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-- Elimination style for the nationals (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=160416)

quote:

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Originally posted by Todd M / UKC
I say when 51% of the club events (more than half) each year are elim events, we will look at the Nationals changing.

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Jack I understand what your saying. But dont I have the same odds if I come to your hunt? I dont get to choose my casts. Its the same rules that the nationals have. If your guiding you get to control where you go. Remember without these same people you have NO hunt. If that gives them an advantage then so be it. I feel its the same as when I travel to the Black Gold events, I have the luck of the draw as to if I get in a honey hole. Believe me there alot more at stake at these hunts than Nationals. (prize package and advertisement)

What's wrong with 3 day hunts, to achieve, what we set out to do. Hey all I'm saying, is people would come if it was 3 or 4. I think more would be satisfied with traveling a long distance, and they do, if they had a better chance of going back out after the first round. We all have been in the casts where one dog ruins it for the rest, but the cast winner still scored a 100 points or so. In this case the best dog would go on and have a chance. Remember, unlike the zone run-offs, where its now some-what like the first round of the world hunt, you don't have that problem, those type of dogs, for the most part are already eliminated. I do think that we need to run more elimination style hunts at the local level, but they rarely do, exceptions, to west lafayette, ohio. Run them, one hour and then go back out until you have a winner, if the ones that complain about, they won't come anyway. Correct me if I'm wrong, But isn't the McVay Memorial hunt a eliminator style hunt. If so, this is probably, or close to becoming the 4th major hunt of the year, for entries. Huh, 3 of the 4 largest hunts are eliminator style, whats that tell ya. for what its worth........

i think most of us really should'nt complain if we are'nt helping put on hunts. but i do understand that there is know way that 10 or more casts come back with 1000 or more plus points in one event when you only see maybe 2-3 all year at other hunts. plain and simple We all or i should say most of us change the way we judge at the nationals only because we know we have to have high point. i guided 2 casts this year didnt judge either one but in both of them holes were called when there was maybe a loss or lines were scored when the rabbit ran 100 ft. is it wrong sure but when everybody knows that atleast half of the other casts are being judged that way we feel we are cheating our dogs by not going along with the majority. a few years ago i was in 1st round champion cast with the dog that won the nationals. i minused out and 2 dogs were left it was obvious who was going to win and in the last 15 min of the hunt the judge got 400 more points by seeing a rabbit and calling a hole before 3 min were up only because he knew he did'nt have enough points to go to 2nd round. he won the nationals by cheating. and as far as guys getting dry holed sure they might not get sent to a dry hole but why when you are running rabbits at a spot and you have plenty of area to run would the guide that is winning want to move spots? i have had it done to me and personaly heard some very well known people say that they have been winning and moved to another area were there are no rabbits, if thats not getting dry holed what is.

a change no

most of you seem to be on crack

if you want complete elimination style then go to the Eliminator or the Worlds.

Ive been with UKC since the very beginning

if UKC changed the current format for nationals to much more then what would be the difference of having the Eliminator or the World hunts, they would all be the same thing.

if UKC changed to this then they might as well go back to only
1 big hunt for the year

honey hole doesnt matter after the first rabbit, its even and Ill still beat you .

like I tell others find your own spot then put yourself down to guide then draw out the guides out of a hat .

BDB

BDB,

Just wondering if you have ever guided a cast at nationals?

-Jack

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I'll answer that Jack..... YES he offers to guide EVERY YEAR and he's from PA. Just goes to show what alittle driving and searching will do while your here. Everyone wants to come down, sit on their a$$ and BS, then when they don't score 1000+ go home and bitch about it , instead of going out and finding a good spot, someone on here mentioned there was thousands of acres of state land within a 1 hour drive of holmesville and there is, had a guy go pleasure hunting last year and told me they scored over 900+ on state but would he guide? NO. But atleast hes not on here complaining. And BDB is right the Nationals have never been elimination style ( I hope they never are ) Thats why its called the NATIONALS and NOT the ELIMINATER. Sure it could be done but does ANYONE WANT A JOB????? Not trying to be rude or sarcastic but if you don't like the format DON'T come it makes OUR job alot easier. Huh DAVE ???

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Scott,

I didn't start this post, didn't come up with the idea that i'm for (putting winners into a hat), and i'm not pushing for an elimination style hunt... But most of all, i'm not a one man army either.... If you look 45 out of 57 voters say they'd like to see something done. So take a pill.... THIS IS A PUBLIC FORUM WHERE PEOPLE COME TO DISCUSS AND SHARE IDEAS HOW TO BETTER UKC. No one is bashing you for a job well done. WE are just saying the current system isn't fair accross the board. Anyone having a local spot clearing has an advantage... Thats a fact.

The math... (Lets say there are 300 dogs and 35 known better spots)

Thats 75 cast (35 known better and 40 that probably doesn't have a chance)

*NOTE Know that i understand how hard it is to line up places, by simply giving all 1st round winners the same chance you'd eliminate the need for the highest score thus increasing the amounts of spots possible local (places that you could plus on a few rabbits but never enough to compete across the board)

Now with 40 not having a chance you've already doomed 160 dogs to at best a nice hat... Thats why i'm saying you can't compare two dogs that win running two different areas. There is alot to overcome sometimes. Heck last year we had a woman come out trying to hit and kick our dogs right in the middle of a chase. She completely blew up the track. How is it fair to say that the dog that won our cast was any less deserving then any other? Heck it had to overcome the scariest woman i've ever seen in my life...

However, Scott... Your chances of drawing one of the 35 spots is 100% mine is at best 46%. For anyone who is an out of town judge that doesn't have a spot their chance of drawing one of the lessor spots is pretty high.

Understand i'm not complaining about points scored, i'm saying its "Its Nationals, not all spots are even, everyone doesn't have the same chance of moving on, so lets do something (since elimination isn't a choice) to make sure each cast winner coming back truely has the same chance of going on".

How many spots do you use each year that have never produced a second rounder? Imagine how many more you could find closer to home if people didn't have to compete for highest score.

I'm done with this post, no use beating dead horse (no matter how bad it needs it). Basically as Scott says "Not trying to be rude or sarcastic but if you don't like the format DON'T come it makes OUR job alot easier".

Its just Nationals, who cares if everyone doesn't have the same fair chance of moving on....

Peace Out
-Jack

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Like I said, when 51% of the local club hunts are Elimination Style we will look ad changing the nationals. Only then! Thread locked.

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