UKC Forums - UKC Performance Sire half walker/half english?????

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-- UKC Performance Sire half walker/half english????? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=132416)

Posted by JosephCooper on 07-23-2011 04:44 PM:

check out N Williams thread all grand cross breds and you can read my posts on why out crossing is important and if you are cross breeding it should be a cross worth making to help the bred

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HLK's Hooch's Tramp (CH GRNTCH CUTTER'S RED HOOCH/NITECH CH GARDNER'S BUCKSHOT SAL)

Posted by branchvillekell on 07-23-2011 05:10 PM:

Re: 1/2 breeds

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Anderson
Are 1/2 breeds,and should be listed as 1/2 breeds.And should not be bred back into the breed they are single registered in.Why seperate the breeds if you're gonna crossbreed everything? No need for papers if the dogs are mixed.Crossbreeds bred to whatever produce crossbreeds.

no offense to you sir, you have a BLUE ENGLISH. that didnt come from just being an english.
the english is the only breed that has no limit on color therefore, you can breed out whenever you darn well feel like the wind is in your favor.
DNA testing is a favor to all, but, have you researched the former background of your dog??? my dog has bluetick and walker back in the day.
we all want the english to excel, but they got there for a reason.
maybe, we should have a color standard like everyone else. that might cure the problem.
no more 1/2 breeds i guess.
what do you think?
the blue or tri colored english would exist no more.
or would that open up another can of worms???
i do believe we need a more specific breed standard for english. but how are you going to get it now???
they have always been a motley crue of others and have been the backbone of others.
if it has ticking, label it an english.

and if you can breed a REPRODUCING COONHOUND THAT IS ABOVE AND BEYOND, from a 1/2 breed, more power to you.
coonhound to coonhound does not constitute a 1/2 breed. especially when the breed standards are so loose with the english.

i love to hunt coons and i want that dog by my side that can.

kelley

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CAN YOU SPEAK ENGLISH

Posted by Alan Anderson on 07-23-2011 05:37 PM:

I sure do.

He's English also.Not 1/2 registered as English.All I've caught is he-- over him being blue too.English people down grade the blues,won't breed to a blue and cull all blue pups.Then breed to a walker and call it English because it has ticks.Loose ain't the word for the breed standard for English.

My dog may have walker or bluetick in him,BUT,it was not put in there after the breeds split.At 1st all of them were English,then split.WHY? I'm just saying call a 1/2 breed what it is.As for blues and tri's not existing-they'd be reg.as walkers or blueticks.Same difference ain't it?

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Posted by Nat Thomas on 07-23-2011 06:08 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by neal-williams
One walker dog was done this way and his name was???????????????????? I think a little dog named houses lipper !

It was hardtime speck. In 15 more years lipper will have walked on the moon and killed bin laden

Posted by JosephCooper on 07-23-2011 08:51 PM:

i see the blue and tri colors gaining in popularity Hooch looks english minus a few extra ticks but look at it this way the English bred is to close just like todays AQHA same dogs showing up a # off times top and bottom in three & four gen peds the genes are to tight but if you out cross one time to a reproducing hound like Cutter or Speck then bred back to the English by the 3rd 4TH gen your back to full English it helps improve the bred. if you didnt know my pups were out of a cross bred hound Hooch and i was to take you to the woods with my young hounds you would be impressed and may say i had nice English pups and you wouldnt have known they were 1/4 walker thats the point most people wont bred to Hooch on that point alone his pups look English cause there 3/4 English and the guys who have bred and raised pups from him see the results you cant find Hooch dogs for sale unless someone just has to let em go their showing up all over the winners circle my two are 9mos old treed their first coon by them self at 4mos old i get calls once or twice a month from someone wanting to by them im proud to say i got in on this fine hound when i did cause people are coming around to the way his pups are wining and how their offspring are reproducing as well

Posted by Alan Anderson on 07-23-2011 10:26 PM:

josephcooper

Why breed to a walker? If every dog on a pedigree is Briar Creek,outcross on say Main Street blood,or whatever.Not a walker and call them English,they're 1/2 breeds.

Were any of Hooch's mates single registered walker? Why not? I've seen pups off him that looked full walker,can they be single registered as both? Why not?

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Posted by JosephCooper on 07-23-2011 11:07 PM:

Mr Wilcher Chooses to breed to English and when i choose to breed mine thier offspring will only be an 1/8 then by the next gen almost none at all as for looking like a walker iv seen English that come from about every cross that looks walker the only way not to have that is to make the English breed RED TICK ONLY for witch any blue or tri would be reg blue tick or walker from that point on witch means your blue dog would not be English hum so then if you raised a litter from that point and their were tri or reds would they then need to be single reg as half breeds??? the good thing is no one has to breed to a cross breed if they dont want to but no one should complain when they get beat by one in the hunts i my self dont really care for walkers and i dont think cross breeding is some thing that should be done often but when its done right it works and if you know the English breed history almost every top stud today came from a out cross at some time in the past..........Joseph Cooper

Posted by Chris Dillard on 07-24-2011 01:08 AM:

WHY BREED TO A WALKER?

TO BRING THAT ENGLISH BLOOD BACK HOME!!! BREED FOR COONDOGS, NOT A CERTAIN COLOR OF HOUND. I BREED FOR ABILITY NOT A CERTAIN COLOR. UKC SAYS MY SINGLE REGISTERED HOUND IS FULL BLOODED ENGLISH!!! BESIDES HE'S THE BEST I HAVE WALKED BEHIND IN 25 YEARS!!!

---------------------------GRCH WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' TRI COLOR TOM TOM
---------------------GRNITECH 'PR' REYNOLDS & PETTYJOHN T-COLOR JACK
---------------------------NITECH GRCH 'PR' SHELLSTONE SLIPPER
--------------NITECH 'PR' MEHERG'S TREEING HAWK
---------------------------NITECH KELLEY'S JACK
---------------------SMOKEY MOUNTAIN MIDGET
---------------------------BURCHETTS BEAR CREEK BETTY NO. 1
--------GRCH NITECH 'PR' TIBB CREEK DOC
---------------------------GRNITECH 'PR' YADKIN TAR RATTLER
---------------------GRNITECH 'PR' NOCTURNAL NAILOR
---------------------------GRNITECH GRCH 'PR' LOCKDOWN LASSIE
--------------CH 'PR' MEHERGS HOLY TERA
---------------------------'PR' MOTOR'S HITMAN
---------------------NITECH 'PR' WOOD'S LITTLE JESS
---------------------------CH GRNITECH 'PR' CROW'S JESSIE

WCH NITECH GRCH DILLARD'S WHITE OAK PRIDE

--------------------------GRNITECH BRIAR CREEK BUSH HOG
----------------------GRNITECH 'PR' BRIAR CREEK SNAKE
--------------------------GRNITECH BRIAR CREEK SANDY II
--------------GRNITECH 'PR' BECK'S PITHOLE CREEK HUCK A BUCK
--------------------------GRNITECH NEUSE RIVER RAMBO
----------------------GRNITECH 'PR' CABIN CREEK PUKIN
--------------------------GRNITECH MATHIS HARDTIME KATE
--------NITECH GRCH 'PR' DILLARD'S WHITE OAK FROSTY
--------------------------GRNITECH TIMBERSTAR BUCK
----------------------GRNITECH GRCH 'PR' PINE KNOB DURANGO
--------------------------GRNITECH RAFFLE'S BILLIE JOE
--------------GRNITECH GRCH 'PR' NORTHRIDGE TIMBER VALLEY QUEEN
--------------------------GRNITECH WILCOX THUNDER BINGO
----------------------GRNITECH GRCH 'PR' TIMBER VALLEY LUCKY
--------------------------GRNITECH BLUE MAGIC GOLD

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Posted by Barry Franklin on 07-24-2011 01:58 AM:

Cross Breeding

It seems to me that everyone is trying to corner the Market for the Dollar!!!!!!!! I'm just trying to better the breed, is a Quote you see often, when in reality, what is mean't is, " I'm going to make this cross ,if it work's Great, if it does'nt i'll still get my 200, 300, 400 800, 1500 or whatever. If you own a hound today it is a product of cross breeding somewhere along the line!!!!!!!! Study the history of Coonhounds, Black and Tans to Leopards no breed is exempt. Prior to the 80"s there were more grade dogs than Reg. until Registries figured out there was a Dollar in Reg. dogs. In the 80"s The Redtick guys tried to seperate the Redticks from the Eng. breed to form their own breed. Don't take my word for anything, study history for yourself!! As for myself, I don't see anything wrong with cross breeding. The Eng. Breed has been greatly improved by it, Proof, Boyds Little Joe, Hardtime Speck and Jr. II. Single Registration has also helped. Color is O.K., but ability is better!!!!!!!

Posted by JosephCooper on 07-24-2011 02:04 AM:

Iv got a nice little BLK/WHITE gyp bred alot like your pride dog both sides Walker and English and i feel she will produce well with any English stud i put over her i do like that ped on him nice hound........Joseph Cooper

Posted by Chris Dillard on 07-24-2011 03:48 AM:

Joseph

Good luck with your gyp!! If you think about it post some pics of her.

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Posted by mocatman on 07-24-2011 04:04 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by JosephCooper
Just look at how far that cross breed hound has made it today top 5 reproducer if more people would just bred their females to him based on what he produces in stead of not for how he is reg. theirs know telling how high he would be right now sounds like some of them boys a few years ago shouldnt have missed the boat on this hound im proud to say i own two very fine Hooch dogs.............Joseph Cooper

amen to that!

Posted by Alan Anderson on 07-24-2011 01:40 PM:

Chris

Please explain how he's full blooded English.His sire is a walker,dam is English.How does the walker blood bring the English blood home.I'm totally confused.

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Posted by Chris Dillard on 07-24-2011 04:18 PM:

Alan

The United Kennel Club and the United English Breeders & Fanciers Association are the two governing bodies that allowed the Treeing Walker and Bluetick to seperate from our English in the late 1940's. The English Association was smart enough to put a clause in the agreement to allow these hounds offspring to be single reg. back into the fold if someone desired too, because after all they are all just English hounds regardless of being called Treeing Walker or Bluetick. This is well documented. Hope this helps.

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Posted by JosephCooper on 07-24-2011 05:13 PM:

got to love a good history lesson..........Joseph Cooper

Posted by Chris Dillard on 07-26-2011 07:54 PM:

lets see some more single reg. English pics

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Posted by JosephCooper on 07-26-2011 08:52 PM:

im getting a single reg gyp from N Williams when his gyp comes in next spring they decided not to bred her this time cause their trying to make it to world this year bred to X it will be a all grand ped im looking forward to the cross

Posted by Chris Dillard on 07-26-2011 10:41 PM:

Joseph

Ole X and Sassy are sure enough coondogs!! Triple X is my Pride dogs uncle. Nick is a good guy, we do quite a bit of hunting together.

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Posted by JosephCooper on 07-27-2011 05:17 AM:

yes sir he is id like to hunt with him and those fine hounds but the miles between are to far maybe i can hunt with them next year i my come pick that pup up so i can hit the woods and enjoy some BAMA coon hunting and maybe take a look at your fine hounds as well?

Posted by Chris Dillard on 07-27-2011 10:48 PM:

Joseph

I'd like to hunt with some hounds off Hooch, if you get to come down I'll guide you on the hard running Bama coon!!

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Posted by JosephCooper on 07-28-2011 05:24 AM:

i think you will really like em iv had fast starting hound pups before but these 9mo olds are really cranking all they need are some more coons on em and to learn to check there trees cause once they tree they stick but i know that comes with time and experiance i forget how young they are some times cause of how well they do slick trees are apart of learning i guess

Posted by mocatman on 08-01-2011 07:16 PM:

Re: I sure do.

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Anderson
He's English also.Not 1/2 registered as English.All I've caught is he-- over him being blue too.English people down grade the blues,won't breed to a blue and cull all blue pups.Then breed to a walker and call it English because it has ticks.Loose ain't the word for the breed standard for English.

My dog may have walker or bluetick in him,BUT,it was not put in there after the breeds split.At 1st all of them were English,then split.WHY? I'm just saying call a 1/2 breed what it is.As for blues and tri's not existing-they'd be reg.as walkers or blueticks.Same difference ain't it?

let's see a pedigree of that blue monster so we can see just how many walkers and blueticks he does have in him. remember we are going back to the mid 40's, that is when the breeds split. are you sure he is "pure" english all the way back to the 40's? post a pedigree and i will be glad to do the research for you. i'm sure he is probably a great hound. aren't you interested to see what is in him that makes him so great, or are you afraid there will be a walker or bluetick in there? let's see that pedigree!

question: were you trying to name him Zeus? like the greek god. it is spelled ZEUS, not zues. too bad, ukc won't let you change it now that he has titles.

Posted by mocatman on 08-01-2011 07:19 PM:

now, you're sure there is not even one single registered dog anywhere in his pedigree? all the way back to the 40's? let's see that pedigree!

Posted by Alan Anderson on 08-02-2011 10:18 AM:

mocatman

CH GRNTCH PR Selby's Smooth Talking Jed
NTCH GRCH PR Roper Hills Smooth Cotton
NTCH PR Dark Shadow Fire Bug

GRNTCH PR Creek Bottom High Bawl/sire

GRNTCH PR Beck's Pithole Creek Huck A Buck
CH NTCH PR Roper Hills Midnite Jenny
GRNTCH PR Sowards Midnight Lady

GRWCH GRFCH NTCH GRCH PR Anderson's Screamin Blue Zues/sire

CH GRNTCH Hard Time Preacher
GRCH GRNTCH Southeasterns Lost River Stoney
CH GRNTCH Southeasterns Little Miss Ann

PR Anderson's Tree Timin Lady Katy/dam

CH GRNTCH PR Gambles Hillbilly Mike
NTCH GRCH PR Cahaba River Meg II
GRNTCH GRCH PR Cahaba River Meg

Check away.Don't care what you find in his pedigree.His parents are reg.English,grand parents are English.Pretty sure Huck a Buck was English,Smooth Talking Jed was also.No walkers in the 3 generation pedigree I have for him.Blueticks would be fine,I like blue.Let me know what you find,and Thanks alot for the help.His name is Zues,don't want it changed,spelled the way I wanted it.

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Posted by mocatman on 08-02-2011 07:27 PM:

non pr

without researching anything i see a non pr dog in the second generation, and two in the third generation. that means at least two single registered dogs in possibly the fourth generation. making him at least 1/16th of something that probably wasnt english. that is a lot closer up than the split of the breeds. grand pups of my female out of hooch will be 1/16th walker and will also be 'pr'. that bloodline will soon be just as "pure" as yours and everyone else's. i could find no info on any of the hounds listed on any pedigree database site, but i see a hardtime dog on there, and i dare say there is a good possibility that he has some hardtime speck in him. i'm not putting down on your dog or anyone else's, my point is that this has been standard practice in the english breed for a long time.

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