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-- One I think is bullsh!t!!!!!! (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=115759)

Ok, Im going to throw another twist in this. I was at a hunt back in June. All dogs were struck and my dog took the track way in deep and got treed. I treed him and we started to the dog. After about fifteen minutes walking we got to him and he was down in a creek bed below a real steep brushy bank. I had noticed while going to the dog that every so often the dog would shut up for about 15 seconds which is not normally this dogs style. When we got within about fifteen feet of the dog you still could not see him due to the bank and the brush. About that time he shut up and you could hear splashing about ten feet furhte in. After about fifteen seconds the do started barking again about fifteen feet in front of us. At this time the judge said he was minusing the dog for moving on the tree, he said he could hear him down in the water moving. I stated at that time that he was reacting too quick that we needed to see what was going on but he refused to do anything but minus him. I then said go ahead and retree him then. After the five was up we crawled down the bank and the dog was treed on a tree that had fell and the top was laying in the fork of another tree across the creek. The dog would go up the tree as far as he could, would jump or fall off and go back to the base and do it again. While he was in the water he did not bark but would start again at the base of the tree. We all saw the coon and the judge then plussed the second tree call but would not do anything about the first minus. All of the other cast members agreed at that time. Later in the hunt when they had all took a pencil wipping by the judge they told me since I had already questione it I should take it to the master of Hounds. By then I was so frustrated I didnt even feel like bothering, Ive seen too many times when they rule this as a judgement call and refuse to overturn it. Just take your knocks and go on.

"OFFICIAL UKC HONOR RULES"

I won't give you the definition for HONOR OR HONORABLE, you can look it up & decide for your self, to see if it covers this situation.

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John Wittenborn

Cutler, America

Everyone needs to back to the first post on this thread and read again Chyrs's account of what happened. She makes no mention of any question about the dog being minused so we can only assume the dogs handler also thought the dog was moving. She makes no mention of the scratch for minusing out ever being questioned so again, I assume the handler also must have agreed with the judges decision to scratch the dog for minusing out. Apparently sometime after all that, the cast must have arrived at the riverbank and witnessed what was causeing the dog to repeatedly appear to tree and move. So the only real question is this: can a judge or majority of the cast, acting within the rules, go back to the card and wipeout all those minuses and wipeout the scratch? Is there anything in the rulebook that would allow that? That is really the only question to answer on this one.

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Originally posted by JiM
This is what happens when you let women set at the table instead of just cleaning it off.

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This EB's better half...

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American Leopard Hound
FNL Hanselman's Blu Pixie Dust

Fact is I am blind in one eye but I see ok out of the other. You think that was slander, you need to get a life.

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Originally posted by Surveyor
I just want to see that standing tree in the middle of a swift river.

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If the dog could keep swimming back why couldn't he figure out how to stay?

personally I think the whole thing is bullsh!t

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gotcha

Take your minus and move on. Bad break, but we all get them sooner or later............Roger

If you minus a dog under those circumstances you are trying to win on a tecnecality. If you have to win that way most of the time it means you lack dog power. Instead of penalizing a dog for doing a good job GET a BETTER DOG!

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Tablerock

I know this is kinda off topic but since the MLB playoffs are under way I figure this might be a good comparison....lets say player A hits a fly ball down the left field line and there is a 35 mph. wind blowing right to left....the ball lands 10 ft. foul...should the ump call it fair since the wind caused it to blow foul?

I know it sucks to have this happen but if the water caused the dog to MOVE he MOVED....may not have chosen to MOVE or had any control over MOVING...but he MOVED and rules say to minus him...again I know it sucks but if we keep bending the rules then why use them in the first place?

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Originally posted by JiM
Stick to pleasure hunting boys and girls. You can't deal with the cold reality of a rule book. The dog minused out by the rules. Nothing in the rulebook would support going back and changing anything. Bad breaks are part of nite hunts. Simple as that.

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Originally posted by Junior L
If you minus a dog under those circumstances you are trying to win on a tecnecality. If you have to win that way most of the time it means you lack dog power. Instead of penalizing a dog for doing a good job GET a BETTER DOG!

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Eric Hardy
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If your dog is fat,you aren't getting enuff exercise!

eric

i'm with you on that one and i also think a time out to find out what was going on is apprprate as why should the other members lose hunting time the dog that was leaving could have been in danger.
i had a hound tree a coon in a landfill where there was a methane vent pipe about 6 inches in diameter they wanted to minus my hound fror moving when in fact when she barked into the pipe it sounded like she moved when she pulled back and barked it sounded like she moved again but in fact she never left the pipe the coon went into

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the rooster will crow again.. keep them english and keep them looking up
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What about when dogs tree in a culvert going under the road. While the cast walks down the road to them , you can hear a dog fighting the coon. The coon pops out the other end and up a tree. The dogs move to the other side of the road to the tree and all are minused ! LOL

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Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

Jim, I read abunch of your post on this thing. Not because I try to just because you post in most of the threads on here. I will say one thing evrey time I read somthing you typed I feel dumber than I did before I read it! If you spent as much time hunting as you did typing you would teach yourself something. JMO!!

Does anybody agree with me are am I just thinking wrong???

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Ray Jones

To The HUNT!

The foul ball theary is out, because the ball is on noe side of the foul pole or other. When treed dogs can be under the tree as long as they showing no signs of leaving. On a foul ball it is just a strike with another to go. When you minus a dog for doing his or her job in a two hour hunt you have about struck them out. " If you were plesure hunting would you have shot the coon out and said good job."

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Tablerock

Coony, I hunt about 300 nites a year. How many nites do you hunt? Go back and see how many times I have posted between dusk and daylite. You won't find any.

Well I guess you won't be able to go by times I post because I just posted at 4:30pm and it says 9:30pm but maybe you can figure it out.

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Originally posted by COONY
[B]Does anybody agree with me are am I just thinking wrong??? [/B

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don't let your bull dog mouth overload your puppy dog @ss!

Well it seems about 50/50 on this one which seems to be about what you get when the question comes down to following the rules verses doing what seems right. I'm not crazy about the notion that half believe doing what they think "is the right thing to do" is more important than following the rules but I guess the good news is that most who advocate doing what's right instead of what the rule book requires are seldom part of the draw.

i had

a funny thing happen in a hunt i was judging. my dog treed 30yds. in front of the cast and i treed him. then he moved 20 feet, so i minused him and retreed him. then he moved back to where he was, so i minused him again and retreed him. he did this until he minused out. before i could go a catch him the rest of the dogs came in to him and they treed them quick we went to the tree and it was a boxelder that went up 4-5ft and grew horizonal with the ground for 20ft. then went up again. and yes the coon was there. just a bad break!!!!!

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The moral of this story is to teach your dogs to tree on the up stream side of the tree so he can dig those toenails in and hang on and not get washed away!

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Redticker

Rusty Johnson
UKC Board Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: IL.
Posts: 1394
The moral of this story is to teach your dogs to tree on the up stream side of the tree so he can dig those toenails in and hang on and not get washed away!


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Redticker

NOW THATS FUNNY...

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Jim, I TAKE IT THAT YOU ARE SELDOM PART OF THE DRAW!!!!

Over on another thread last week, you tried to read something into a Rule, that it didn't say. You said that the RIGHT THING TO DO was to minus the dog that opened on track, after the tree was closed then quit & came into the cast. If memory serves me correctly, I've seen where you have said before that the Rule "meant to say or means" such & such when in PLAIN ENGLISH, it did not say that, as we seen last week.

And as for as participating in Comp. Hunts, I would say that I have attended about as many as any one on here. That includes starting with the Possom Rule Hunts in 1948. I have seen alot of changes in the Rules & in the Dog's over the years. But the BIGGEST CHANGES that I have seen over the years have been in the PEOPLE. I only have to refer to the back of the Magizines to verify that PARTICPATION PER EVENT, is down considerably from 20, 30, 40, & 50 years ago. I don't think that there are fewer Registered dogs today, so there must be some other reason???? Do you want to guess, what I think ONE OF THE MAIN REASONS IS????

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John Wittenborn

Cutler, America