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-- what does the redbone breed lack (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=12186)

I'll give you that-

Razz's a coondog. Deserves a shot.

hey joe sent you a pm.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Stretcher
I started coonhunting last August. My dog was about 5 months old then. The old boy I went with then and a few since have told me to just be patient. None of them owned Red dogs but told me from their experience they develop slower and are hard-headed as all get out.

I thought it was B.S. and they were just knockin' the Redbones....but they were pretty on. It took a little while but then the first night my dog finally went hunting with other dogs he treed lay-up at the first two dumps....the other dogs couldn't smell a thing at the tree, next dump he split treed about 20 yards from another dog and they both had meat.

What am I rambling about....doing a little bragging and I also think Redbone owners/breeders may lack a little patience.

I would also like to see folks with good females hook up with these guys with good males and breed and then look for Redbone people willing to hunt them for them....kinda like a Redbone owners/hunters collaborative effort.

Either way it goes...I love em!!!!

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Redbones

As any houndsman, my ear is open to any conversation about a hound, any hound. I don't hunt Red dogs, but must agree with Fireball, if one would search them out, and get them in the right hands...they can win too. Over the years I've hunted with several Red dogs, and came to respect them...One of the oldest coon clubs E. of the Mississippi Oak Ridge Coonhunters Club in Tn. knows what Redbones are about. The Coffman's use to win most of the events we put on with, Coffmans Hatti, Coffmans Little Joe, Lady and a truck load of others. I hunted with them several times...and any coonhunter would have been proud to have them on a lead. Good luck with the Reds, darn their purtty too..

Redbones

I have owned several breeds of coonhounds, mostly out of well known hounds. I have owned Blueticks out of the Blue Jet line but the best Bluetick I owned (and he was a fine dog) was out of stock that no one ever heard of.

I have owned a number of redbones, mostly out of good dogs in the Tall Timber Talker Line. Those dogs lacked heart and determination. The best dog I ever owned of any breed was a redbone out of GNC Little Man. I don't recall the dam but it seems like her name was GNC Ann. Both the sire and the dam earned GNC before one year old. He opened on and ran jack rabbits at 4 months old, could tree his own coon in stile at 8 months old and treed two bobcats before he was one year old. He was killed at about 14 months old.

I had the good fortune to hunt with Woodpecker back in Ohio many years ago. He won the hunt easily and I don't believe I have ever been in the woods with a better hound. He went hunting when released and ran every track that night like it was red hot. He treed on the tree and chopped every breath he took. He wasn't particularly pretty (appeared to be too long proportunate to his height):

I suppose that Redbones do need something because anyone can see that they are not competetive in the night hunts when compared to the Walkers and even the Blueticks.

So, to the extent there is trouble with the breed, this is where I think the trouble lies: Redbones, in my humble opinion are the prettiest of all hounds. This beauty is observed by prospective owners who are satisfied to own a beautiful dog. Many feel that they have achieved their greatest goal if they can turn the dog into a show champion Not so many compete in the night hunts and as a consequence, few achieve fame as a great hunting hound. All of this perpetuates the same cycle of breeding to show dogs and show dogs do not necessarily have the genes to make top level hunting dogs.

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John Burns

Janet

That is an awesome name (PLEASE just don't call him red, lol)

Good luck with the total dog concept. THe only problem you should face is that in order for you to get the total dog award they have to have a min of a passing 170 in Obed and the WIN in the show HAS to be with competition. If it's the same there as it is out here that it almost impossible unless you place in group or bring your own competition.

I was talking to Todd K. yesterday about the all breed shows and the coonhounds in regard to the top 10 premier. Was kinda curious how they were going to incorporate the top 10 with the coonhounds with the top 10 in all breed when coonhounds started showing all breed and racking up points. Some of the top handlers out here have either been or are seriously going to give the all breed shows a try. There's some people (ok, a LOT) that have no interest in coonhunting and either have coonhounds as pets or for big game that I have talked to that are interested in the all breed shows.

Some of the coonhound show dog people are also getting interested even though there is no hunt because they have a chance to make one trip for the weekend and come out with a GRCH. Out here you can also make a CH in a weekend on a dog with no points previous. All you have to do is bring competition and win 3 best of sex under three different judges. Definatly more appealing where the drive is so far between events. It's more cost effectine to travel for a weekend and have a shot at three shows vs one.

Was almost impossible to GRCH a coonhound all breed here, but with the new amendment bring another CH and a GRCH and you can do it in one weekend providing they have different judges for all shows. Sure cuts costs of trying to drive 500+ miles one way to attend 1 show a bunch of times.

They start getting more all breed events I have a feeling a lot of the common winners at bench shows are going to move over to the all breed shows as well, if not totally besides the bigger shows. If you are wanting to title a dog in conformation you get a LOT more bang for your buck at the all breed shows here than the bench shows.

I personally think they should give bonus points for all dogs defeated. It's kind of unfair when you have a coonhound hitting the breed sectional shows and defeating 10-30 dogs in the breed and they carry more points than one that may have only had 4 in breed but beat out 900 dogs for BIS at an all breed show. (may happen ya know, lol)

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It ain't the bark, it ain't the growl, it's the bite that hurts!

Well, I think what the redbone breed lacks is a little drive and maybe a little heart. The line that I have doesn't seem to be short on either of those but from what everyone else says some of the other lines do. I mean, there is good and bad to every line of every breed. I really think a lot of it comes from training. If you don't train a dog to be a coon treeing machine than how can you expect it to be one. If the redbone breed had the numbers of dogs and the number of handlers to put them in the hunts I think they wouldn't be any worse off than any of the other breeds. I tell you one thing, I in no way will put up with a lazy dog. If he doesn't go hunting and give me all he has then I won't keep it. If it wastes my time I won't put up with it. I don't care how purty the dog is. Besides, if my parents cared that much about how purty I was, I don't think I would be here. I just figured that if my dogs are gonna be ugly sh*t eaters, I might as well be too. (Minuse the sh*t eating)

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Jordan Hall
(715)297-4485
Wausau, Wi

no complaints from my reds

I got mine as puppies back last july. They were born in may of 03. I hunted them this year during deer season. I have an older walker I turned them out with. They have done fantastic, and now are flat out running on their own. They both have the prettiest voices I have ever heared in a hound. One is louder than the whole pack..Simply beautiful music!!!!!

MS. FORD

Looked at your site, better check the breeding of Machine Gun Jack?

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OLD TIMER

Starplott - Thanks for the advice. Always anxious to learn all I can to better my hounds and my knowledge of how stuff works.
I love the shows because of the competition. Not because of beating the others so much as it gives me a standard that I can then judge my dogs by and better my dogs by knowledge learned. By going to further shows, I can then get a measure of where I'm at. It can only be an honest measure if I have the best competition possible. And not worth winning if not earned. I have not yet shown my redbones but I have shown my cavalier king charles spaniels and for years dairy goats on national level. Showing is a great tool and fun too! =) And the people you meet while showing with common goals as yourself... priceless!

Old Timer - oops!! I'm so glad you pointed that out to me. Thanks a bunch. I fixed it right away. Appreciate it.

Janet
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John and Janet Ford
Ironwood Redbones
http://www.farmsites.com/ironwood/

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John & Janet Ford
Michigan
,-._,-.
\/)"(\/
(_o_)

The only time that you should look down on anyone is when you're helping them up.

janet would you please look at your post about your kennel name.

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LUCKING'S MIDNITE REDS
"A FAMILY OF DUAL PURPOSE HOUNDS THAT CONTINUES ON GENERATION AFTER GENERATION"
Home of:

'Pr' Lucking's Code Red Mountain Dew ( Owned by chad porter and myself) ( Daughter of Desperado) 2 1st place wins ukc nite hunt. 1 best of show with comp , bench show.

'Pr' Lucking's Northern Red Tucker

AND THE PAST:
NT.CH.CH.LUCKING'S KN. LAKE TROOPER
NT.CH.GR.CH.LUCKING'S RAISIN KANE(son of trooper)
NT.CH.CH. LUCKING'S MAD MAGGIE(niece to tornado)
GR.CH.NT.CH.LUCKING'S RED TORNADO(son of trooper)
NT.CH.GR.CH.L&I RED HOT WYLIE(son of tornado)
'pr'lucking's northern red cowgirl (daughter of wylie)(needs just a 1st given to mark barnett)
nt.ch.gr.ch.Lucking's Midnite Desperado (son of cowgirl)(sold to bill tabler)
Nt.Ch.Ch. Desperado's Midnite 3 D(son of Desperado) (given to larry tabler)

Like everyone, I have an opinion..

I have yet to see a big show winning dog that was bred strictly for show. If you check their bloodlines, I believe you will find that they are just as heavy in competition blood as any other dog. What you probably will find is that there are a lot of Dual Grand in their background. If put in the hunts, they would fare just as well. I get bristled up everytime I read that a dog is bred just for show and that is what has hurt the bloodline and that a dog should not be showed if it is not a Nt. Ch. People that show are just as important promoters of the breed as anyone. Some people have disabilities, some have work schedules limiting their time away from home. Others are youngsters getting their feet wet showing that puppy that no amount of money could buy. Any how, let's face it, some people are just not into the night hunt scene, whether it be from a bad experience or just don't care to take a chance on something happening to their dog(changing the way the dog hunts or the way it trees, etc.) Should these dogs be left behing the barn until they can prove that they have been in enough hunts to get lucky enough to get Nt. Ch. Just because someone has a dog that is pleasing to look at and is not being thrown into the night hunt scene does not always mean that the dog was bred just to show. Now I feel better!

look at it this way tim you got a good looking redbone from all daul grand stock but the dog can not tree a coon but is one hell of a show dog. so the person keeps him and breeds him know not only does he not hunt but his pups are super goodlooking but 95% of them can't tree a lick either but being good looker they get to stay alive also. i guess what i'm saying is the people who show only now i said show only don't care if there dog can run and tree a coon it only matters how they look or how many show trophy's they win with the dog. it comes down to how the dog will reproduce. a dog that can't tree a coon could produce 100 gr.nt.ch.s and that would be good but there is show people out there breeding females and there males or vise versa throw good looking pups but that is it.

in fact here is my challage to you show only people to prove me wrong, get me a pup off something you have bred for at least 2 generations i will pay for the pup . i will start it just like i do any of mine. and nite hunt when time comes if it has what it takes and i finish it out to nt.ch. i will give it back to you no charge. know you might say maybe i'm not a hunter or can't handle or know what it takes to make it so i wll give my references.

gr.ch.nt.ch.lucking's raisin kane(son of nt.ch.ch.lucking's kn.lake trooper)
gr.ch.nt.ch.lucking's red tornado(son of nt.ch.ch.lucking's kn. lake trooper
gr.ch.nt.ch. l&i red hot wylie(son of tornado and grandson to kane)
nt.ch.ch. lucking's mad maggie(her sire is trooper jr(jr is off nt.ch.ch.lucking's kn.lake trooper and jr is full brother to tornado)


so with my little bit of references does any national show people what to take my challege what the heck i will open this to all breeds. and i do have a training pen that is a 1/2 acre with one coon it to get the pup started right and my walker buddy has a 10 acre pen.

so irf your up for it call me (763)552-0074
wade lucking

__________________
LUCKING'S MIDNITE REDS
"A FAMILY OF DUAL PURPOSE HOUNDS THAT CONTINUES ON GENERATION AFTER GENERATION"
Home of:

'Pr' Lucking's Code Red Mountain Dew ( Owned by chad porter and myself) ( Daughter of Desperado) 2 1st place wins ukc nite hunt. 1 best of show with comp , bench show.

'Pr' Lucking's Northern Red Tucker

AND THE PAST:
NT.CH.CH.LUCKING'S KN. LAKE TROOPER
NT.CH.GR.CH.LUCKING'S RAISIN KANE(son of trooper)
NT.CH.CH. LUCKING'S MAD MAGGIE(niece to tornado)
GR.CH.NT.CH.LUCKING'S RED TORNADO(son of trooper)
NT.CH.GR.CH.L&I RED HOT WYLIE(son of tornado)
'pr'lucking's northern red cowgirl (daughter of wylie)(needs just a 1st given to mark barnett)
nt.ch.gr.ch.Lucking's Midnite Desperado (son of cowgirl)(sold to bill tabler)
Nt.Ch.Ch. Desperado's Midnite 3 D(son of Desperado) (given to larry tabler)

Wow....wkfii....we agree on something...actually I think that is the second thing we have agreed on!!!!

You asked our honest opinions about the dogs we have hunted against. Well I live in MO and for the past few years have not seen very many Red Bones in very many hunts. The ones I have drawn were for the most part from the same strain of dogs. They were track staddlers and were very slow on the track. The last Redbone sectional I was at the high scoring redbond (Grand nite) treed a cat on someones porch and was scratched.

Here is my honest opinion
1. They need more drive (From the ones I saw)
2. The breed needs a better breeding program. (The need to seek out the winners and hunters and breed them)

I am sure there are some good red dogs out there, those dogs need to be bred to one another and those pups need to get into the right hands.

Good luck!

__________________
Art Thompson
"Old Hickory Treeing Walkers"

Here's a picture of my redbone.Nite Ch PR Sioux River JJ Junior

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Tim Hoeck

yeah baby-

I like that- all stretched out. Reminds me of that picture in the ad a few years back on Rev Red. Find it and hold yours up next to it Tim.

Drop the tailgate!

I guess there are quite a few opinions to this post that make some sense. After reading many of the other post about some of you coonhunters thinking that a RED dog is the ole me too stand at your feet pot licker I can't but help get fired up. Like Fireball puts it that is a bunch of Bull. There are plenty of good RED dogs if you know where to look.

I live just outside of Whitakers, NC and got some mighty fine RED dogs that has, can, and will in the future, win more than there share of hunts against all breeds. They have hunted against what is some of the best of every breed. Not saying they are perfect every night but they do it and do it the way it is suppose to be done. Anybody that has any doubts or has a measuring stick they would like to hunt with my dogs is welcome to come by for a hunt.

As far as RED dogs reproducing: One of the same RED dogs that is winnning consistently for me is also reproducing for the breed in a very positive way. His pups are running their own coon and treeing at a very early age. You will see some of his pups in the hunts this year. This dogs name is "CH. Grandnite Champion Fraziers TimberMusic Psycho" Psycho is a get in the dark, get struck and treed quick with the meat type dog that can take any kind of pressure you put on him. Psycho has a very impressive list of wins over the last couple of years in the hunts I have put him in. For a list of his wins, phone numbers of guys that have pups or just references on Psycho shoot me a email or call me. Psycho is a grandpup out of Hoffmeister's Rusty Red.

P.S. Nite CH. Fraziers TimberMusic goldie is due to have pups out of Psycho in a couple of weeks. Goldie is as littermate to Razor Red. That whole litter of hounds have made Grandnite or Nite Ch. They are coondogs and reproduce good dogs.

Well, is that what you call bragging or just stating facts. If we REDBONE guys need to let the world know what we got there it is. Take it and do with it as you may, but one thing for sure I won't be sitting back waiting for something to happen. These RED's will be at the next hunt supporting the breed as best they can. Take care and keep'em RED!

Go Psycho!
TimberMusic Kennels
Donnie Frazier

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TimberMusic Kennels
HOME OF:

Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch FRAZIER'S TIMBERMUSIC PSYCHO R.I.P.

Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch.Firebrands Smoking With Tess

Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch.Bings Tess ( 2010 Southern Redbone Days Overall Champion )
(2010 Grand American Final Four Finalist )

hey donnie long time since i have seen you on here. how is the mae dog doing and have you got her bred to physco yet for i would like one of those pups. also did you and henry noss make her a show champion becasue i have see duke has made another show champion and we can't figure were it came from. if you guys like mae, maybe you would be interested in a littermate sister. mae is of of (nt.ch.powderhole dazzling duke(owned by guy lucking and gr.ch.lucking's red princess owned by guy lucking, we also have 2 super hard tree dogs off of duke and lacey(lacey is a full littermate sister to princess) donnie we need to talk because mae half brother would be a great choice for physco daughters. 763-552-0074

wade

__________________
LUCKING'S MIDNITE REDS
"A FAMILY OF DUAL PURPOSE HOUNDS THAT CONTINUES ON GENERATION AFTER GENERATION"
Home of:

'Pr' Lucking's Code Red Mountain Dew ( Owned by chad porter and myself) ( Daughter of Desperado) 2 1st place wins ukc nite hunt. 1 best of show with comp , bench show.

'Pr' Lucking's Northern Red Tucker

AND THE PAST:
NT.CH.CH.LUCKING'S KN. LAKE TROOPER
NT.CH.GR.CH.LUCKING'S RAISIN KANE(son of trooper)
NT.CH.CH. LUCKING'S MAD MAGGIE(niece to tornado)
GR.CH.NT.CH.LUCKING'S RED TORNADO(son of trooper)
NT.CH.GR.CH.L&I RED HOT WYLIE(son of tornado)
'pr'lucking's northern red cowgirl (daughter of wylie)(needs just a 1st given to mark barnett)
nt.ch.gr.ch.Lucking's Midnite Desperado (son of cowgirl)(sold to bill tabler)
Nt.Ch.Ch. Desperado's Midnite 3 D(son of Desperado) (given to larry tabler)

hey wade

what ever happened to the mighty mouse dog?

mighty mouse that travis and kyle bemboom have she is still alive and gets hunted them boys quit comp hunting, i'm working on getting her bred to either wylie or jazz.

__________________
LUCKING'S MIDNITE REDS
"A FAMILY OF DUAL PURPOSE HOUNDS THAT CONTINUES ON GENERATION AFTER GENERATION"
Home of:

'Pr' Lucking's Code Red Mountain Dew ( Owned by chad porter and myself) ( Daughter of Desperado) 2 1st place wins ukc nite hunt. 1 best of show with comp , bench show.

'Pr' Lucking's Northern Red Tucker

AND THE PAST:
NT.CH.CH.LUCKING'S KN. LAKE TROOPER
NT.CH.GR.CH.LUCKING'S RAISIN KANE(son of trooper)
NT.CH.CH. LUCKING'S MAD MAGGIE(niece to tornado)
GR.CH.NT.CH.LUCKING'S RED TORNADO(son of trooper)
NT.CH.GR.CH.L&I RED HOT WYLIE(son of tornado)
'pr'lucking's northern red cowgirl (daughter of wylie)(needs just a 1st given to mark barnett)
nt.ch.gr.ch.Lucking's Midnite Desperado (son of cowgirl)(sold to bill tabler)
Nt.Ch.Ch. Desperado's Midnite 3 D(son of Desperado) (given to larry tabler)

Donnie.............

where is there one of those powerhouses in the state of Georgia, so I can go hunt with him.............I'm interested in a started dog..................Wade has already offered me a good deal on a pup......how 'bout some names?...........did not write this to be rude..................I'm seriously interested...........thanks.

hey donnie here is mae half brother. he will make daul grand this year and possible have 2 to 4 nt.ch. off of him not bad for 9 pups sired so far we will be breeding him to 4 females from our kennel. boys this dog is the real deal and his pups are born dogs not puppies and what i mean by that is they don't act like puppies as 5 month old they act like a 3 year old dog and are all bussiness only thinking about coon(at least most the time have had a couple run some whitetail) this is going to be a exciting year for bred right kennel as we plan on making things happen this year. anybody and everybody aare more than welcome to come hunt with any of the dogs we have on the place( you got 50+ to choose from) over the years we have kept the best of our best from complete litters and since 1988 have been doing this and feel now we can sell pups that can compete with any breed at any hunt. we own 20 quality females but only breed 2 to 4 a year we could easy flood the market with our dogs, but we don't believe in that, this year we plan on cutting down to half of what we have now. so if your looking for a hound to hunt in the hunts call me or e-mail me. you come up hunt with dog of your choice and if i have nothing for you to take home i will pay your gas back, bring your measuring stick with you. ther will be roughly 20 dogs for sale in 2004 sold by ability.

wade lucking
763-552-0074

__________________
LUCKING'S MIDNITE REDS
"A FAMILY OF DUAL PURPOSE HOUNDS THAT CONTINUES ON GENERATION AFTER GENERATION"
Home of:

'Pr' Lucking's Code Red Mountain Dew ( Owned by chad porter and myself) ( Daughter of Desperado) 2 1st place wins ukc nite hunt. 1 best of show with comp , bench show.

'Pr' Lucking's Northern Red Tucker

AND THE PAST:
NT.CH.CH.LUCKING'S KN. LAKE TROOPER
NT.CH.GR.CH.LUCKING'S RAISIN KANE(son of trooper)
NT.CH.CH. LUCKING'S MAD MAGGIE(niece to tornado)
GR.CH.NT.CH.LUCKING'S RED TORNADO(son of trooper)
NT.CH.GR.CH.L&I RED HOT WYLIE(son of tornado)
'pr'lucking's northern red cowgirl (daughter of wylie)(needs just a 1st given to mark barnett)
nt.ch.gr.ch.Lucking's Midnite Desperado (son of cowgirl)(sold to bill tabler)
Nt.Ch.Ch. Desperado's Midnite 3 D(son of Desperado) (given to larry tabler)

quote:

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Originally posted by Tim Hoeck
Here's a picture of my redbone.Nite Ch PR Sioux River JJ Junior

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__________________
John M. Vaught

come on now.............

Georgia is a BIG state......................anybody????