UKC Forums - New Rule On Scratched For Fighting Question

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UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- New Rule On Scratched For Fighting Question (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928524675)

Posted by shadinc on 12-02-2019 04:22 AM:

Are UKC registered Pit Bulls allowed in nite hunts? Asking for a friend.

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Posted by Pat Bizich on 12-02-2019 07:09 AM:

It's All in the wording LOL.
IF the rule said no dog singular usage .
It says DOG(S) on leash not DOG .
I'm being bone headed. LOL
Problem is these guys that passed/worded these rules never thought about the potential conflicts.
Just like the rule that was passed and then later rescinded about minus of dogs coming in late to trees with a coon seen.

Seriously though I got a question.
You guys that are so all fired up about how wonderful it is this rule passed giving these gripey nasty mean dogs a break to not get scratched for fighting.
You all say wow I never ran into but a few mean dogs in all my years hunting in hunts.
WHY ARE YOU ALL SO FIRED UP TO HAVE WANTED THIS TYPE RULE PASSED TO PROTECT NON EXISTING MEAN DOGS THAT YOU NEVER SEE COME TO HUNTS?????

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Posted by Pat Bizich on 12-02-2019 07:38 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Team Mafia 2
Dog B is Scratched dog A is in the clear.

So lets say you saw that Dog A started the fight. Would you feel satisfaction that Dog A gets to rock on in the rest of the hunt if you owned Dog B ?

If this is UKC 's official ruling. So be it. Don't mean I have to like it.
I still stick by my gut though to fairness "BOTH" dogs should have to be handled and on a leash to escape a scratch.

Posted by Lance Laymon on 12-02-2019 09:20 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jack Bingham
Wow. Is all I can say. I'd like to know where all these mean dogs are. I hunt both KFC's primarily pkc. I hunt all over the country. I've seen maybe 3-4 mean dogs in the last 10 yrs. And most were in ukc and them dogs didn't hunt pkc. If your having that many dog fights when your in a hunt you better look at what's on the end of your lead.

As far as wanting an official answer to the question on this thread. If you can read its in the rules. YOU CANNOT SCRATCH A DOG THAT'S ON THE LEASH.

You sir are one luck man if youve only drawn 4 mean dogs in 10 year. Ive seen that many in one cast any give weekend. This should be coonhunting not dog fighting. I say bar the dog and suspend owner. Needs to be stopped

Posted by Josh Michaelis on 12-02-2019 09:30 AM:

You cant scratch them if they are on a leash. Thats all there is to it. The dog on the leash can not be scratched. If Dog B comes up to a dog leashed away from a tree it is probably the aggressor anyways.

This may happen once every 5,000 casts. No rule can prepare for fluke situations, so lets just stop worrying about something 99.9% of us will never have happen to us.

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Posted by novicane65 on 12-02-2019 12:20 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Pat Bizich
It's All in the wording LOL.
IF the rule said no dog singular usage .
It says DOG(S) on leash not DOG .
I'm being bone headed. LOL
Problem is these guys that passed/worded these rules never thought about the potential conflicts.
Just like the rule that was passed and then later rescinded about minus of dogs coming in late to trees with a coon seen.

Seriously though I got a question.
You guys that are so all fired up about how wonderful it is this rule passed giving these gripey nasty mean dogs a break to not get scratched for fighting.
You all say wow I never ran into but a few mean dogs in all my years hunting in hunts.
WHY ARE YOU ALL SO FIRED UP TO HAVE WANTED THIS TYPE RULE PASSED TO PROTECT NON EXISTING MEAN DOGS THAT YOU NEVER SEE COME TO HUNTS?????

by your wording and spelling UKC's wording and spelling is very clear by them using dog(s) it covers 1 dog on leash or multiple dogs on leash. If they only wanted it when the dogs in the cast were on leash it wouldn't have the parentheses around the s, it would just be worded dogs not dog(s). And they obviously did think about the conflicts. Otherwise they wouldn't have needed to rewrite most of the rules. They could've done amendments like back in the 90's and early 2000's that you had to ink out all the garbage wording to get the rules. And I still think that a dog coming into a tree late needs to take minus.

I think a big issue is everyone's definition of mean is a little different. Just like everyone's definition of a coondawg is different. My dogs aren't nasty or mean. They've been hunted with several different dogs and got along just fine. So my theory is if you keep seeing this type of dog you should probably look at what you're leading around.

How many dogs did you scratch last year for fighting and never seen any of it?

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Posted by Dave Richards on 12-02-2019 01:14 PM:

Eric DePue

Your response was correct, UKC using dog(s) meant exactly that a dog or dogs, that's exactly what using ( ) means and is an accepted practice in all legal documents. Dave

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Posted by Pat Bizich on 12-02-2019 02:14 PM:

I am the one that added the (S) not UKC. LOL
You see.You all already got the idea that it means the difference in wording if one dog gets to start a fight and is allowed to get away with it.
You all fell right into that one.LOL

This is UKC version . No ( ) around dogs. Scratched for Fighting Change rule to scratch dogs for fighting or attempting to fight...…. rule will prevent dogs from being scratched while...…... on the leash

I ask again ANYONE
Explain to me if there is not a problem with mean dogs being entered in a hunt that need "PROTECTED" ( which is exactly what this rule does.Protects nasty gripey mean dogs from getting scratched) WHY WAS THIS RULE NEEDED???
ANYONE???
Make me a believer.

"shadinc
Are UKC registered Pit Bulls allowed in nite hunts? Asking for a friend."
I think that is what I shall call this new rule when I have to explain to a cast why you can't scratch one dog for fighting but you must scratch the second one.
"THE PITBULL RULE"

Posted by yadkintar on 12-02-2019 02:23 PM:

As long as I been in the game we have always had them. The day I give up hunting and after we will still have them.

Sad thing is the guys that bring them to the hunts know they are that way before they enter them. Millions of dogs in the world look for one that trees back off the tree buuuuuut then they want to minus you for being off the tree to far because their dog is cleaning the tree. Been that way long as I remember lol.

Tar

Posted by pamjohnson on 12-02-2019 02:46 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Team Mafia 2
Dog B is Scratched dog A is in the clear.

I don't feel this would be the correct way to score this situation. Nobody saw the aggressor. Farther more 1 dog is leashed which States now scratch.

Posted by johnny reb on 12-02-2019 02:49 PM:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pat Bizich
I am the one that added the (S) not UKC. LOL
You see.You all already got the idea that it means the difference in wording if one dog gets to start a fight and is allowed to get away with it.
You all fell right into that one.LOL

This is UKC version . No ( ) around dogs. Scratched for Fighting Change rule to scratch dogs for fighting or attempting to fight...…. rule will prevent dogs from being scratched while...…... on the leash

I ask again ANYONE
Explain to me if there is not a problem with mean dogs being entered in a hunt that need "PROTECTED" ( which is exactly what this rule does.Protects nasty gripey mean dogs from getting scratched) WHY WAS THIS RULE NEEDED???
ANYONE???
Make me a believer.

"shadinc
Are UKC registered Pit Bulls allowed in nite hunts? Asking for a friend."
I think that is what I shall call this new rule when I have to explain to a cast why you can't scratch one dog for fighting but you must scratch the second one.
"THE PITBULL RULE" [/QUOTE

I know the way the rules were at one point a dog could be scratched before you even left the club. You could put 2 dogs in a box and if they started sorting out for position you could be scratched. The way the rule was worded about under authority of judge.

Posted by shadinc on 12-02-2019 02:49 PM:

Anyhow, what does being on a leash have to do with it? Exactly what is the rationale behind this thinking? In a post a while back some people said they don't like to bring their dogs in for a picture because they don't get along with other dogs. Are you saying you can't control your dog on a leash two feet from you but when he's 1000 yards away in the dark he's an angel?

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Posted by johnny reb on 12-02-2019 02:55 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jack Bingham
Wow. Is all I can say. I'd like to know where all these mean dogs are. I hunt both KFC's primarily pkc. I hunt all over the country. I've seen maybe 3-4 mean dogs in the last 10 yrs. And most were in ukc and them dogs didn't hunt pkc. If your having that many dog fights when your in a hunt you better look at what's on the end of your lead.

As far as wanting an official answer to the question on this thread. If you can read its in the rules. YOU CANNOT SCRATCH A DOG THAT'S ON THE LEASH.

I have not seen but very few rough dogs in the last 20 yrs. I seen a lot more of what most people would consider rough dogs in the 90’s. I know my definition of a rough tree dog isn’t the same as everyone else’s.

Posted by Josh Michaelis on 12-02-2019 02:57 PM:

Once again, everyone complaining about a rule change is making a mountain out of a molehill.

There are no more, or no less mean dogs going to be in the hunts because of this rule. All it does is prevent an unwarranted scratch.

Just stop crying and wait till Jan 1st, and see for yourself.

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Posted by shadinc on 12-02-2019 03:03 PM:

It's also going to prevent some warranted scratches.

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Posted by johnny reb on 12-02-2019 03:44 PM:

How is it going to prevent a warranted scratch? How many fights are you all having?

Posted by shadinc on 12-02-2019 03:57 PM:

I'm not seeing enough fights to concern myself with changing the fighting rule, but somebody obviously is.

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Posted by johnny reb on 12-02-2019 04:41 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
I'm not seeing enough fights to concern myself with changing the fighting rule, but somebody obviously is.

You will alway have the sky is falling crowd.
Everyone has there own definition of a rough dog.
So what is everyone’s definition of a rough dog that needs scratched? Not UKC definition but what do the different people think is a reason to scratch.

Posted by pamjohnson on 12-02-2019 07:31 PM:

I have only scratched 2 dogs for fighting this year. They was both rolling around and needed pulled off each other. YET 1 handler gave me a hard time over being scratched. Personally I don't think the sky was falling the way the rules were. Dang cry babies wanted it changed though.

Posted by novicane65 on 12-02-2019 08:38 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
I have only scratched 2 dogs for fighting this year. They was both rolling around and needed pulled off each other. YET 1 handler gave me a hard time over being scratched. Personally I don't think the sky was falling the way the rules were. Dang cry babies wanted it changed though.

So how many dogs do you normally scratch a year for fighting?

Posted by Dave Richards on 12-02-2019 09:47 PM:

Fighting dogs

I can't speak for the rest of the country, but in all my years of competition hunting and pleasure hunting, I have seen very few dogs get scratched for fighting. It just was never a problem in these parts, most folks around here would not tolerate a mean dog. Fighting was not tolerated ! Dave

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Posted by Josh Michaelis on 12-02-2019 09:51 PM:

Re: Fighting dogs

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
I can't speak for the rest of the country, but in all my years of competition hunting and pleasure hunting, I have seen very few dogs get scratched for fighting. It just was never a problem in these parts, most folks around here would not tolerate a mean dog. Fighting was not tolerated ! Dave

I don't know as to whether I have EVER seen a dog scratched for fighting. If I did I don't recall it

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Posted by novicane65 on 12-02-2019 10:00 PM:

Re: Re: Fighting dogs

quote:
Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
I don't know as to whether I have EVER seen a dog scratched for fighting. If I did I don't recall it

I haven't seen it. But I have un-pleasure hunted with 1 or 2. But I wouldn't say that mean dogs are prevalent here either.

Posted by yadkintar on 12-02-2019 10:08 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Fighting dogs

quote:
Originally posted by novicane65
I haven't seen it. But I have un-pleasure hunted with 1 or 2. But I wouldn't say that mean dogs are prevalent here either.

I have but it’s been a long , long , long time ago.

Tar

Posted by high ridge on 12-02-2019 11:34 PM:

I haven’t seen a mean dog in 25 years. What UKC needs to do is have a seminar to educate what a mean dog is. I bet 95% of hunters have never saw a mean dog. Head slinging some yaw yaw squalls or a little nippy face bark ain’t a mean dog. I don’t hunt them but I won’t scratch a fellow for toting a hard radical treedog. You get one that meets them dudes 15 feet off the tree and yokes them around the neck shaking them like a rag doll or one of them that has that rear end to the tree daring them to come on in running at whatever shows up they need scratched. The style I described won’t be in very many cast. Must be plenty of them out there I just don’t draw them. Lucky I guess.

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