UKC Forums - Hunt Director

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-- Hunt Director (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928523976)

Posted by Dave Richards on 11-08-2019 08:54 PM:

Tar

Since I learned tarspeak as Mr. Lambert calls it, I know your heart is in the right place regarding UKC, mine is too. I want UKC to be the best KC going, but as I have stated UKC needs to be proactive regarding the hunt clubs, change is needed on their part, there is no valid reason that UKC can not have an official available in Friday and Saturday nights to resolve hunting issues pertaining to our night hunts. Making the Clubs solely responsible is asking way to much, they have a duty to assist, really an obligation. It is in the best interest of both UKC and all of our hunt clubs to work together to insure the success of our Clubs and UKC. Don't pizz on my leg and tell me it's raining. Dave

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Posted by G.W. Harring on 11-10-2019 09:01 PM:

HD hunting

Since the rule on HD & MH should be solely up to UKC to decide, I think UKC will change this rule in 2020 with all the other rule changes. I'd also guess that the fact that you would have to put up $ before a question or panel would be formed would also be a requirement. These go hand in hand and will without a doubt slow down stupid questions.
Also, anyone with an IQ 2pts higher than a turnip can see that it has worked in other KC's for YEARS and it could add $ to UKC's pocket.
I still can't believe this is even being discussed!?!?

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Posted by Dave Richards on 11-10-2019 09:30 PM:

G W. Harring

I hope you are right, but as of now, UKC position has not changed to anyone's knowledge, they stated recently that the hunt director CAN NOT HUNT. I agree with you regarding the IQ part, seems like it would be a no brainer to anyone, as it makes no sense not to let the hunt director hunt. I strongly advocate for the hunt director being able to hunt, I also, advocate for UKC to have an official available during these Friday and Saturday hunts, that makes perfect sense. Having an official available would alleviate the burden that's placed in the hundreds of CLUBS across the country. I strongly believe that this is an obligation of UKC, and really don't see why it has not always been in place. We need someone available during hunt times way more than any other time of the week. It works for the $ KC and would work for UKC. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Posted by Dave Richards on 11-10-2019 11:00 PM:

Tar

Having a UKC OFFICIAL available during hunt times would alleviate a lot of problems. I believe it would give all hunters the confidence that their questions would be answered fairly given access to UKC OFFICIAL opinion and not just based on a MOH OR HUNT DIRECTOR/PANEL DECISION. Yes, we could impose a dollar amount on any hunter wanting UKC'S input if the hunter is wrong. The dollars collected would offset ant extra expenses incurred by UKC for having an official available during hunt times. It certainly makes more sense that UKC have someone available than relying on hundreds of Clubs to resolve the difficult issues/questions that arise. I believe this should have been the practice from day one. UKC should implement this starting in 2020 just like the new rules, make UKC the place to be in competition hunting. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Posted by tommygunner on 11-11-2019 01:20 PM:

Try to get Allen or Tod's cell ph number to call at night about a question , aint gona happen!!!

Posted by Allen / UKC on 11-11-2019 01:30 PM:

Let's have this discussion.

Are the procedures, that are in place for questions and appeals, not working anymore? Do we have any idea how many appeals are actually filed each year to warrant / justify such a proposal?

Posted by Donnie Stevens on 11-11-2019 02:25 PM:

Atta boy Tar.That's the best post you've made in years.

This needs fixed. Call it a policy change instead of a rule change. Call it what ya want but FIX IT

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Posted by pamjohnson on 11-11-2019 02:37 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Allen / UKC
Let's have this discussion.

Are the procedures, that are in place for questions and appeals, not working anymore? Do we have any idea how many appeals are actually filed each year to warrant / justify such a proposal?

the simple answer is no too the 1st question. And the 2nd question we could better ask ukc

Posted by Toad Hill on 11-11-2019 02:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Allen / UKC
Let's have this discussion.

Do we have any idea how many appeals are actually filed each year to warrant / justify such a proposal?

Yes great idea .

How many ?

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Posted by T Felderman on 11-11-2019 02:43 PM:

Appeals

Thank god we don't have these problems where I hunt. I don't think I've ever seen the appeal paperwork.

Heck I don't know why people get worked up. Probably another hunt tomorrow night or wait a week and there will be 2 more.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 11-11-2019 02:53 PM:

Oh my goodness, can you actually have a "club" where only 1 member has the ability to be the hunt director? It sounds like these clubs need a couple more members.

Granted my memory is not that good anymore but I can't remember when a rules question was brought back at our club.

Not too long ago you had to have a licensed MOH. Well clubs complained about that and said that there weren't enough MOH's. So UKC instituted the Hunt Director Policy. Now some are complaining about that. When Hunt Directors are allowed to hunt, what is next? It seems like some are never going to be satisfied.

Posted by Corey Gruver on 11-11-2019 03:04 PM:

The problem is everyone wants to hunt, and no one wants to take a weekend off to referee (so everyone else can hunt).

That means less than qualified people fill the Master of Hounds OR Hunt Director slot. This leads to credibility of the title of MOH to take a nose dive over time.

There is no give and take at the club level anymore... club members wear out one person as an officiate (or use someone that has no clue whats going on) and then when that person is gone or can't be used, complain to UKC about their rules and polices governing what it takes to be an event officiate.

At the end of the day, this is NOT UKC's problem.

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Posted by Allen / UKC on 11-11-2019 03:07 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Toad Hill
Yes great idea .

How many ?

Since we implemented fees to the panel and appeals procedure (2014?), appeals to UKC dropped from 6 per month to, at most, maybe five or six total per year.

Posted by Corey Gruver on 11-11-2019 03:29 PM:

Tar

I'd be interested to hear how many events your club holds per year. UKC / PKC combined.

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 11-11-2019 03:34 PM:

Tarbaby, if your club doesn't have enough guides, why is that UKC's fault? Why would Mr Big $$$ call UKC to complain about your club's lack of guides?

At my club if we don't have enough guides, the Hunt Director just tells someone in a cast where to turn loose and they "guide". With today's Garmin's and Bird's Eye, you only need to know where to turn out. And I have been to a lot of Major Hunts where our guide was not from that area but just had a turn loose spot.

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 11-11-2019 03:45 PM:

Re: Tar

quote:
Originally posted by Corey Gruver
I'd be interested to hear how many events your club holds per year. UKC / PKC combined.

All of us who have clubs should have a say and I have alot of events and we are involved in several clubs along with travelling to many more! Tar is not the only one speaking up!

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Posted by Corey Gruver on 11-11-2019 03:46 PM:

Tar

Are you officiating all of the events in your local area? How many clubs are in your area? How many events are each holding?

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Posted by Corey Gruver on 11-11-2019 03:50 PM:

Re: Re: Tar

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
All of us who have clubs should have a say and I have alot of events and we are involved in several clubs along with travelling to many more! Tar is not the only one speaking up!

I just want to see some hard numbers is all. I see a lot of clubs in our area hold a full schedule of UKC/PKC events each year. That can translate to be over 20 hunts annually. If a club has subpar officiates and/or staff/guides for 20+ hunts a year, then I can completely understand why they would be upset about the rules and policies governing officials at events (Thank the Lord that this has not been a problem in our area).

My point is, its not UKC's problem if the clubs are spreading themselves thin. I understand surplus events = increased revenue in most instances, but this can easily be interpreted as a quality over quantity debate...

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 11-11-2019 04:29 PM:

Jen, do y'all have a problem getting a Hunt Director at your club?

Posted by Richard Lambert on 11-11-2019 04:34 PM:

Then why is she complaining? We don't have a problem getting a Hunt Director. But my wife would if I asked her.

How knowledgeable does a Hunt Director have to be? They don't answer any questions or interpret any rules. They fill out the paperwork and pick a panel if a question comes in. If you have a Hunt Director that knows the rules, then you have lost a good panel member. So don't pick someone for Hunt Director who is knowledgeable enough to sit on a panel.

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 11-11-2019 05:19 PM:

Change rule 12. (c) to read
MOH/HD must be present at all times at any open event with (16) or more entries. All major events including any Purina Points events must have a MOH present on grounds.

Change 3rd sentence in 16(a) to read the following... It may be scored with a question mark (?) to be reviewed by the MOH/panel. A fee of $25 for each question must be paid previous to the question(s) being heard.

16. (b) 3. Change last sentence to read the following...
Any handler not satisfied with the out come retains the right to place a (?) to be reviewed by the MOH/panel. A fee of $25 for each question must be paid previous to the question(s) being heard.

Panels
1. In order to form a panel a $25 Panel Fee must be paid for each question previous to question(s) being heard.
Appeals
3. Appeals must be submitted to the MOH/HD with a fee of $100.

*In the event that a MOH/panel or appeal is ruled in favor of the person placing the question or appeal all fees will be returned. If the MOH/ panel or appeal is ruled against fees will be retained by UKC to be submitted to the youth fund.

There I fixed it...

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 11-11-2019 05:29 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Then why is she complaining? We don't have a problem getting a Hunt Director. But my wife would if I asked her.

How knowledgeable does a Hunt Director have to be? They don't answer any questions or interpret any rules. They fill out the paperwork and pick a panel if a question comes in. If you have a Hunt Director that knows the rules, then you have lost a good panel member. So don't pick someone for Hunt Director who is knowledgeable enough to sit on a panel.

Does it say somewhere that the hunt director can't be on the panel?
I would just like to be able to leave to use the restroom when they have been winterized or run to the grocery store if I forgot something! So far we've never had to ever seat a panel and I couldn't tell you the last time a question ever came back in at our club. I absolutely see why at large events why someone needs to be there for the entirety but at the local level most have very few issues ever.
A policy that if a club has x amount of appeals overturned by UKC their hunt director privilege is revoked.

Posted by Corey Gruver on 11-11-2019 05:32 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
...A policy that if a club has x amount of appeals overturned by UKC their hunt director privilege is revoked.

I love this idea

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Posted by Redneck Mafia on 11-11-2019 05:45 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
I like jens proposal.

Tar

Probably should have wrote the whole thing up late last winter with the rest lol. I knew that hunt director hunting was a proposal already written to be submitted by others. Personally I do not see where UKC needs breed approval for implementing new policy, this is not a hunting rule.

Posted by Corey Gruver on 11-11-2019 05:47 PM:

I can't say I am on board with fee increase for appeal procedures. Yes, it makes sense to do that to eliminate "problem" people working the system, but it makes it unfeasible for the honest, average Joe to further seek justification and/or guidance when it is truly needed.

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