UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- Intelligence? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928530057)

.

After watching the response of people the past two months with the issues this Country has. I don't think people have displayed enough of their own intelligence to be able to past judgement on a dog.

Throw in the kennel blind, jealous, egotistical, aspect of owning dogs.

"The Proof is in the Pudding" It is kind of like the question. Is a GMC Truck better than a Chevy truck. It depends on which one you own. Listen to all the answers you get on that and then see if you have faith in someone figuring if a dog has intelligence. If they own it they think it is smart. Because we quit culling hounds. Now all dogs are smart. That is how we justify keeping them around.

We have to just put the "Coon" back into coonhunting. Coon in a tree wins hunts. Coon in a tree makes the owner happy. Coon in a tree goes a long ways in making everything work out. When actually the dog is just doing what its genetics designed him to do. A fox hound that runs fox and not deer. Is he intelligent or just genetically designed to run fox. A coonhound that naturally won't run deer. Is he intelligent or just genetically designed to run coon. If you are going to hang a label of intelligence on a hound. Please just make sure it aligns itself with what the dog is suppose to do. If you had a Coon Hound bred dog and it was the best quail dog in the Country. That dog might be labeled the most intelligent dog in the State. But it has failed its genetic breeding purpose totally. Breeding that smart hound to bird dogs will mess things up. Genetics first. Environment second. Training third. If you have to do to much training, look for a flaw in the Genetics. Genetics won't lie as it is the foundation. Trainers fool themselves. Because their EGO is bigger that the dogs. You can have all the dogs you want that you labeled intelligent. I just want the one that can put a coon on the limb in spite of all my shortcomings as a trainer.

Lets go back to the jungle for a minute. Elephants will walk through the jungle and naturally or Genetically follow one another with their Trunk holding on to he Tail with the elephant in front of it. You go to the circus and you seen elephants going around the ring doing that. Then you see one elephant or several standing on their heads in the center of the ring. People cheer at how well they are trained. The training involved two things. Getting the elephants to walk around the ring and then standing on their head. People think and wonder how they get them to grasp the elephant in front of them tail with their trunk. That is natural, no training needed. Coon Hound owners are the same way. Most don't understand the natural things designed by their genetics the dog should bring to the table. It is not all amazing feats of wonder when a coon hound does something. The foundation is genetically based. The trainer just brings it out and allows the dog to perform. If you have to train the dog to tree. Your genetics are lacking. If you have to train a dog not to be mean, your genetics are lacking. If you have to beat a dog to make it hunt, your genetics are lacking. We need to stop looking for intelligence so we can train a dog. Start looking for and learn to spot genetic ability that only needs to be unleashed in a controlled, disciplined way. Then you have a good dog that will reproduce.

__________________
www.ConkeysOutdoors.com
"Boss Lights"

Bruce...you are right about the end result...getting coons in the tree and staying treed...

That is true yet very simple...I strongly believe in understanding what makes a great hunting dog...

We can not argue the fact that the better the handler understands how a dog thinks the better the handler or dog man or woman...

On the elephants...true, their are natural traits that makes it easier to train the elephants...but there are critical steps to take...your not going to put ten wild elephants in the circus and expect them to grab each other’s tail and go single file in the circus arena...

__________________
Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

.

Ruben you got one of my points exactly. The elephants are doing two things. Trained to be go into the ring and go around in circles. They grab the elephant in front of them by the tali because it is natural. Done in the wild and genetically based. Now here is the important. The people watching are more impressed with how they trained the elephants to grab the others tail. The audience missed what the elephants are suppose to do and what they are trained to do. Coon dog people are the same. They confuse what a dog should do naturally and what they are trained to do which is being handled When your training time is spent teaching a dog what it should do automatically. Your wasting time.

__________________
www.ConkeysOutdoors.com
"Boss Lights"

Bruce/Rueben

I enjoy both of your posts and agree with most of what you guys are saying. As a matter of fact, I have been saying the same thing. Natural instincts are notatrained behavior, it's already there. Intelligence helps some animals to refine those natural instincts to a higher degree than other animals. As Bruce mentioned the thing about elephants and folks confusing natural instinct as training, a lot of folks do the same thing with other animals. Knowing what is natural and what is training is essential to get the very best out of a animal. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

High Intelligence

I don't pick for high intelligence because it is easier to train them. That's of secondary importance. A highly intelligent dog continues to improve on their natural ability to tree a coon until they die or physically cant perform. A dog of average intelligence with superior natural ability is limited as to how good they can get no matter how much they are hunted.

Ken Risley

I agree my friend. As much as I dislike using human concepts or terminology to animals, a animal with high intelligence is akin to a human with high intelligence in that both are still learning until they die. Its amazing just how smart some animals are, they are a pleasure to be around. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Re: High Intelligence

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kler Kry
I don't pick for high intelligence because it is easier to train them. That's of secondary importance. A highly intelligent dog continues to improve on their natural ability to tree a coon until they die or physically cant perform. A dog of average intelligence with superior natural ability is limited as to how good they can get no matter how much they are hunted.

---

__________________
Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

It does not take a smart woman to cook, but the smart ones make it taste better !!
Same with hounds .

__________________
___________________________
<<< SMALL TOWN ENGLISH KENNELS >>>

* GRNTCH PKC CH SMALL TOWN LONE SURVIVOR "LONER" DNA-VIP
(GRNTCH Cabin Creek Rowdy semen X GRNTCH CH Lonesome Dove Lori)
----- Chilled semen available, 463 million total sperm per collection sent - Quality Documented & Guaranteed as of 6-15-24 -----

-#6 Top10 REPRODUCERS LIST July 2025

-English Days 2020 - 3rd place Fri / High Scoring male & 1st place Sat night
-2021 UKC World TOP 100
-2022 TOC Qualified
-2022 UKC World Qualified
-2023 UKC World Qualified
-2023 PKC World Quarter Finalist TOP 105
- For more on Loner, Go listen to Episode #1 on The Coonhound Collective podcast on Spotify.


* GRNTCH CH LONESOME DOVE LORI ( 2018 UKC World top 25 ) World Qualified 3 years straight [ double bred , 2X WLD CH Eng Fem GRNTCH Backroads Rosie ]

* GRNTCH CH SMALL TOWN BINGO STAR DNA-VIP ( 2019 Winter Classic 2nd place ) [ HOF GRNTCH Wilcox Thunder Bingo X Dual Grand Tree Rockin' Nelly ]
(( Star is the Dam to 2021 Southern Eng Days High Scoring Male & Overall Winner ))

* NTCH SMALL TOWN ONCE IN A BLUE MOON ( Loner X Star )


- Live breeding doesn't dictate the future success of a puppy any more than a frozen breeding does.

+ I am the Wretch the song refers to

Toad Hill

What a great analogy! Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses