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-- Buck skin plott??? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928526214)

Oh my goodness Mr Conkey, have you not considered that those Redbone breeders might have been breeding for exceptional pleasure hounds and not competition dogs? While the walker and English breeders were breeding for dogs that won hunts and got titles, those Redbone breeders were breeding for dogs that were a pleasure to hunt.
And Mr Clovis, If every Redbone man you knew was saying that the tide had turned, you didn't know many Redbone men.

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Richard I did consider that. But actually considered that more in the plott breed than I did in the redbone breed. If the data is studied carefully you will see that only half the pups from the top plott studs were registered. That means as you stated. Most were going to hunting homes and not competition homes. I hope they made good ones.

Here is my Buckskin Plott pup from about 45 years ago. Genetics as good as the plott breed had at that time and better looking than most redbones. The best of both worlds in one pup. But the wisdom of the breed leaders at that time said we can't allow that. LOL

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www.ConkeysOutdoors.com
"Boss Lights"

Plotts

Folks what about all the white still on some of the plotts you see brindle is a dominant color and you see white feet toes also white under the bellies these are crossbred dogs to me there's no way a plotts with generations of brindle dogs behind them should have that much white still showing anybody with any common sense knows what's going on

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Richard the truth is. I am probably more frustrated with the breeders of other breeds than I am the Redbone Breeders and Plott Breeders. If only a red dog is what you want then YES you have to put restrictions on the gene pool. Same thing with the brindle plott. Nothing really wrong with making that decision. But you live with the outcome. Not saying there are not enough quality pups to keep a smaller group of followers happy. But Breeders should look at and see what limiting the gene pool or following the pattern of limiting the gene pool accomplished in those two breeds. A lot more pleasure dogs than competition dogs.

Here is what frustrates me and I feel the reason is for personal recognition over quality from the breeders. Take walkers or English or blues. Many actually limit the gene pool by selfish reasons and breed from stock with their names on the papers.
The more you breed the same family of dogs you are doing the same thing that breeding for color has done to the redbones and plotts. So you end up with all these crazy walkers, etc. Breeding is not for the faint of heart. You have to have a vision and understanding. Most results are not in a litter or the first generation. Most time the second generation has the results you wanted to see in the first generation. You just then carefully have to move forward but not so tight that your breeding yourself into a hole. Anything that limits the gene pool hurts a single breeding program or a breed over a period of time. Don't take my word for it. Study data that has been provided over the years.

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www.ConkeysOutdoors.com
"Boss Lights"

Bruce: That was a good looking pup and I agree with your logic on breeding.

I'm all for keeping a breed of dog pure, just my preference. But, if breeding a good registered plott to a good registered plott creates some buckskins here and there, I don't see why not breed good to good even it was the buckskin that turned out to be good. Hopefully now that x-breeds are able to be registered, people won't feel the need to try and "create" buckskin with crossing then register as plott.

"IF" buckskin was bred to buckskin couldn't they still throw full litter of brindle pups, like labs throwing off colors?

Now Mr. Lambert you know I don't know too many Redbone men it would be impossible to know more than 4 in Arkansas.

Clovis

Arguing with a Red Bone man is like kissing your sister, not much fun is it? Mr. Lambert suggests that the goal is producing pleasure dogs over competition dogs that win, I say that the goal should be both in the same dog. A dog that's a pleasure to hunt every night, but still a winner in competition. All of the top coon dogs that I have owned and/or hunted with were both. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

mr richards

now mr dave you know your asking to much out of a pure red bone!!!! lol.

mr richards

now mr dave you know your asking to much out of a pure red bone!!!! lol.

100%hunter

You may be right....Lol. Seriously, I have seen and hunted with a couple decent red bones, but more of a pleasure dog than competition dog. I liked their mouth track and tree, but the hustle just was not there. It takes more than just treeing a coon to suit me. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Re: Clovis

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dave Richards
[B]Arguing with a Red Bone man is like kissing your sister, not much fun is it?




Didn’t have no sister but had a bunch of pretty cousins lol.



Tar

mr richards

i agree on a couple, maybe that's why they were crossed on the plott's to try and get more hustle, should have used a walker for that buuuut would have to explain the color. lmbo

How timely this is. I always thought that a bucksin Plott was like a buckskin horse. Last night I pulled up to a hunting spot and there was a truck there and a couple of Plott men. One of them was leading the prettiest Redbone. When I started making fun of him, he said that it was a buckskin Plott. Why do they call them buckskin when they are red? Now I see what all of the fuss is. Pleasure hunting is one thing but I can not imagine why in the world a Plott man would want to show up at a hunt with a red dog. It would be like a Redbone man showing up with a black and tan colored Redbone.

Richard it wasn't a buckskin plott. It was really a redbone. He was just ashamed to admit it.

Mr tar

x2

Mr. Lambert

I have seen buckskin Plotts and NEVER did one look like a Red Bone, they just took you snipe hunting without any snipe. Lol. Dave p.s. a true buckskin Plotts is a light yellow buff color, darker red indicates red bone infusion in the pedigree, ALL the old timers know this.

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

With buckskin and black both in the breed I think there is obviously going to be some saddleback black and tans start showing up. No brindle just a saddleback hound. Now these dogs are not solid black or buckskin or brindle so would they be allowed to be registered ?

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Dennis Bockelman
California,MO

A houndsmans drive is not the thrill of the kill it's the sound of the hound !!!

Stonehill, the color your are talking about has been around for many years most people call them a hi tan color .

Blackjackplott

Seeing that your a plott person, would you please share your thoughts and opinions of the original post?? Would be nice to hear from a plott person on these issues although the walker, redbone, etc guys have had interesting input so far.

Oh my goodness, can you register a high tan Plott now and call it a buckskin?

If there were any buckskin plotts that were that good around someone would of already registered it x breed and got it in the hunts prior to the rule changes. At least that is what i would have done. I pleasure and competition hunts plotts, when someone has a buckskin that starts winning consistently I wouldn't have any problem breeding a female to him. But why would you try to find a buckskin when there are dogs around that have won a ton like logan or copper. Think about the plott breed as a pool. I'd say in ALL the plotts that are out there maybe 15-20% will actually consistently tree coons on their own. Then there is probably only one buckskin plott out of every 15 litters of pups or more probably. So your chances of getting a buckskin plott that will tree a coon is low low. It's just the nature of the breed.

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601-916-2876

Gpent24

That all sounds legit and makes sense but here's my dilemma: I put a deposit for 1st pick female, litter was born with 3 females(2 of which were buckskin), so chances are the best pick may not be brindle. I'm looking for talent not color(in plotts) and being new to the breed I was wondering what the different thoughts would be.

what line of plotts is this litter out of. I don't know many lines that throw many buckskin consistently.

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601-916-2876

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The following post speaks volumes to me and I think others should probably dig deeper into what is being said.
[bIf there were any buckskin plotts that were that good around someone would of already registered it x breed and got it in the hunts prior to the rule changes. At least that is what i would have done. I pleasure and competition hunts plotts, when someone has a buckskin that starts winning consistently I wouldn't have any problem breeding a female to him. But why would you try to find a buckskin when there are dogs around that have won a ton like logan or copper. Think about the plott breed as a pool. I'd say in ALL the plotts that are out there maybe 15-20% will actually consistently tree coons on their own. Then there is probably only one buckskin plott out of every 15 litters of pups or more probably. So your chances of getting a buckskin plott that will tree a coon is low low. It's just the nature of the breed.[/b]

That is speaking from the view point of today. With all respect the leaders of the Plott breed made their decisions 60 years ago or more to eliminate the Buckskin Plott. I am not questioning if that was right or wrong but it was the path they wanted to follow.
But think about this. When the Buck Skins were eliminated from the breeding pool. What percentage of decent dogs went with them. Another way of saying it if this was 60 years ago is. Eliminating Buck Skins that had a certain percentage of decent dogs back then. Did you throw out the baby with the bath water and lower the positive gene pool of the plotts that would have been carried on as buck skins.

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www.ConkeysOutdoors.com
"Boss Lights"

Gpent24

quote:

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Originally posted by gpent24
what line of plotts is this litter out of. I don't know many lines that throw many buckskin consistently.

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