UKC Forums - How do you score this

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Posted by benderb4 on 02-20-2021 02:44 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Tim Green
If a dog carries that track out and has a coon....you can minus it all you want....and your vote might carry some weight with some home field advantage, but it won’t everywhere. You only need that strike anyway if your dog can’t tree a coon very fast. Some people feel they need to minus good consistent winning dogs to get them out of cast so they have a chance.

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Posted by Sonny Phipps on 02-20-2021 02:49 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Tim Green
If a dog carries that track out and has a coon....you can minus it all you want....and your vote might carry some weight with some home field advantage, but it won’t everywhere. You only need that strike anyway if your dog can’t tree a coon very fast. Some people feel they need to minus good consistent winning dogs to get them out of cast so they have a chance.

X2 . Unfortunately it’s almost impossible to minus a dog that leaves opening, never shuts up very long and is parked under a coon when u get to him. Most houndsman with a little experience can tell pretty fast who is babbling. Getting it minused is hard to do tho.

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Posted by benderb4 on 02-20-2021 03:50 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Sonny Phipps
X2 . Unfortunately it’s almost impossible to minus a dog that leaves opening, never shuts up very long and is parked under a coon when u get to him. Most houndsman with a little experience can tell pretty fast who is babbling. Getting it minused is hard to do tho.

AAAHHH .. AND that is the problem.
You see how many argue over a rule here or any where in black and white
Yet we are suppose to trust these same individuals to know or use common sense to determine the difference between a babbler and and honest strike.
I can cite numerous experiences of my own but this one stands out ...
I know one particular very seasoned been there done that competition hunter that swore a cast members dog was babbling . Took 3-4 dumps before that cast member was able to prove otherwise. GUY ATE CROW
So point is if this guy couldn't figure it out and he was well versed in Comp hunts as well as owning several top hounds.(EVEN PLACED IN TOP 10 WORLD HUNT AND SOLD DOGS THAT PLACED HIGH SO HE KNEW HIS STUFF) how can you expect a less experienced judge to know the difference ???

And instead of doing away with strike points as some have suggested.
Perhaps we should do away with the babbling rule.
Strike them when they open and minus if they shut up
After all the tree dog has advantage of extra 25 points.
A first tree dog will beat a first strike dog every night...RIGHT?

Posted by Tim Green on 02-20-2021 04:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by benderb4
AAAHHH ..

And instead of doing away with strike points as some have suggested.
Perhaps we should do away with the babbling rule.
Strike them when they open and minus if they shut up
After all the tree dog has advantage of extra 25 points.
A first tree dog will beat a first strike dog every night...RIGHT?

Absolutely.

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Posted by Donnie Stevens on 02-20-2021 06:09 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Tim Green
Some just have better sniffers than others. Lol

Possibly lol. Had a guy throw a fit one night and get right down all fours smelling the ground....said he couldn't smell nothing and neither could the rest of us so we couldn't prove his dog was babbling. I told him I couldn't smell coons very good but my BS detector has never worked better.

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-21-2021 03:31 AM:

What does "carry a track out" mean? Just because a dog keeps on barking doesn't mean that he is trailing. If a dog keeps on babbling he isn't "carrying a track.

Posted by Tim Green on 02-21-2021 02:34 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
What does "carry a track out" mean? Just because a dog keeps on barking doesn't mean that he is trailing. If a dog keeps on babbling he isn't "carrying a track.

You know good and well what that term means, or are you new to coon hunting?

I can’t help it if some have better noses than others and can strike off the chain. You hear people all the time looking for silent dogs....maybe those dogs can smell it, but don’t want to tell the others. Lol.

I don’t like a chop mouth dog because I feel like they’re just barking because it sounds like that to me.....but if they are under that coon, I can handle it.

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Posted by Rip on 02-21-2021 10:18 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by benderb4
AAAHHH .. AND that is the problem.
You see how many argue over a rule here or any where in black and white
Yet we are suppose to trust these same individuals to know or use common sense to determine the difference between a babbler and and honest strike.
I can cite numerous experiences of my own but this one stands out ...
I know one particular very seasoned been there done that competition hunter that swore a cast members dog was babbling . Took 3-4 dumps before that cast member was able to prove otherwise. GUY ATE CROW
So point is if this guy couldn't figure it out and he was well versed in Comp hunts as well as owning several top hounds.(EVEN PLACED IN TOP 10 WORLD HUNT AND SOLD DOGS THAT PLACED HIGH SO HE KNEW HIS STUFF) how can you expect a less experienced judge to know the difference ???

And instead of doing away with strike points as some have suggested.
Perhaps we should do away with the babbling rule.
Strike them when they open and minus if they shut up
After all the tree dog has advantage of extra 25 points.
A first tree dog will beat a first strike dog every night...RIGHT?

I would rather go back to the old way, a grace period on the first drop of the night and after that nothing. That way you can put your light on the babblers and show everyone they ain't runnin a track LOL.

It was alot easier back then and I didn't see near as many babblers as I did after the rule changed.

They made the rule and it encourages babbling. They are already 200 in there before the minute is up so it's hard to minus a babbler as long as something keeps the strike open, even if it is stubbing it's toe.

Any time you have a rule like that it only encourages the behavior.

Take away the grace period and I would bet you would have alot less babbling dogs.

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Posted by Daniel Donahue on 02-21-2021 10:34 PM:

I don’t

Understand how a cast can vote to minus a dog for babbling if it’s struck after the min. Looks like a good way for a guy to get ganged up on some by local buddies!!!!

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Posted by Rip on 02-21-2021 10:43 PM:

Re: I don’t

quote:
Originally posted by Daniel Donahue
Understand how a cast can vote to minus a dog for babbling if it’s struck after the min. Looks like a good way for a guy to get ganged up on some by local buddies!!!!

If it's babbling it doesn't matter when it is doing it it should be minused. After the minute, thirty minutes in or in the last minute of the hunt.

The minute DOES allow for them to get farther away and makes it harder to do though.

I minused one twice one night in the same drop. He under the minute and it was clear the dog was just chasing the other dogs barking at them. Shined the light on him and the guy admitted he was babbling.

He got struck in later on and come right down the road just barking like a puppy right beside of us and got it again.

If he didn't come by the trucks and we all see him he would have got away with it the second time.

That's the problem I have with giving them a minute. It gives them time to make it hard to judge and encourages hunting babbling dogs.

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Posted by Daniel Donahue on 02-21-2021 11:08 PM:

Ur not understanding

What I’m trying to say. Your dog strikes other three guys don’t want u getting first strike. Bam ur minused

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Posted by pamjohnson on 02-21-2021 11:10 PM:

When I cut a dog loose in a cast the last thing I want to do is pay attention to somebody else's dog and try and minus them. far worse would be that of being a judge and calling for a vote and misusing somebody. The rule should be clear as crystal and simple not the way it is. It leaves room for arguments and speculations just as it in this thread . When they redid a lot of the rules this past time they claimed they wanted to make the rules cut and dry. This rule is not.

Posted by Rip on 02-21-2021 11:27 PM:

Re: Ur not understanding

quote:
Originally posted by Daniel Donahue
What I’m trying to say. Your dog strikes other three guys don’t want u getting first strike. Bam ur minused

Well I have never in my life seen a dog minused for babbling that didn't deserve it.

I have seen babblers not get minused plenty of times.

Never seen one get minused for babbling that wasn't babbling. Not a single time that I can remember.

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Posted by Bob Gleason on 02-22-2021 01:48 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Rip
As Allen has already answered, they are allowed to switch 12 tracks if they want as long as they keep the strike open and get to the tree in time. It is what it is. Those are the rules. The dog must COME IN TO THE CAST to be minused for quitting a track.

This rule has been misinterpreted either intentionally or unintentionally for as long as I have been in the nite hunts. They must come in to the cast to be minused for quitting a track. They can quit as many tracks as they want as long as they don't come in.

Amen!!!!!
The dog is working a track going a way from the cast. and when another dog that is 500 yards opposite direction comes treed. it shuts up and bust it's but to get to that dog. In my pinon it left the track it was supposed to be working. (if the 8 is put on a dog and catches it is that not considered quitting a track?) And every Pearson out there handling a dog knows when there dog does this knows what that dog did but how many will admit to it?

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Posted by harleydan1956 on 02-22-2021 02:41 PM:

There is never, ever a rule that will cover every situation. When the boss man explains it and you still want it another way.... Just saying.
Had a dog run a coon in a barn. Was told to go in and get her. Called her out before I opened the door, I didn't want caught in the barn by farmer.. Judge minused me cause I didn't physically go in and get her, so she quit the track. Shook my head, laughed to myself(I know why) and moved on.
Come on. If you are paying perfect attention to 1 dog, you are not paying attention to all.

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Posted by shadinc on 02-22-2021 02:46 PM:

How does anybody know how many times a dog quits one track and switches to a better one? Some time when you think your dog got a cold track warmed up and running he actually struck a better track.

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Posted by Coby Wright on 02-22-2021 06:40 PM:

This thread has kinda got side-tracked but it's brought up something that I've wanted talked about for awhile.

Maybe Trevor Wade could do an article in coonhound advisor on babbling and the minute rule.

There are some people around here that are highly abusing the minute and babbling rules as a judge to gain advantages for their selves.

To some people here, if you strike under the minute - you're babbling if you aren't treed in the next few seconds or if your dog travels 50-100 yards between barks. Even when you can see the dogs and they are clearly exhibiting the signs of trailing.

I've got to where I avoid a couple clubs because I might draw out with a certain judge (that has a 4th strike dog) that loves to minus for babbling, quitting track and all the rule exploits around that.

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Posted by Rocketman55 on 02-23-2021 01:53 AM:

Well isn't this a wonderful set of rules to be discussing. The truth is, (with these new rules) It doesn't matter what type of strike dog you have worked your whole life to maintain, what NOW matters is what the rest of the cast NEEDS TO HAVE HAPPEN in order to beat you, that now matters.

Yes it is a SAD DAY when members of the cast can punish a dog for opening when it smells coon.

And for those of you that say you KNOW when that dog is babbling and when it smells a coon, most of the time, I call BULL CRAP as that statement alone tells me you will minus that dog when you feel the need to do so regardless of what it is ACTUALLY doing. SHAMEFUL set of rules to play by!!!!!!

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Posted by ov_blues on 02-23-2021 04:46 AM:

I’ve said if before and I’ll say it again, the only semi fair rule that I have ever ran under was AKC’s strike/babbling rule. You can’t strike in the first minute unless immediately followed by a tree call. More than one dog opening at the end of the minute and they go in for 50, any other dog/s after that go in for 25. No dogs opening at the minute or under then normal 100,75,50, & 25. Now that it is just win your cast it wouldn’t affect placement of high score like it would have before, just might cost someone for the performance placements. However if a person had an honest strike dog and drew a couple babblers it wouldn’t hurt their overall score any and would give them a better chance to win the cast because it would take the babblers advantage of the strike points away.

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Posted by River Birch Run on 02-23-2021 12:59 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Rocketman55
Well isn't this a wonderful set of rules to be discussing. The truth is, (with these new rules) It doesn't matter what type of strike dog you have worked your whole life to maintain, what NOW matters is what the rest of the cast NEEDS TO HAVE HAPPEN in order to beat you, that now matters.

Yes it is a SAD DAY when members of the cast can punish a dog for opening when it smells coon.

And for those of you that say you KNOW when that dog is babbling and when it smells a coon, most of the time, I call BULL CRAP as that statement alone tells me you will minus that dog when you feel the need to do so regardless of what it is ACTUALLY doing. SHAMEFUL set of rules to play by!!!!!!

LOL and this statement tells what kinda dogs you hunt!!!!

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-23-2021 01:15 PM:

Quitting a track.....

Dogs can quit or switch tracks all night if they want to and not get minused for it. There is nothing wrong with switching tracks.

The rule says dog gets minused if it quit its track and comes in.

Why is that so hard to understand? A dog can start on a bad track and decide to quit it and find a better one. A dog can run a deer and switch to a coon. As long as they don't shut up for 8 minutes or come back to the cast, it is all right. It always has been and always will be that way. Get over it.

Posted by K. Singletary on 02-23-2021 04:32 PM:

I find it quite humorous, that some seem to think that a coon has walked every single place they cut their dog.

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Posted by Bob Gleason on 02-23-2021 09:26 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Quitting a track.....

Dogs can quit or switch tracks all night if they want to and not get minused for it. There is nothing wrong with switching tracks.

The rule says dog gets minused if it quit its track and comes in.

Why is that so hard to understand? A dog can start on a bad track and decide to quit it and find a better one. A dog can run a deer and switch to a coon. As long as they don't shut up for 8 minutes or come back to the cast, it is all right. It always has been and always will be that way. Get over it.

Pretty obvious that when a dog shuts it's mouth and does a complete 360 and never says word till it gets to a the tree that another dog made.... it has left the so called track it was working . (CLASSIC ME TOO DOG ) This dog didn't switch tracks. I'm over it. and I'm not crying because I lost the cast because I didn't. How about you face reality

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Posted by harleydan1956 on 02-23-2021 11:41 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by K. Singletary
I find it quite humorous, that some seem to think that a coon has walked every single place they cut their dog.

Come on up. We have treed as high as16 singles a night. So, yeah... Alot of times they do

Posted by River Birch Run on 02-24-2021 12:53 PM:

I live in North central OH, Thats why you cut dogs from the road, 1/4 of a mile from the woods with lights blasting on them. The handler that crys about it is the one packing the babble mouth, ghost striker.

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