UKC Forums - Stay or Leave (minus or scratch)

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-- Stay or Leave (minus or scratch) (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928524734)

Posted by Charles Pullen on 12-02-2019 03:58 PM:

I asked the same question years ago and had about 4 or 5 pages of responses. About 99% said “ stay “ no matter what . Even if the woods is on fire they better stay . You caint win if they leave etc etc . I disagree myself , I think way to much of a hound that I have raised and train to stay and get cut up or turn out later to get mean their self . Having a good name is winning to me .

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Posted by 2nd Mac on 12-02-2019 04:26 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Charles Pullen
I asked the same question years ago and had about 4 or 5 pages of responses. About 99% said “ stay “ no matter what . Even if the woods is on fire they better stay . You caint win if they leave etc etc . I disagree myself , I think way to much of a hound that I have raised and train to stay and get cut up or turn out later to get mean their self . Having a good name is winning to me .

Posted by johnny reb on 12-02-2019 04:36 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
If it meant getting thrown out of school for the year and for life on your second offense I would tell him to walk away. If he could put a leash on and get away with it I would tell him to fight.

A man can only walk so much and so far. There comes a time when you’ve got to stop walking. You don’t have to quit walking during school. After school works just as good. Those that constantly walk will have to do it to the end.

Posted by Team Mafia 2 on 12-03-2019 03:16 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
We're raising and training dogs to trail and tree coons. There should never be a reason for a dog to have to prove he's not a coward.

Have you ever had Coyotes run a dog off a tree? Last winter I was pleasure hunting with my 6 year old son and on our way to the tree a coyote came in and tried running the dog off. The dog went from chopping to roaring and then got quite for a minute or so and then went back to treeing again. No way would the 2 have caught him. We get there and there is a dead Coyote gyp about 2 feet from the tree and he had a coon over his head.
I sold Demon some guys in Texas and quickly regretted it and bought him back. While they had him he got attacked by hogs at the tree. When they got there he had his butt to the tree looking up treeing and his guts were hanging out. If they don’t have the kind of heart and stay power I just described they absolutely will not make the cut around Here. I will walk to the end of the world if they get treed. I expect for them to be there when I get there.

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Posted by Tim Green on 12-03-2019 03:32 AM:

Thanks everyone. I truly appreciate your perspectives. I myself want mine to stay. Move around, do what you need to do, but stay.

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Posted by Donnie Stevens on 12-03-2019 04:29 AM:

Not much I hate worse then a dog leaving a tree but I don't like walking to trees with my head cocked sideways waiting for a dog fight to start. And I won't hunt one that makes me wonder if either one is gonna happen. There's a fine line. If I was running the roads like I used to they'd have to be a little tougher then they need to be around here. Waiting for that bomb to go off takes all the fun out of it for me maybe I'm getting old lol

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Posted by jdgher on 12-03-2019 05:02 AM:

Go by the rules.

A dog that leaves trees won't work out very good, if competition hunted much. It's a fine line between staying under pressure and getting into dog fights. The best dogs can take some heat, but stay in the kitchen without fighting.
Follow the rules, scratch them and write them up, don't let people withdraw and go without a write up. If your dog is involved scratch and write it up. If your dog is written up a few times, you probably need to be looking for a new dog.
Consider this: If 2 dogs are treed and a fight breaks out, one or both of them is aggressive. This is your chance to start the process of getting a mean dog out of the hunts. Write them up.
Anything short of a "fight", that's going to happen sometimes. You should hunt a dog that can take some pressure and keep on treeing.
We can want it to be different, but that is how it is in competition.

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Posted by Preacher Tom on 12-03-2019 04:49 PM:

Well you guys wouldn't like my dog. This happened last night and was a first for me. Dog trailed in and treed like he's supposed to. About two minutes and he quit. Couldn't figure it out so I walked to where he was treed. Before I got there the smell of skunk was very strong. Looked at the tree and the coon was there. Young dog I had along had a little smell of skunk so I think he ran over it right near the tree. My old dog liked skunks when he was young and I broke him off them HARD. Won't go within 50 yards of one if he knows it's there. Only thing I can figure is he thought he was in trouble and got out of Dodge. Only mean dog I ever had him with he just kept moving around the tree.

I will say this I won't hunt any dog that I wouldn't want to take a just started pup with. Not with my buddy or in competition. I don't like an ill, rough, mean or however you call it, dog.

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Posted by Tim Green on 12-03-2019 09:49 PM:

Is there a difference between I’ll, mean, rough, grouchy, etc and defending yourself? Also, can defending yourself enough causes your dog to be on the offensive?

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Posted by ringtail on 12-05-2019 01:27 AM:

Just my opinion......

Take a minus.

I am not talking about leaving just because another dog is pushy (in that case mine needs to give him room and stay). If another dog is a sure enough gator and giving it some room isn't enough, go ahead and get away from him. If it is far enough back to take minus or leave all together, so be it.

I'd rather take a minus, than pay a vet bill.

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Posted by jerrod leathers on 12-05-2019 05:27 AM:

Re: Story time lol

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
I probly told this one before back when we had judges for champion cast. I pleasure hunted regular with a little dog called troubles all the time face barken , hide pinchen little pain in the butt I had a dog called booger a lot down here will remember didn’t have a mean bone. Father in law told the man one of these nights booger is going to get tired of that and just like that it was on like donkey Kong booger shook him a loose and he never done him like that again.

Well on to the hunt I was the judge troubles drew a big Black and Tan named sun valley butch. Troubles weighed about 45 lbs when we got to the tree ole butch had troubles whole head in his mouth still treeing all 4 of troubles feet was off the ground. Well troubles withdrew they asked me what now ?

I said cut um loose boys lol.

Tar

Tar, rumor goes that Sun Valley Butch was part Pit Bull. Your story makes me want to believe that story.

Posted by yadkintar on 12-05-2019 12:10 PM:

Re: Re: Story time lol

quote:
Originally posted by jerrod leathers
Tar, rumor goes that Sun Valley Butch was part Pit Bull. Your story makes me want to believe that story.

That’s about the time period the adjusting for position rule in the $$$ hunts was defined. We used to call it the let um rumble rule walk a little ways the long way around and let them get finished adjusting lol.

Tar

Posted by Donnie Stevens on 12-05-2019 03:24 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Story time lol

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
. We used to call it the let um rumble rule walk a little ways the long way around and let them get finished adjusting lol.

Tar

I was on a Purina points cast one night in Ohio first dump of the night dogs all piled up on a tree 50 yards from the cast. About a min things started getting rough one fella says we better get in there the judge says I don't think we wanna go in right now. Another min passes things settle down judge says now we can go in lol.

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Posted by 100%hunter on 12-05-2019 03:36 PM:

just a thought!!!

Young boy{12/13} years old buys a pup raises and trains this pup till about 17/18 months old gets drawn out in that cast ya'll described his dog gets cut up bad leaves the tree goes to the vet and sets the pup back or ruins the pup have we helped the future of our sport by not going by the RULES????

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 12-05-2019 08:13 PM:

Re: just a thought!!!

quote:
Originally posted by 100%hunter
Young boy{12/13} years old buys a pup raises and trains this pup till about 17/18 months old gets drawn out in that cast ya'll described his dog gets cut up bad leaves the tree goes to the vet and sets the pup back or ruins the pup have we helped the future of our sport by not going by the RULES????

Seriously, in your years of coonhunting how many dogs have you had that have required a trip to the vet because of injury from another dog in a hunt?
I've been married to Cheyenne now for over 27 years and he has hunted in hundreds of cast in that span of time and never once have we had one injured by another dog that required a trip to the vet. I'm not saying it never ever happens but this is an extremely rare occurrence. Dogs are much more likely to be injured by many other things (cars, fences, hogs snakes etc, ect).
I for one have had eough of the sky is falling attitude.

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Posted by nitehunter2004 on 12-06-2019 12:42 AM:

Re: Re: just a thought!!!

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
Seriously, in your years of coonhunting how many dogs have you had that have required a trip to the vet because of injury from another dog in a hunt?
I've been married to Cheyenne now for over 27 years and he has hunted in hundreds of cast in that span of time and never once have we had one injured by another dog that required a trip to the vet. I'm not saying it never ever happens but this is an extremely rare occurrence. Dogs are much more likely to be injured by many other things (cars, fences, hogs snakes etc, ect).
I for one have had eough of the sky is falling attitude.

Iv been to the vet $780 bucks, One time is One time to many!
Congrats 27 years is an accomplishment in today’s world, October was my 39th anniversary.

Posted by 100%hunter on 12-06-2019 02:09 AM:

The sky is not falling club ATTENDANCE IS;jmo turning a blind eye is not the answer.

Posted by Preacher Tom on 12-06-2019 02:16 AM:

This is a little off topic because it doesn't involve competition hunting but years ago when the original Hickory Nut Harry was the hottest thing going I had a chance to get a pup out of him (or at least was supposed to be, back then you never knew for sure). At about one year old he got after a coon in a slew full of cattails and it just flipped his switch. From that night on he was a coon dog. But about three weeks later maybe had treed 15 coon (not all by himself) I went to the tree and he was treeing with his back to the tree and daring any dog to come in. And when one tried he would just explode at them. Left him in the woods that night with lead poisoning. Maybe there was something to try but I had no idea what it was. He was a mean dog. He wasn't looking to just push them around. He wanted ahold of them. I have no use for a dog like that.

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Posted by 100%hunter on 12-06-2019 02:47 AM:

Preacher Tom

30+ years ago i went coon hunting my first time my buddy had a 60 pound grade walker named Luke i had a 70 pound pit bull they hunted and treed together with no problem because we did not allow any aggression because we were hunting for the love of it and fellowship with friends.like you did, to fix a problem is easy eliminate the problem.

Posted by pamjohnson on 12-06-2019 02:24 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Preacher Tom
This is a little off topic because it doesn't involve competition hunting but years ago when the original Hickory Nut Harry was the hottest thing going I had a chance to get a pup out of him (or at least was supposed to be, back then you never knew for sure). At about one year old he got after a coon in a slew full of cattails and it just flipped his switch. From that night on he was a coon dog. But about three weeks later maybe had treed 15 coon (not all by himself) I went to the tree and he was treeing with his back to the tree and daring any dog to come in. And when one tried he would just explode at them. Left him in the woods that night with lead poisoning. Maybe there was something to try but I had no idea what it was. He was a mean dog. He wasn't looking to just push them around. He wanted ahold of them. I have no use for a dog like that.

2 years ago I was in a competition hunt that went much like your talking about. 3 dog cast, first tree 2 dogs on one tree with the coon the other dog jealous treed slick. 2nd tree all three dogs was on but mine was sitting back off the tree, never a good sign. By the 3rd tree 1 dog treeing, 1 with his butt to the tree and my dog circling the tree from a fair distance. We called time out to move. I was winning the cast with 200+ ahead of the rest and I informed them all about the behavior of the dogs as we left the tree. The owner/hander off the aggressive dog was a kid and his gr pa was spectating. We got to the next spot. They was not going to withdraw even though they had over 300- so I withdrew. After recast the other dog was carried back to the truck with 20 minutes left to hunt all was withdrew.
P S no vet needed just a week to recoup, the sky didn't fall and never will.

Posted by Tim Green on 12-06-2019 04:09 PM:

Re: Re: Re: just a thought!!!

quote:
Originally posted by nitehunter2004
Iv been to the vet $780 bucks, One time is One time to many!
Congrats 27 years is an accomplishment in today’s world, October was my 39th anniversary.

Was that Vet visit after your trip to a Oklahoma last year?

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Posted by Josh Michaelis on 12-06-2019 04:29 PM:

Where are all these mean dogs everyone is always complaining about? What are there names and who is taking them to the hunts?

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Posted by novicane65 on 12-06-2019 04:37 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
Where are all these mean dogs everyone is always complaining about? What are there names and who is taking them to the hunts?

According to a bunch, you and I for 2. Because we hunt the other registries,we have mean dogs.

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Posted by nitehunter2004 on 12-06-2019 04:54 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: just a thought!!!

quote:
Originally posted by Tim Green
Was that Vet visit after your trip to a Oklahoma last year?

I think That one cost around $500, still think that was a fence but not 100% sure.
Why do you ask? You know something I don’t? I do know The dog in question was sold a few days later.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 12-06-2019 05:14 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
They was not going to withdraw even though they had over 300- so I withdrew. After recast the other dog was carried back to the truck with 20 minutes left to hunt all was withdrew.
P S no vet needed just a week to recoup, the sky didn't fall and never will.

Therein lies part of the problem. Why did you not scratch the agressive dog? When you don't scratch them, you are allowing them to keep on entering hunts and causing problems. If a handler thinks that he can get away with it, he will keep on hunting the dog.

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