UKC Forums - Joe the plummer looks like he may

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Posted by truly on 11-01-2008 04:40 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by trott
I am just curious as to how these tens of thousands hold down a job and then go home to spend quality time with their family and yet at the same time volunteer for Obama on a daily bases? I am serious about this question, how do they do it? Thanks, Trott.

trott- how much time do you devote to your hounds ? are you still serious about your job and family? not all of them volunteer every day, though some do. in the case of the office that i worked out of yesterday and am going back to today, there are almost 3 million people who live within one hour drive. many hunters drive an hour to hunt , then hunt for a few hours. these people apparently love their country as much as you love your hounds and are willing to "put there money where their mouth is".

but back to my point- anybody else feel strong enough about their candidate to help them out? or just enough to hang out on a website whining and crying? maybe you all need to get involved- find someone locally who you can support- or even someone from a different part of the country that you like- maybe ron paul?maybe ted stevens? maybe trentt lott? and two years from now, rather than spend a week on an annual hunting trip, spend a week trying to make your country a better place.

because most folks on this site seem to think that all of the current politicians are no good- so you may need to find some new ones and support them! cause many of the rest of us are going to- and folks who arent involved wont have a voice. it really is as simple as that.

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Posted by John D on 11-01-2008 05:12 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by truly
joe, you missed a detail here- you dont pay taxes on what you have to pay yourself, you pay taxes on the health care that your employer provides for you. national average is around $12,000 per employee. subtract your 5000 tax credit now you are paying on only $7000. i will use your rate of %27. CONGRATULATIONS YOU HAVE JUST VOTED YOURSELF A $490 DOLLAR TAX INCREASE!

I think you missed a detail or two. Like the facts?

There is NO WAY the national average for health care for working people is $12,000 a year per employee. NO WAY.

It might be $1200 per year. I know I pay around $6,000 for a family of 5.

Some employers pay all or most of their employees health insurance. Some pay l ittle or none. What McCain's plan does is level the playing field. If your employer pays for your health care, then that will be taken into account by that being a taxable just as if it were compensation, which it is. If your employer doesn't pay anything on health care, guess what? You get a $5000 tax credit to use to go buy health insurance....the health insurance YOU want, that works for YOU, for the Doctors and hospitals YOU choose. In my case, thats $5000 into my pocket and I get to choose my own health insurance. This will create competition, which will drive health care to be more efficient and customer friendly.

Osama's plan involves a government bureacracy, dictating which doctors and hospitals you can go to. It will be you, your government assigned bureacrat, and your Doctor. Of course, your Bureacrat might make you change Doctors, to get you to a cheaper one. It might be one thats 2 hours drive away that doesn't speak English but they were the low bidder for your health care and therefore thats where you must go. The health providers won't care about you as much because they are getting paid by the government, on a contract. No competition means lousy service and high cost.

These differences are consistent between McCain/Obama on all issues. Well thought out, easy to nit pick, not very well explained versus fluffy, flowery, poorly thought out plans that the masses can grasp and latch on to.

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Posted by MillsEnglish on 11-01-2008 11:42 PM:

All I know is if making 200k a year is considered middle class I sure would love to be middle class. I must be trailer park trash haha

Posted by liberalcreek on 11-02-2008 01:14 AM:

Isnt it sad, eh, that Obama and the Democrats demonized and tried to destroy as man who had a dream, and asked a question that exposed Obama's real plans for this country and ultimately crippled his campaign??

What kind of person tries to destroy and humiliate a common citizen for ASKING A QUESTION??

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Posted by Rip on 11-02-2008 01:51 AM:

Knox, I didn't call you a communist or a marxist.

I only stated that OPRAMA IS.

You can't deny that because even he doesn't deny it.

He has openly stated that he is for wealth redistribution, which is socialism. He hasn't hidden it and in fact has relished the fact that he is a marxist/socialist. He has openly bragged about all of his marxist associations and how they are his heroes, and was a member of the Socialist party. I am not calling him that, HE is calling HIMSELF that.

Anyone that denies it just refuses to believe anything bad about their "messiah" who is going to "give them the moon" at the expense of other people.

As to the 200 grand middle class, they have already lowered it from 250, to 200, now to 150.

Like I have stated all along it is the classic democratic bait and switch on the taxes, claim to "tax the rich" but when the tax actually comes about it goes all the way down to 25 or 30 grand a year.

Of course it will go down even farther than that cause Oprama himself has admitted that one of the first things he wants to do is increase the taxes on the lower and middle classes (lowes tax bracket) by 39%. This is what happens when you "roll back" the Bush tax cuts because those tax cuts decreased the taxes of the lowest taxpayers by 39%. So right there tells you that his "cut taxes for 95% of Americans" is an outright lie because he has already said he is raising taxes on everybody by rolling back the tax cuts.

Here's a hint, when you raise taxes, that's a tax increase.

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Posted by honalieh on 11-02-2008 05:03 AM:

McCains Health Insurance Plan

At my company, health insurance for a family runs about $15,000 per year.

McCain would tax whatever portion the employer pays as additional income to the employee (from McCains website). You can check it out.

So, if you have employer provided health insurance, you will have $15,000 more in taxable income (if employer pays full load). This will shift a lot of people into higher tax brackets. So, if you are in the 25% tax bracket, you get a $3,750 tax increase under McCain.

To offset this tax increase, McCain offers a $5,000 tax credit. To quote McCains website : "The credit goes to the insurance company that the American family chooses to get coverage from." It DOES NOT go to the taxpayer!!!

I've read details of McCains health plan on his own website. It is designed first and foremost to benefit the health insurance companies. It would ultimately lead to a large scale dismantling of employer provided health coverage. How? It encourages younger workers to bail out of employer provided coverage, and purchase their own insurance with the help of a tax credit to their insurance company. This would leave the group with older workers, those with health problems, and both older and younger women---younger women may have maternity costs. With this type of group, premiums rise significantly. That means even higher taxes on the working people in this group, or more likely, the employer dropping coverage because of prohibitive costs.

So, the insurance companies win. They take the low risk individuals, and access super premiums on others. Corporate America wins, because they will end up divesting themselves of health insurance premiums. Who loses? Working class Americans and their children!

This is an attack on most of working class America, plain and simple!!!

On the plus side, I see no way that a Democratic Congress would allow this to happen!!!

Go to McCains website. Don't just read his little pill capsules. Read the details!!!

If you don't have employer paid health insurance, or you have to pay for your own insurance, McCain's plan works for you! If you have employer provided coverage McCain wants to tax it, and in the not-too-long-term you will possibly lose employer provided coverage altogether!!!

Posted by MikeO on 11-02-2008 05:09 AM:

so vote for the Muslim then and quit crying.

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Posted by daustin on 11-02-2008 07:22 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Nethery
I was going to vote for McCain, that is until I watched the debate, John McCain, has Voted with President Bush 90% of the time, he said this in his own words, he wants to tax my employer provided health care as income, and is looking out for the Fat Cat CEOs and Executives. He will DESTROY THE MIDDLE CLASS AND DRIVE US INTO THE DEEPEST DEPRESSION IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He is not for Joe the Plumber, he is for Joe, the CEO.
Im voting for OBama, and I dont care who dosnt like it.

At least he voted. Someone please explain what a vote of "Present" means? Most of Obama's votes were "Present" What is this grade school?

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Posted by Knox on 11-02-2008 01:09 PM:

Re: McCains Health Insurance Plan

quote:
Originally posted by honalieh
At my company, health insurance for a family runs about $15,000 per year.

McCain would tax whatever portion the employer pays as additional income to the employee (from McCains website). You can check it out.

So, if you have employer provided health insurance, you will have $15,000 more in taxable income (if employer pays full load). This will shift a lot of people into higher tax brackets. So, if you are in the 25% tax bracket, you get a $3,750 tax increase under McCain.

To offset this tax increase, McCain offers a $5,000 tax credit. To quote McCains website : "The credit goes to the insurance company that the American family chooses to get coverage from." It DOES NOT go to the taxpayer!!!

I've read details of McCains health plan on his own website. It is designed first and foremost to benefit the health insurance companies. It would ultimately lead to a large scale dismantling of employer provided health coverage. How? It encourages younger workers to bail out of employer provided coverage, and purchase their own insurance with the help of a tax credit to their insurance company. This would leave the group with older workers, those with health problems, and both older and younger women---younger women may have maternity costs. With this type of group, premiums rise significantly. That means even higher taxes on the working people in this group, or more likely, the employer dropping coverage because of prohibitive costs.

So, the insurance companies win. They take the low risk individuals, and access super premiums on others. Corporate America wins, because they will end up divesting themselves of health insurance premiums. Who loses? Working class Americans and their children!

This is an attack on most of working class America, plain and simple!!!

On the plus side, I see no way that a Democratic Congress would allow this to happen!!!

Go to McCains website. Don't just read his little pill capsules. Read the details!!!

If you don't have employer paid health insurance, or you have to pay for your own insurance, McCain's plan works for you! If you have employer provided coverage McCain wants to tax it, and in the not-too-long-term you will possibly lose employer provided coverage altogether!!!

Thanks for laying out the McBush healthcare plan..............it sounds GREAT doesnt it ?.........LOL...Tim

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Posted by Deepfork on 11-02-2008 02:18 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by OUTFITKNL'S
the man has one vote,in any giving session! joe the plummber is a joke in my book,who can't use glue to stick to pieces of pipe together?

I don't know, Joe handled himself pretty well in this interview.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HYc9tytiLc&NR=1

Posted by Deepfork on 11-02-2008 02:27 PM:

Re: Joe the plummer looks like he may

quote:
Originally posted by factchecker41
Joe looks like he will be the choice of mccain the be sec. of labor. He is on the trail with mccain. Now dont chuckle about this after all he did add palin to his ticket and she knows about as much as joe does. All this together show how off the wall mccain is.

WHO AM I?

I am less than 45 years old. --Palin?

I love to hunt. ---Palin?

I love the outdoors. --Palin?

I have a large family. --Palin?

I have recently been nominated by my party to be the Vice-President, after serving two years as Governor of my state. --Palin?

Who am I?....Teddy Roosevelt-ranked by scholars as one of the greatest U.S. Presidents after

hmmmmm Didn't teddy Roosevelt become President after McKinley was assaniated? The ole "heart beat away" thing is interesting.

Posted by liberalcreek on 11-02-2008 02:45 PM:

Re: McCains Health Insurance Plan

quote:
Originally posted by honalieh
At my company, health insurance for a family runs about $15,000 per year.

Hold your Huskies Honalieh.There is no way that figure can be true.

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Posted by liberalcreek on 11-02-2008 08:27 PM:

Obama promises to bankrupt coal industry

"So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can; it's just that it[Obama's cap and trade plan] will bankrupt them."

He didnt know he was on tape.

http://media.newsbusters.org/storie...t-coal-industry

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Posted by factchecker41 on 11-02-2008 09:23 PM:

liberalcreek,You can belive those number about what it cost for ins. My plan is just over 16,000 and that is not the full cost. I also pay a large part.

Posted by redhunter on 11-02-2008 09:27 PM:

Re: Re: McCains Health Insurance Plan

quote:
Originally posted by liberalcreek
Hold your Huskies Honalieh.There is no way that figure can be true.

I wouldnt raise the BS flag quite so quickly.
My fathers been with the local electrical union for 30 some years. Local 5. He pays about $275 for insurance on a normal 40hr work WEEK. This is deducted out of his wages. Not paid by the employer on his behalf. I just looked at several pay stubs to verify this for myself.
80/20 plan.
$275 x 52 weeks = $14,300 Family of 3.

Myself, I'm a teacher just myself in coverage. I pay about $40 a month, my employer contributes $400.
HMO plan with low co pay
$440 x 12 months = $5280 Family of 1.

I dunno where they got the number of premiums(including what employer contributes) averaging $5000 but I'm not buying. The only way I see that as a possibility is if Your avg. in the millions of people with No coverage ($0.)

Posted by MikeO on 11-02-2008 09:50 PM:

why we all should vote democrat watch this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPG25Wf0aa4[/quote]

Posted by PRNITROJACK on 11-02-2008 10:01 PM:

McCain is the way of the future if you want to keep your guns and your rights.

I like what the Rev. Dr. Phil Kidd said....
"It's a shame Lincoln didn�t go to the theater before the war."

Osamba will be just like Lincoln, he will �CHANGE� his views on all subjects great and small just like Lincoln. In addition, most all the men and one woman who has been president have been this way. They �CHANGE� to mainstream America.
Most of them just like most of the leaders of this country do not have enough guts to make a splat on a windshield.
So I say vote the way you want to, but when you Osamba followers vote yourself into a mess it will be us gun carrying McCain supporters that will have to kill the terrorists off your doorstep.

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Posted by rance56 on 11-02-2008 10:11 PM:

Re: Re: McCains Health Insurance Plan

quote:
Originally posted by Knox
Thanks for laying out the McBush healthcare plan..............it sounds GREAT doesnt it ?.........LOL...Tim

well lets do it like the unions, wether you are single or not you still pay as much as the family of 5. how does that sound?

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Posted by Oak Ridge on 11-02-2008 10:13 PM:

Re: Re: Re: McCains Health Insurance Plan

quote:
Originally posted by redhunter
I wouldnt raise the BS flag quite so quickly.
My fathers been with the local electrical union for 30 some years. Local 5. He pays about $275 for insurance on a normal 40hr work WEEK. This is deducted out of his wages. Not paid by the employer on his behalf. I just looked at several pay stubs to verify this for myself.
80/20 plan.
$275 x 52 weeks = $14,300 Family of 3.

Myself, I'm a teacher just myself in coverage. I pay about $40 a month, my employer contributes $400.
HMO plan with low co pay
$440 x 12 months = $5280 Family of 1.

I dunno where they got the number of premiums(including what employer contributes) averaging $5000 but I'm not buying. The only way I see that as a possibility is if Your avg. in the millions of people with No coverage ($0.)

Oh, I have no doubt that "some" folks do indeed cost 12,000 a year in insurance.....

What I'm saying is that MY insurance is not that expensive. The company I work for has over 125,000 employees, most in the US....it's a large pool of folks, so the cost comes down.

I still don't see where the McCain plan calls for taxing the employer portion of insurance.....someone point it out for me please....I may be stupid....I may be blind...

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Posted by al jackson on 11-02-2008 10:33 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by perry co cooner
Tell me again what exactly Obama's plan is to help middle class citizens?

3 pages and still no answer to this question.theres your answer they dont know.

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Posted by ringtail on 11-02-2008 11:11 PM:

it's not in their talking points.......

and it's not on the obamamainia propaganda sheet......

quote:
Originally posted by al jackson
3 pages and still no answer to this question.theres your answer they dont know.

so they don't have a clue, all they know is obama says free handouts for everyone and thats good enough for the obama zombies.....

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Posted by liberalcreek on 11-03-2008 12:05 AM:

Re: Re: Re: McCains Health Insurance Plan

quote:
Originally posted by redhunter
I wouldnt raise the BS flag quite so quickly.
My fathers been with the local electrical union for 30 some years. Local 5. He pays about $275 for insurance on a normal 40hr work WEEK. This is deducted out of his wages. Not paid by the employer on his behalf. I just looked at several pay stubs to verify this for myself.
80/20 plan.
$275 x 52 weeks = $14,300 Family of 3.

Myself, I'm a teacher just myself in coverage. I pay about $40 a month, my employer contributes $400.
HMO plan with low co pay
$440 x 12 months = $5280 Family of 1.

I dunno where they got the number of premiums(including what employer contributes) averaging $5000 but I'm not buying. The only way I see that as a possibility is if Your avg. in the millions of people with No coverage ($0.)

Unions eh??
Non-Union here, I pay for a family of 5. The best insurance there is according to the stats of American owned companies. No co-pays, nothing. I havent paid a penny out of my pocket for ANYTHING in 12 years.

My insurance is $72 dollars a week. That is for a family of 5 medical, dental, eye, EVERYTHING.

You guys aregetitng screwed. eh.

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Posted by robbie2565 on 11-03-2008 12:05 AM:

i didnt really read everyone's post because I was getting kind of sick of the back and forth b.s. I'm not saying who I am for because i'm not a 100% sure who would be better. However, I do want to know where at and when anyone on this board has heard either one of the candidates mention guns or hunting rights and privelidges during this campaign.

Posted by Knox on 11-03-2008 12:08 AM:

Re: it's not in their talking points.......

quote:
Originally posted by ringtail
and it's not on the obamamainia propaganda sheet...... so they don't have a clue, all they know is obama says free handouts for everyone and thats good enough for the obama zombies.....

I havent heard him say one word about free hand-outs, and I dont know of anyone that wants one.

If you watched some of his speeches you would know the answer, several on here have explained it..........some of you guys are blinded by McBush and you just cant understand the reality of America needing a CHANGE, for the good of ALL Americans, regardless of color, sex, religion................Tim

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Posted by liberalcreek on 11-03-2008 12:09 AM:

According to Obama's own site...

If you make $30,000 a year, file as head of household and have 2 dependents you will pay MORE under his plan to the tune of $180/yr.

If you make $40,000 you will pay $450 MORE in taxes a year

If you make $50,000-$75,000/year you will pay basically the same as McCains' plan.

If you make $100,000 you will save $300

If you make $150,000+ you will get no tax cut of any kind.

If you make $200,000+ you will get not tax break of any kind.

The facts dont lie. This is from obama's own website.

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