a easy out.what do you guys do with the old men
in clubs that are there ever time the door opens cooking
and what not to say they have to be a nt. ch to show

I had a great time at Autumn Oaks. I absolutely love my little hound. Because she was the only one in her Jr class and there was only one female in the puppy class they were shown together. I was told to go in the ring before the puppy class was at the end of the runway. I took my female down and back twice, put her on the bench set her front feet, judge looked at her teeth, I quickly went to set her back legs as the judge picked the other hound. I did not even get to bench my hound.
In a previous class, I watched the judge give several pats to a Black and Tan that kept laying down on the bench and the guy did finally get him to stand up. (kudos to that handler for showing his hound I am sure he will do better next time)

This is not sour grapes I am not saying anything negative about the other dog. I do think I should have had the opportunity to show my female on the bench. This is a Bench Show I have NEVER been so rushed
Maybe as a novice handler I need to hire a professional next time.

NO Way! We will work harder and learn more and we will be back!

I also agree with Pretty is as pretty does and I really enjoy my girl in the woods.

PS: Congratulations to everyone on their wins! Including the the hound that won our breed.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wildhounds
I have shown a couple years now at AO to have fun, support AO and the UKC Coonhound program. My show Ch. hunting hound (soon to be Nt Ch.) has never won at AO, but I like to show him there anyway!

This year, though, a conversation IN the ring during our puppy class made me rather sad.

My pup (2, actually, who are actually nicely trained since 12 weeks of age when I got them) was rather nervous about the slippery floors, loud speakers and big echoey building so did not gait as well as she can (on and off again) and stacked nice but was not in the "look at me" mode, but nothing a skilled judge cannot see right through.

While I did not know handlers could have conversation with the judge DURING the class, a rather 'famous handler' in my class (and who won it with a rather weedy greyhound, roach-backed, sickle tailed dog) was conversing to the judge that my pup should not even have BEEN in the class and that I should have "at least had the deceny to TRAIN the pup." The judge (who is also UKC pres) agreed.

I came to UKC because it supports 'fun and family' etc.

I did not expect to be considered an embarassment to AO or lowering the quality of the show by entering a pup who could not be perfect when she got overwhelmed.

Someone else outside the ring also said my pups would 'do better in AKC because they LOOK like coonhounds."

Say what?

My suggestion would be, I suppose, that if us peons just having fun with our hounds and wanting to show our good moving, structurally sound (and PRETTY) dogs, but whose pups might not be perfectly behaved in the ring (or look like coonhounds instead of greyhounds) are somehow dissing AO, that AO should require certain pre-qualifying shows that will not place puppies who may act like puppies at some point in the show.

I still think those comments are very sad, and I certainly do not have the political clout as this famour handler to be joshing with the judge in middle of the class, but jeesh!

At least reserve conversing with the judge AFTER the judging is complete?

---

__________________
ThunderRock Black & Tans
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