UKC Forums - dogs who have titles versus dogs who don't

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-- dogs who have titles versus dogs who don't (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=156738)

Posted by aw52 on 12-08-2011 07:44 PM:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by goodtimekennel
[B]most of you are full of crap
first off if a dog has a title it means some one liked the dog took him to town spent his money and his time in hunting the dog getting him ready for the hunts,
and for those of you who think you need a babbling fool to win your dead wrong, just shows me you all dont no what comp hunting is about,
give me an honest strike and a dog that likes to be by itself and is accurate and a pressure tree dog and i will show you a winner, no pissin on tires just go get treed with the meat,

if you want to win you have to invest time gas money
i can tell you i dont no of any wonder dogs or have ever in my 30 yrs of hunting known of any behind the barn pleasure dogs that were worth a crap, i have heard lots of bragging but when you go out with them they wont even leave your lite
i have a dog that is 4yrs. old and only been in 2or3 cast. he kicks dirt in your face alone or w/company and is a COONDOG, he isnt titled. he's not behind the barn,but he's in my backyard. bring what you have and let's go coonhunting merle.

Posted by hillbilly56 on 12-08-2011 07:57 PM:

Re: Re: well said

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
LOL most people that make this kind of statement have never had any dog ever do any winning in the hunts so they just try to downgrade all dogs that can.

I can assure you most top competition dogs will smoke your average "coon" dog on a nightly basis.

hoosierman im sorry to tell you i really know the differnce in a compiteon dog and a pleasure dog i never did do the hunts dont want no high dollar comp dogs ive hunted with alot of tiltled dogs that my no account out behind the barn dogs was just as good or better i hunted with my granpap when i was a little fellow when he passed i started keeping my own dogs at 12 yrs old im 62 yrs old havent had hounds last couple yrs due to my health so if my math is right ive had hounds for 48 yrs so i think i know alittle about the subject just because a dog has titles does not make it a realcoon dog or a reproducer not trying to start a war just stateing a fact

Posted by john Duemmer on 12-08-2011 08:05 PM:

Win or loose i most always have fun at the hunts i attend and i think the key is not to go expecting the best coondog to win. I enjoy meeting other hunters and seeing other dogs go.

The beginning of the end was when the hunts shrunk from 3 hours to 2 and now theres talk of 1 hour hunts so the coondog in the cast will win even less often.

A few adjustments to the rules would help. A tree countdown would help, Akc.s strike rule for the first minute is a good system to prevent the bablers from strikeing off the leash, and a lot more honesty on circling slicks just because the leaves are on would go a long ways toward getting back to rewarding the coondog in the cast.

TRY THIS keep track for the next ten hunts you attend and at the end of the night ask yourself if i could own any dog in the cast which one would it be. Betchya it wont be the cast winner very often if your a coonhunter.

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Posted by groworg1 on 12-08-2011 08:56 PM:

ya and not giving out places or points for dogs with plus points a dog that has plus points is a coondog and receives no credit for being one in todays world so a guy with a good coondog has no reason to come if he did get a few points toward nite champ everytime he had plus points he would keep comming back looking for that elusive first place win and hunts would grow again the system is broke the way it is! another thing that would help is take points earned by number of casts in a hunt 1 cast 5 points 2 cast 10 points ect. must have a first place with 20+ dogs for nt.ch degree we can do better if we try

Posted by englishheat298 on 12-08-2011 10:57 PM:

Some hounds earn there titles and some hounds dont...You have your honests guys and your lying guys...I can name a dozen in my area that i wouldn't feed but that pencil got sharped! I've had them tell me your hounds not a competition hound but hey my hound isnt going to grab 10 trees a night and score one coon! alot of COONDOGS dont get the credit they really deserve. Alot of guys don't competition hunt cause of all the crap they have to go through cheating and arguing so IMO some titled dogs are legit and some aren't! But i do know some REALLY nice pleasure hounds that i have offered to handle for. Title means nothing to some!

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Posted by aw52 on 12-09-2011 12:55 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jason Mullins
a coondog is a coondog regardless whether its pleasure hunted or competition hunted if it suits the person feeding it is all that matters

RIGHT ON JASON !!!

Posted by aw52 on 12-09-2011 01:01 AM:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by goodtimekennel
[B]most of you are full of crap
first off if a dog has a title it means some one liked the dog took him to town spent his money and his time in hunting the dog getting him ready for the hunts,
and for those of you who think you need a babbling fool to win your dead wrong, just shows me you all dont no what comp hunting is about,
give me an honest strike and a dog that likes to be by itself and is accurate and a pressure tree dog and i will show you a winner, no pissin on tires just go get treed with the meat,

if you want to win you have to invest time gas money
i can tell you i dont no of any wonder dogs or have ever in my 30 yrs of hunting known of any behind the barn pleasure dogs that were worth a crap, i have heard lots of bragging but when you go out with them they wont even leave your lite
i've spent alot of time on the highway going vto these hunts in the past 45 years. i know what it takes to win the big ones.i put my dog thru a program, him/her and i in the timber. it cost me about $100 aweek just gettin mine ready.

Posted by aw52 on 12-09-2011 01:04 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
So by minusing dens lets say your dog gets a first and a first twice. You have 450 plus. Now your dog gets a first and a first on 2 dens. Do you win the cast?

no, you go to the house !!!

Posted by Jason Baldwin on 12-09-2011 06:23 AM:

this whole thread reminds me of some of mine and Jim and Elvis's discussions from 10 years ago on here. LOL ahhhhhhhhh good ole memorys. LOL

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 12-09-2011 12:50 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by aw52
no, you go to the house !!!

How long do you think the hunts would be around doing it like this? the hunts are hurting bad enough as it is.

Posted by CSnowgren on 12-09-2011 01:15 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
How long do you think the hunts would be around doing it like this? the hunts are hurting bad enough as it is.

There is no surprise. Pleasure hunting has been around long before comp hunts and will be around long after. Comp hunts were a good idea when the intent was for the best dog to win. Now they can be more of a hustle. Claiming they are a "sport" is ridiculous. The success or failure of comp hunting is directly in the hands of those that do and promote it. Continuing to promote a riff between pleasure and comp hunters by insinuating one style of dog is better than another certainly is not the answer. Divide and conquer goes back to the beginning of time and is pretty basic stuff.

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Posted by Slough on 12-09-2011 01:20 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
All you have to do to turn your pleasure dog into a comp dog is enter it!
All you have to do to make a comp dog into a pleasure dog is take it hunting with your buddies.
This whole discussion us amusing. The dogs don't know the diff and don't care. They are the same dogs.

Hit the nail on the head with your eyes closed.. Very well put!

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Posted by Matt McKinney on 12-09-2011 01:38 PM:

Re: Re: well said

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
LOL most people that make this kind of statement have never had any dog ever do any winning in the hunts so they just try to downgrade all dogs that can.

I can assure you most top competition dogs will smoke your average "coon" dog on a nightly basis.

LOL..I have hunted with dogs that have won over 50k in pkc, and also with a dog that has placed in the final four of the world hunt. And none of them have ever "smoked" my dog. They go tree coons, and my dog trees coons, and we all leave the woods happy. I have been to a competition hunt, and did not win, but im always afraid to loose my dog. She gets deep in a hurry, usually out of hearing range,and will go anywhere she needs to go, and I have to drive to her, but when i get there, she is under a coon. Her biggest fault is she will not quit a bad ice cold track, and sometimes she gets on tracks that most dogs cant do anything with, she will end up treeing them, but sometimes it takes her a while.

Posted by Matt McKinney on 12-09-2011 01:40 PM:

Re: Re: Re: well said

quote:
Originally posted by Matt McKinney
LOL..I have hunted with dogs that have won over 50k in pkc, and also with a dog that has placed in the final four of the world hunt. And none of them have ever "smoked" my dog. They go tree coons, and my dog trees coons, and we all leave the woods happy. I have been to a competition hunt, and did not win, but im always afraid to loose my dog. She gets deep in a hurry, usually out of hearing range,and will go anywhere she needs to go, and I have to drive to her, but when i get there, she is under a coon. Her biggest fault is she will not quit a bad ice cold track, and sometimes she gets on tracks that most dogs cant do anything with, she will end up treeing them, but sometimes it takes her a while.She is a good all around dog, that is very accurate, and has the ability to win, but she is not what most people would want for a comp hound and I dont have a problem with that.

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 12-09-2011 01:41 PM:

Re: Re: Re: well said

quote:
Originally posted by Matt McKinney
LOL..I have hunted with dogs that have won over 50k in pkc, and also with a dog that has placed in the final four of the world hunt. And none of them have ever "smoked" my dog. They go tree coons, and my dog trees coons, and we all leave the woods happy. I have been to a competition hunt, and did not win, but im always afraid to loose my dog. She gets deep in a hurry, usually out of hearing range,and will go anywhere she needs to go, and I have to drive to her, but when i get there, she is under a coon. Her biggest fault is she will not quit a bad ice cold track, and sometimes she gets on tracks that most dogs cant do anything with, she will end up treeing them, but sometimes it takes her a while.

There are exceptions to every rule. As a whole your average pleasure dog will get smoked by your average compeition dog. It it what it is simply because competition hunters take coon hunting and coon treeing more serious!

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 12-09-2011 01:43 PM:

Matt, how many pleasure hunters do you know of that hunt hard all summer long? 2 to 5 nights a week? i don't know of any.

Posted by Matt McKinney on 12-09-2011 01:50 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
Matt, how many pleasure hunters do you know of that hunt hard all summer long? 2 to 5 nights a week? i don't know of any.

Actually all of my friends except one, and thats because he is lazy.LOL...he only hunts one night a week in season then complains if his dog goes over 500 yards..LOL...But all my friends that love hunting all hunt at least 3 nights a week, and none of them comp hunt except one. And he is a big time comp hunter, I wont mention his name just cause i dont want to drag him into this, but I garuantee you know him or heard of him. Even though I dont comp hunt, I do consider myself a coon hunter, and I am in the woods at least 4 nights a week, it helps that i have about 2000 acres of woods a stones throw away from my back door. If I had to drive 30 minutes to a woods, I cant say i would hunt as much as I do..But I dont hunt all night like some guys do, i have a wife , kids, and a 50 hr a week job..I enjoy going and making a drop or 2, hunting for an hour or 2 and going home on a good note.

Posted by marcel b&t on 12-09-2011 02:35 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
Matt, how many pleasure hunters do you know of that hunt hard all summer long? 2 to 5 nights a week? i don't know of any.

I do and do damage control for about 40 farms in four different countys. I hunt allmost every single night, I take hunting just as serious as any comp Hunter. And I hunt bob cats as well. I don't just hunt hide season. I'm out all winter to every night, and a lot of days to. Chaseing bob cats takes a very special hound to. Cats jump six feet off the ground most of the time before they touch the tree. Titles and paper don't catch game, but help keep record for breeding. Jmo...

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Posted by Cory Highfill on 12-09-2011 02:47 PM:

Titles don't make the dog, but most of the REAL good dogs I've seen had or eventually got titles.

I like how everybody seems to downgrade the accomplishments of the "competition dogs", but they're quick to advertise what winning stud 'ol behind the barn Bob is out of when they decide to sell him.
If titles don't prove anything, try advertising an "All PR" litter for $500 a pup and see how fast you get laughed off the board...

Posted by max destruction on 12-09-2011 03:08 PM:

I plesure hunt 3-5 nites a week and go to nite hunts 1-3 nites a week when i can,Are my dogs plesure,hide dogs or comp dogs?

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Posted by Matt McKinney on 12-09-2011 03:13 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Cory Highfill
Titles don't make the dog, but most of the REAL good dogs I've seen had or eventually got titles.

I like how everybody seems to downgrade the accomplishments of the "competition dogs", but they're quick to advertise what winning stud 'ol behind the barn Bob is out of when they decide to sell him.
If titles don't prove anything, try advertising an "All PR" litter for $500 a pup and see how fast you get laughed off the board...

I wouldnt pay 500 for an all grand nite pup out of the world champ. A pup is a pup, it eats, plays, and poops just like any other pup. Wether its gonna make something or not is a gamble. I dont go to the casino and lay 500 on the black jack table, and I wouldnt lay 500 on a pup just because of what dogs in his ped have done. I would however, pay good money for a nice hound that trees coon, titled or not titled. I have 2 pups at my house. 1 is sackett bred both parents are titled and most dogs in the ped are titled. I also have a pup at my house off a non titled 14 yr old heavy finley river male ,and a non titled heavy finley river female that is a COONDOG neither parent is titled. There are a handfull of titles in the ped though. Both pups are the same age..Guess what one acts like he is gonna make a good hound?

Posted by Cory Highfill on 12-09-2011 03:27 PM:

I'm not saying pups out of dogs that have won should or shouldn't sell for $500 a pop. I'm saying that they do all the time. I'm not saying the no title specials don't make coondogs. They can. I'm just saying that the 'PR' dog of today is comparable to the grade dog of yesteryear, and the double standard imposed by lots of anti-competition folks cracks me up.
Today its "Papers and titles don't tree coon!"
Tomorrow it's "For sale: Pups out of Dual Grand ..... X "PR" Behind the Barn Betty"

Posted by Steve Raleigh on 12-09-2011 03:28 PM:

Re: Re: Re: well said

quote:
Originally posted by Matt McKinney
LOL..I have hunted with dogs that have won over 50k in pkc, and also with a dog that has placed in the final four of the world hunt. And none of them have ever "smoked" my dog. They go tree coons, and my dog trees coons, and we all leave the woods happy. I have been to a competition hunt, and did not win, but im always afraid to loose my dog. She gets deep in a hurry, usually out of hearing range,and will go anywhere she needs to go, and I have to drive to her, but when i get there, she is under a coon. Her biggest fault is she will not quit a bad ice cold track, and sometimes she gets on tracks that most dogs cant do anything with, she will end up treeing them, but sometimes it takes her a while.

You dont comp. hunt your dog bc she hunts too deep!?
Also, why does she need to quit the "bad ice cold track" if she trees the coon?

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Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 12-09-2011 03:31 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: well said

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Raleigh
You dont comp. hunt your dog bc she hunts too deep!?
Also, why does she need to quit the "bad ice cold track" if she trees the coon?

h said she takes to long.

Posted by Steve Raleigh on 12-09-2011 03:37 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: well said

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
h said she takes to long.

What is the acceptable amount of time a dog is allowed to run a bad ice cold track before treeing it?

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