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-- Why Did Sackett Jr. Reproduce ? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=239)

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Originally posted by Adam Mims
Now let me ask you this. How do you get around some of the faults that Jr blood has. Don't get me wrong, I am advocate for Jr blood. Alot of JR blood reproduces weak mouths, and sometimes laziness. Why would you continue to linebreed on one strain.

There has been more than one dominating, superior stud that has come out of the Walker breed, so why concentrate on one?

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Blister1

I was just saying the faults that I have noticed in some of his offspring. All dogs have faults and every one will reproduce faults. I am not saying that it was consistent, it is rare and could come from the mother, but I have noticed some with this fault.

If you noticed I said alot of Jr blood reproduces weak mouths. I was referring more to his offspring. Like Rat Attack. he does have alot of weak mouth dogs, and I consider tree happy dogs to be lazy. I am not knocking Rat, I have pup here out of rat that money can't buy. If you have not seen many Jr BLOODED dogs with a weak mouth then go to a hunt and draw out with a cast full of rat pups. Some will have huge mouths, but 1 in 4 will have squeal mouths that are weak.

Like I said I AM NOT KNOCKING RAT PUPS. I will continue to hunt then as long as they are around, weak mouth and all.

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Lipper is to coonhunting what the Rose bowl is to football, THE GRANDADDY OF THEM ALL!

My hounds are the hardest hunting --loudest-prettiest in woods and on bench--not only mine--but most all of the rock river hounds i've hunted with--hard going--the only fault i have seen come out of Jr bred hounds is that some of the females are chop mouthed and sometimes a little on the high strung side--but most all male I've hunted with are known for there hard hunting

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Hillydale Kennels -Rock River & Finley River Bred Walkers

Like I said hunt with more grandpups of Jr and then tell me you havn't experienced some of the faults I listed. I have a rat pup that is the same way you described yours. But there are several out of him that are weak mouthed. If you havn't seen it then give it time, you will.

I am not saying it is overwhelming, it is there though. The majority don't carry these faults but they are there in that bloodline.

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Lipper is to coonhunting what the Rose bowl is to football, THE GRANDADDY OF THEM ALL!

quote:

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Originally posted by Adam Mims
Now let me ask you this. How do you get around some of the faults that Jr blood has. Don't get me wrong, I am advocate for Jr blood. Alot of JR blood reproduces weak mouths, and sometimes laziness. Why would you continue to linebreed on one strain.

There has been more than one dominating, superior stud that has come out of the Walker breed, so why concentrate on one?

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Tradeoffs...

With every blood line there are tradeoffs. I prefer Lipper blood over any out there. There are alot of Lipper bred dogs that have a big problem treeing, and they have been known to be trashy.

So, in saying that, I am in no way trying to degrade the Jr bloodline. Without it the Walker breed would be lacking some extremly nice hounds. It is just unbeleivable obvious to me that the weak mouths are prevalent, and if you havn't seen some laziness out of them then you will. I know for every 1 of the kind I am talking about there are 10 that are the opposite. I am willing to trade a weak mouth for a go yonder, get hooked, stay allnight, with the meat coondog.

Part of the reason the walker breed has progressed while others have stayed the same is because of the recognition of faults and breeding away from them. Some of you that get your panties in a wad over some things I said need to face the facts of the situation. I know in my case I try not to see the faults in Lipper bred hounds because I prefer those type hounds. It seems with the Jr bloodline there are some that think the way I do of the Lipper line. other than what I have stated there are no big faults in the bloodline, and I consider that close to perfection of a strain of hounds. Without a doubt that line reproduces, and I don't own a dog that don't have Jr in them.

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Lipper is to coonhunting what the Rose bowl is to football, THE GRANDADDY OF THEM ALL!

JAY (Sackett, Jr.)

I spent many nights with Jay, he has stayed at our house, and sat in chairs to eat ice cream with me. I saw one of those rolls of money that was offered for him. Like his owner, he was dedicated to coonhunting, and made a huge contribution to it.

As someone who has been around livestock all my life, as well as the dogs, I have had lots of experience in breeding animals. No scientific information has to this point bettered any species of animal. They can do indiviual things, but at the expense of other traits thus far. Inbreeding in animals has never proven as succussful as in plants, partially because you cannot recreate the same surrondings or training of hounds nearly as easily.

James Merchant is right, Jay was very prepotent freak of nature, but if used correctly, all species have benefitted from these type animals. He got his color from Boone, and a lot of ability from Yadkin River. How many would have bred, if he had been colored like his dad? He was owned by an honest man, who doesn't write exaggered ads, just turns his dog loose, and does more hunting in a week than many in a year.

No dog has ever sired all good ones, but his percentage will not likely be topped in our lifetimes. Thanks to all that bred to him, the Walker breed has improved itself, and from there we should move forward.

'nuff said...........

That was a very good post.

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Lipper is to coonhunting what the Rose bowl is to football, THE GRANDADDY OF THEM ALL!

YOU TELL THEM ALAN!!!!!!!!!!!! way to go!!!!!!
Scott

well heres my two cents. i will never own a dog with jr in the line again. every one i have ever hunted with has been a chop mouth slick treeing idiot. no real track power and i have seen lazyness in them alot. they run through the wood treeing on the first tree that a coon thouhgt about climbing. that is not a coon dog in my book thats a dog that wins pkc hunts on circle points. ill take a good ole cold nosed track dog that gets second or even third strikeand first or second tree and realy has the coon. that is the way that it should be. i want to see coon not a empty tree.

Mr. Trumble,

I have hunted with probably some where around 100 Sackett Jr. dogs. I haven't seen those qualities at all. I will admit I raised some females who didn't have the best mouth, but that was a trait I brought into my crosses.

What I would very highly recommend is that you take you best cold nosed dog up to Mr. Giddings house and see for yourself that the experiences you had doesn't categorize all Jr. dogs. Call Mr. Giddings, he will take you hunting.

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Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

Mr trumble, people like you make me very mad. you look at a few dogs and you blame the whole line. What is hard for me to understand about you type of people is. jr. has done so much in ukc and pkc that a stud will not do for years to come. but you type of people just want to bash the dog. before you open your big mouth you should load your self and what ever you are hunting and go to franks and just see what the line is all about. but I already know that you will come up with some excuse its to far or I dont hunt to much or some kind of thing I am sure!!! a wise man told me when they have done something good for the walker breed then they can talk!!!! sooooo!!!!!!!

scott

quote:

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Originally posted by harry trumble
well heres my two cents. i will never own a dog with jr in the line again. every one i have ever hunted with has been a chop mouth slick treeing idiot. no real track power and i have seen lazyness in them alot. they run through the wood treeing on the first tree that a coon thouhgt about climbing. that is not a coon dog in my book thats a dog that wins pkc hunts on circle points. ill take a good ole cold nosed track dog that gets second or even third strikeand first or second tree and realy has the coon. that is the way that it should be. i want to see coon not a empty tree.

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Harry, I said the same thing about Lipper years ago. So much for that!!!!!!!!

Sackett Jr. was the greatest reproducer of coondogs to date.

Blister...

You said you would never own a lipper dog again, or they were hot nosed slick treeing idiots??

I hope you weren't referring the the latter.

Actually, Night heat, per pups, had a better reproduction rate. Secondly, Jr was fortunate enough to have a lot of good females to cross on, just like rat, harry and so on and so on.

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Lipper is to coonhunting what the Rose bowl is to football, THE GRANDADDY OF THEM ALL!

Adam...

I said I would never own a Lipper bred dog. Sorry I wasn't clear about that. Now I have a whole kennel full, You see they have improved upon themselves through breeding.

Any one who ever hunted with direct sons or daughters off Lipper knows they were not hot nosed slick treeing idiots, Although I did have a couple here that were.

My point being I didn't like what I saw out of Lipper at first but have grown to appreciate what he did for the Walker breed. Thats all.

As far as Nite Heat throwing more coondogs than Sackett Jr, I don't have the exact numbers in front of me but I have hunted with alot of direct sons and daughters off both of them and I can honestly say this, Not taking anything away from Heat but I really think Sackett Jr still through more coondogs than any other dog to date. I really don't care what UKC'S numbers say, that means diddly to me.

Let me add it's obvious you don't care for Nailor bred hounds or Jr. bred hounds, hey thats ok everybody has a right to like and dislike whatever they want. But down the road my bet is you will find one you will hunt.

Why did Sackett Jr. Reproduce ?

I owned 3 hounds out of JR. 2 where litter mates. And 1 was out of JR.'S aunt. They all made tree dogs, i sold the male litter mate, first. He was a little shy, took him 10 days, to make up to me. And if i had kept him, i would probably, have still, been hunting walker dogs. If i didn't take him hunting, he would mumble, mutter, and howl. He would do the same, if i took him hunting, and he would nod, his head up and down. As if to say, see, i know you should have taken me. I should have never, sold him, as he would try, to talk to me.

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J.B.

Hey guys I thought everybody had a right to have there own opinion. It sounds like if someone dont agree then they are definatly wrong. I have seen some good walker dogs and I have seen some bad ones also but I do think that alot of guys are breeding way to much tree in there dogs and not nearly enough track this is only my opinion and I am probably wrong but hey opinions are like #%%&*(@# arent they everyone has one.

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stephen
color is a option a coondog is a must!

scott you are putting words where they dont belong. ove corse so did i. i meant that the ones i hunted with are like what i said. there are some fantastic dogs out of the jr line , like bad habit, cord, harry jr, cutter, abby, and son to name a few. but they are not MY style of dogs. do i own a dog that can copete with these hounds, i hope that he will be ready soon. and as far as going to giddings, i would love to, and will in the very near future. also harold mid jan in new york three feet of snow and 10 below. and have treed coon day and night. but if you insist. well have to set somthing up. if it is truly hadrer then it is here it will be good trainig for my young dog. and any budy that thinks they can tree coon up here in the winter then let me know and well set somthing up.i always enjoy see new faces and good dogs.
i stated my opinion because every body else was. it may not be the most popular but its my opinion. sorry if i pissed any body off.

nailor blood? depends on what it was crossed with. had a great female that was grand pup to nalior and pac man.

Blister1

Actually, I love Sackett Jr. blood. I was just stating the faults I have seen. I will always own Jr blood as long as it is around. You are right about the ukc numbers. They don't mean squat. By percentage though Nite heat threw more titled dogs. I agree with you on everyhting you have to say about this topic except Nailor. I have never seen one worth a bullet. I know they are out there but I just havn't seen em. To me, he has hurt the breed more than anything. I am sorry if I have given the wrong idea to you on how I see what jr has done for coonhunting. Good luck with your hounds. Maybe I will catch you at a hunt or something.

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Lipper is to coonhunting what the Rose bowl is to football, THE GRANDADDY OF THEM ALL!

We sure are a contrary lot. LOL

No biggie Adam, Some of my buddy's don't care for Jr. blood. That's fine by me, I could care less what anybody likes as long as I'm not buying their dogfood!!!Lol!

Let's let ol' Jr. r.i.p.

btt

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Country Boy Can Survive



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