UKC Forums - Black and Tan Colored Redbones

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- Redbones (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=51)
-- Black and Tan Colored Redbones (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=292859)

Posted by masterd1976 on 08-23-2009 02:08 PM:

Just my two cents, but it more of possibility that they were breed to a dobberman, to get them more cat footed for the bench. I've heard of breeders doing this.

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Posted by Richard Nethery on 08-23-2009 02:36 PM:

I have heard of that also, I would hunt Black and Tans, if it wasnt so hard to get a good one. When you do it will cost you a fortune. I am just disapointed with the breed.
I like the looks of them, and the mouth they usually have, but cant keep them streight, deer and hog runningist dogs I ever had.

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Posted by Janet Ford on 08-29-2009 09:46 PM:

I am keeping one of the b/t colored females and I will be sending in her DNA to a company that tests the DNA and sends a certificate back to you telling you the primary, secondary breeds that are in there as well as anything that may be a mystery due to not having enough DNA to register a positive result but does register as something other than primary. I will have no problem in posting the results of this. If it shows something else in there, I will also test the parents. If it shows no other breeds than redbone, we shall have ultimate proof.
Don't know how accurate this testing is but I'm still doing it. I'll also inquire with various scientists to see how accurate they feel it may be and I need to find out how many generations of 'pure' it takes to register on this DNA test as pure.

The b/t pups I sell will be sold with a spay/neuter request.

It really is not far fetched. Redbones did not start out red. You're going to get throw backs.

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Posted by Janet Ford on 08-29-2009 09:52 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Nethery
I have heard of that also, I would hunt Black and Tans, if it wasnt so hard to get a good one. When you do it will cost you a fortune. I am just disapointed with the breed.
I like the looks of them, and the mouth they usually have, but cant keep them streight, deer and hog runningist dogs I ever had.

I suppose it all depends on your personal experiences. Our pup trainer is a b/t. We haven't bred her. She's 9 now, I think. We purchased her from Gary Plumb. Super gal. NONE of our current dogs have ever run deer.

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Posted by Richard Nethery on 08-30-2009 01:59 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Janet Ford
I suppose it all depends on your personal experiences. Our pup trainer is a b/t. We haven't bred her. She's 9 now, I think. We purchased her from Gary Plumb. Super gal. NONE of our current dogs have ever run deer.

I guess, I hunt alot of deer territory, and often turn my hounds loose in front of herds of deer and hogs. Hunt around Deer Feeders and I have never seen a Black and Tan, that could handle this, I tried hard to have a good black and tan,Tried several, spent a fortune, and have no use for them. From my experience, they are a big game running hound.
If I ever take up Hog Hunting, the Black and Tan will be my breed again.

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Posted by Janet Ford on 08-30-2009 02:17 PM:

We live in heavy deer territory. The deer come right up to the dogs that are in the outside kennels here (most of ours are indoors but we rotate the dogs). The deer come right up to our house. Drives my JRTs crazy but our coonhounds could care less except for one redbone male but then only if he's kenneled, never when he's been on leash or loose. I think it's boredom in the kennel. Zero deer running here but PLENTY of opportunities. We have red, english and b/t.

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Posted by c r robbins on 08-30-2009 10:59 PM:

Janet, your PM box is full, resending e-mail .

Posted by Richard Nethery on 08-30-2009 11:06 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Janet Ford
We live in heavy deer territory. The deer come right up to the dogs that are in the outside kennels here (most of ours are indoors but we rotate the dogs). The deer come right up to our house. Drives my JRTs crazy but our coonhounds could care less except for one redbone male but then only if he's kenneled, never when he's been on leash or loose. I think it's boredom in the kennel. Zero deer running here but PLENTY of opportunities. We have red, english and b/t.

I am glad you have not had the same problems with Black and Tans that I have had.

Janet, I am giving the Black and Tan Breed one more chance, this is it, and its with a Blood line, that I have never tried, The Schienker Line.
I will be hunting a hound of this Bloodline this winter, and If its like the rest I have tried, It will be the last one I ever mess with.
I will give it a fair chance, I hope this hound does good.

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Posted by Emily on 08-31-2009 12:43 AM:

Janet
I have several old books with pictures of "redbones" that look more like high tan walkers than anything else--way more than saddlebacked. Unfortunately, the photos are in black and white so you can't see anything subtle about the coloration.

there is a throwback redbone that was sold without papers to a guy near me--no idea what bloodline--who looks like a monkey-faced b&t without pencil lines on toes, except that her "tan" is much redder than a typical b&t. She is a good looking hound and is built like a typical redbone, not a typical b&t.

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Posted by Janet Ford on 09-04-2009 04:48 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by c r robbins
Janet, your PM box is full, resending e-mail .

Sorry about that. I'm on a road trip. Currently in Texas. I'll clean it up asap. I'll go look for your email. I'm far behind on all things computer right now.

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Posted by Janet Ford on 09-04-2009 04:50 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Nethery
I am glad you have not had the same problems with Black and Tans that I have had.

Janet, I am giving the Black and Tan Breed one more chance, this is it, and its with a Blood line, that I have never tried, The Schienker Line.
I will be hunting a hound of this Bloodline this winter, and If its like the rest I have tried, It will be the last one I ever mess with.
I will give it a fair chance, I hope this hound does good.

Sure hope this hound does really well for you. I've only just branched into including b/ts into our pack a few years ago but I'm really enjoying mine.

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Posted by Janet Ford on 09-04-2009 04:54 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Emily
Janet
I have several old books with pictures of "redbones" that look more like high tan walkers than anything else--way more than saddlebacked. Unfortunately, the photos are in black and white so you can't see anything subtle about the coloration.

there is a throwback redbone that was sold without papers to a guy near me--no idea what bloodline--who looks like a monkey-faced b&t without pencil lines on toes, except that her "tan" is much redder than a typical b&t. She is a good looking hound and is built like a typical redbone, not a typical b&t.

Emily,

That sounds like a fun looking redbone. Wonder what the bloodlines would be.

Do you have the names of the publications so I could look them up? And if anyone here has any old coonhound books that either show or discuss coonhound history of any of the breeds, I'd be willing to purchase them from you. I'd like more research quality books/magazines.

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Posted by jdgher on 09-04-2009 05:36 PM:

It happens.

B and T Redbone pups. Saw it 20 years ago, still see it sometimes now. Freaked out the first litter of redbones I raised, when first born they all looked like blackish and tanish with white stripe from chin down the neck to the belly. I thought a cur dog had bred my little pr female. A couple days later only one pup was black and tan. All the rest ended up all red with dark redish black stipe down their back and tail ( totally meeting redbone standard). The black and tan pup was given to a hide hunter.
Well anyway I've seen it come from a few different lines. Seems like some females when crossed with certain males it happens. Funny thing is first litter may have 3 b and t' s then make same cross again and all pups are red.
I figure it will always happen, the genes are there and they always will be.
I would not count this cross out especially if these pups make good coon hunting dogs ( I think several other breeders wouldn't count this cross out ).
Register the reds and cull or give away the blacks to the hide hunters.
Remember, some believe the black and tan and redbone were brothers and sisters when it all started years ago before registration and selective breeding. ( makes since )
OH, and some stud dog owners say " my dog has never thrown a black and tan, maybe true, but if the stud meets up with enough females there is a good chance he'll throw a black one or 2.
No big deal in my opinion.
Darrin

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Posted by Kenneth Tavares on 09-05-2009 05:14 PM:

The redbones have hope after all!!!

Barry Morris,
Call me when your bitch comes in heat and I will give you a free breeding to Son!

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Tone it down guys, or they will delete another good topic...

Posted by Janet Ford on 09-05-2009 09:18 PM:

I just left Branson, MO. Been gone for 18 days.
John just told me my b/t colored pups aren't so b/t anymore but "a funny reddish color". I'll videotape them when I get home and show everyone.

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Posted by riproarinkennel on 09-06-2009 02:06 AM:

KENNETH

quote:
Originally posted by Kenneth Tavares
The redbones have hope after all!!!

Barry Morris,
Call me when your bitch comes in heat and I will give you a free breeding to Son!

He said he would hold you to that. Says he's going to name a male from that cross Rip-Roarin' Son of my Bitch. His female looks like she has some black and tan in her already. In the picture, his pup is on the left and my pup is on the right. Both are shemales.
Janet

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Posted by Kenneth Tavares on 09-06-2009 07:25 AM:

Re: KENNETH

quote:
Originally posted by riproarinkennel
Says he's going to name a male from that cross Rip-Roarin' Son of my Bitch.

That is a good one!!! LOL

Posted by Nitehunter on 09-06-2009 03:38 PM:

I remember 35 yrs ago when I was attending Cornell University (where they have a vet school) I was in the library bored (after checking out the chicks) so I was pulling out books on coonhounds. There was one written by a veterinarian and in the book he had the ancestory of the breeds documented. This may hurt some feelings, but in the book he noted the Redbone hounds as being decendents of the Black & Tan breed.

My guess is he may be referring to saddleback black & tans back when the book was written, probably 60 yrs ago, and when they had pups without any saddles, they seperated them and started crossing them on each other to get a line of red bones that later grew into a breed that had its own standard. If all of this is true, then I would expect that anything carrying some of those genes with enough dogs crossed back and forth that carried that gene would somewhere connect and give you some black dogs. My guess is that you would not want to make the cross with the same parents again, and find something that doesn't have alot of the same ancestry criss crossed 4 or 5 generations back. I am a B&T man, so I think those black pups look pretty good.

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Posted by Janet Ford on 09-14-2009 04:52 PM:

As promised, I took some videos of these pups.
They are 5 wks old.

Being shown raccoon hide for the first time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nkf0Ld4rhd0

Playing in yard:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJ7i1ZQKQdQ

Hey, Dave, don't suppose you remember the title of that book? I'd like to read it.

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Posted by gi_meredbones on 11-30-2009 04:56 PM:

black n tan pups

had a litter show up like this, black and tans are just as good looking as the red bones. janet the mother came from you i got her in december 05.

Posted by BAWL_TRACK on 11-30-2009 06:23 PM:

theres a old sayin i think maybe most know what im talkin bout lol but i think a blk&tan is in the ped not far back not talking bout when they were started either might of not been you that bk&tan come from but maybe an grandparent that has a strongggg blk gene threw cause most everthing ive seen bred to red bones came out red ............ an how would you register them ??? but in your cause if there dna. i'd get get the papers they cant tell you no if you got the dna. can they? .....just curious never heard of people tryin to register off colord full blooded dogs an heard the out come

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Posted by JEFFHESTER on 11-30-2009 06:43 PM:

Seen it before

A local around here that hunts redbones had it happen. They were as nice as the ones in the pics. I believe his dogs went back on Woodpecker. This happened 20 years ago.
Jeff

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Posted by riproarinkennel on 07-25-2010 08:15 PM:

TOP

Posted by Kenneth Tavares on 07-25-2010 09:15 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Kenneth Tavares
The redbones have hope after all!!!

Barry Morris,
Call me when your bitch comes in heat and I will give you a free breeding to Son!

Is this why you brought the post to the top... wanting your free breeding to Son?

Posted by riproarinkennel on 07-26-2010 12:29 PM:

LMAO

quote:
Originally posted by Kenneth Tavares
Is this why you brought the post to the top... wanting your free breeding to Son?

ACTUALLY ... IT WAS FOR SOMEONE WHO SENT ME A PM ABOUT BLACK-N-TAN REDBONES.

DOES THE OFFER STILL STAND ? LOL.

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