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-- What rule??? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928541412)

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Originally posted by Night Shift
It doesn’t matter if you think the rule sucks it just matters that it’s a rule in the book 11D. Three ukc field reps made the call and I knew before he left the woods he was scratched. I don’t like parking meters but I still obey the law. I would of been upset with the situation but like I said I didn’t hear what the judge said to make him think he could cut loose. I just heard the judge say no no no then running and jumping on a dog. t🤷🏻‍♂️

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quote:

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Originally posted by Night Shift
It doesn’t matter if you think the rule sucks it just matters that it’s a rule in the book 11D. Three ukc field reps made the call and I knew before he left the woods he was scratched. I don’t like parking meters but I still obey the law. I would of been upset with the situation but like I said I didn’t hear what the judge said to make him think he could cut loose. I just heard the judge say no no no then running and jumping on a dog. t🤷🏻‍♂️

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Originally posted by JB Cobb
If 11D was used did a dog bark before he cut ? This rule does not say anything about not cutting until judge says so.. did a dog bark and he cut ? If so he followed the rules to the letter... if dogs are treed it’s his option.. if no dogs are struck in he cuts ... and please explain why this would be a scratching offense..

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quote:

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Originally posted by JB Cobb
If 11D was used did a dog bark before he cut ? This rule does not say anything about not cutting until judge says so.. did a dog bark and he cut ? If so he followed the rules to the letter... if dogs are treed it’s his option.. if no dogs are struck in he cuts ... and please explain why this would be a scratching offense..

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Would it make a difference if the judge accidentally told him to turn loose?

I love the rule in the other KC that says “Scratch should be used at the very least option” it also says in the last of the rules in this same KC that all situations can not be covered by rules to use common sense. Until we know the whole story which it should be shared so all can learn by it then all we are doing is speculating.

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If he recasted with no dogs opening up or no dog treed yet and no judge telling him to recast which we don't know he could be scratched but we don't know because we were not in the woods with them

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Originally posted by elvis
Would it make a difference if the judge accidentally told him to turn loose?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Night Shift
Marv Absolutely that’s why I said I couldn’t hear anything except no no no. But let me ask you this if the handler thinks he hears something he doesn’t does that make a difference?

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Originally posted by medicman_stark
He was at the clubhouse.

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Re: Two cents

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Originally posted by david kelly
Don't know why they scratched the dog ,but she was kicking their butts,and the best dog in the cast did not win , winning on technically don't make you a world champion

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Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
With a non hunting judge nope. The judge is who has to hear dogs strike, treed and open. Just like he is the only one who has to see a coon or judge a tree to be slick or circled.

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If I'm judging at this level I make it very clear when to cut and when not to. As soon as the dog was pulled off her tree the judge should have stated to walk any direction you want and as soon as I tell you cut you cut loose.

Very unfortunate on many levels. A handler saw an opportunity to get rid of the competition and was successful, its that plain and simple.

Me personally if I'm up 2 or 3 coon I'm fighting tooth and nail to keep my dog on the lead.

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from the guy who does not comp hunt....

What in the world is the purpose of a rule that says you can't turn your dog loose until you hear another dog bark?

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Rules

Rules are rules like them or not. This is not the first time and likely will not be the last time that the best dog did not win due to handler error. I definitely remember years ago when a English dog that was winning the UKC WORLD HUNT was scratched due to the handler beating on a den tree. Yes, the handler cost his dog
the World Championship, just like the handler cost Miney the World Championship. I also, remember a handler costing his dog a new truck in PKC by not declaring his dog treed and was scratched on the stationary rule. His dog could not loose if he had treed his dog no matter what happened after he treed he was that far ahead of he other dogs. Nerves definitely play a big role in these situations and handlers are only human and make mistakes, sometimes these mistakes are critical, just like in Mineys case. Mistakes happen in all sports that cost one a win, this hunt is just one example. I feel for Jerald and Miney as she was on fire and was definitely the best dog on that night. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

According to the above post

He turned loose for whatever perceived reason he thought he was suppose to.
The judge yelled No...No...
He jumped on his dog and contained her from getting away.
So she never got away even though off the leash.


At what point did the dog get an advantage for a second or two mistaken few feet of freedom.

Where the other two dogs given a disadvantage ...NO

No harm ..No foul

She was kicking butt and that other handler used it to his advantage to get hergone.

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Re: Rules

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Originally posted by Dave Richards
Rules are rules like them or not. This is not the first time and likely will not be the last time that the best dog did not win due to handler error. I definitely remember years ago when a English dog that was winning the UKC WORLD HUNT was scratched due to the handler beating on a den tree. Yes, the handler cost his dog
the World Championship, just like the handler cost Miney the World Championship. I also, remember a handler costing his dog a new truck in PKC by not declaring his dog treed and was scratched on the stationary rule. His dog could not loose if he had treed his dog no matter what happened after he treed he was that far ahead of he other dogs. Nerves definitely play a big role in these situations and handlers are only human and make mistakes, sometimes these mistakes are critical, just like in Mineys case. Mistakes happen in all sports that cost one a win, this hunt is just one example. I feel for Jerald and Miney as she was on fire and was definitely the best dog on that night. Dave

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quote:

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Originally posted by benderb4
According to the above post

He turned loose for whatever perceived reason he thought he was suppose to.
The judge yelled No...No...
He jumped on his dog and contained her from getting away.
So she never got away even though off the leash.


At what point did the dog get an advantage for a second or two mistaken few feet of freedom.

Where the other two dogs given a disadvantage ...NO

No harm ..No foul

She was kicking butt and that other handler used it to his advantage to get hergone.

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__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Re: Re: Rules

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Originally posted by medicman_stark
The year that the English dog was scratched, there wasn’t a rule in place for beating on a tree or pulling a vine. It only stated that you couldn’t squall. This incident allowed Dick Brothers to win. UKC added pulling vines and beating on tree to this rule after this incident. I was told that the owner of the English dog sued UKC over this. I never heard the results.

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

why wasn't there a ? put on the card i have had the exact same thing at SS except the judge said your min. is up and their was a dog treed every breath

why wasn't there a ? put on the card i have had the exact same thing at SS except the judge said your min. is up and their was a dog treed every breath

The year the English dog was scratched, the handler asked the judge if he could tap on the tree and the judge said yes.
To avoid this getting deleted again I'll just say that judge is now, today, an almost saint in the coon hunting couch world.
Now, this cast that is being discussed here is like so many others that the best dog didn't win. Even when reading the rules they are followed by " use common sense" and common sense says if your dog is getting dominated you eliminate the best dog.
Years ago it was the English dog, not so long ago the cross bred dog. Now this one. The other K.C. just held a huge competition last week. Visit their board and see how much confusion and chaos they had .... none.

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.

We have a lot of assumptions on here.

I read a statement on another social media platform that there were some words spoken by the judge immediately before the dog was cut loose. I think when we quit assuming and that information is verified. The facts might point to a misunderstanding between judge and handler. It was rectified right away by the dog being caught. Like mentioned here. No Harm, No Foul.

But then the coon hunting lawyers take over and fair never seems to be fair.

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Re: .

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Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
We have a lot of assumptions on here.

I read a statement on another social media platform that there were some words spoken by the judge immediately before the dog was cut loose. I think when we quit assuming and that information is verified. The facts might point to a misunderstanding between judge and handler. It was rectified right away by the dog being caught. Like mentioned here. No Harm, No Foul.

But then the coon hunting lawyers take over and fair never seems to be fair.

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__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

quote:

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Originally posted by houndsound
from the guy who does not comp hunt....

What in the world is the purpose of a rule that says you can't turn your dog loose until you hear another dog bark?

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