UKC Forums - Rewarding a Dog

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Posted by Ron Ashbaugh on 08-02-2019 01:15 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
It has nothing to do with any of that how many, how often ect ect ect... it is that it is the ultimate reward for a dog. Should they get or need every coon no. That would be a good way to get your dog to return to trees when game was not given. There is a balance in everything. Do you need to give this ultimate reward some to help develope the strongest coon lust in a dog, yes. All prefer it to those sausages and a pat on the head. The best dogs typically have true hatred of coons not just the want to track and tree

Oh I see. A dogs hatred of game is created, developed and maintained by dead coon falling out of trees...boy I'll tell ya that's the advantage of internet forums, you learn something new everyday.

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Posted by Redneck Mafia on 08-02-2019 02:02 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Ron Ashbaugh
Oh I see. A dogs hatred of game is created, developed and maintained by dead coon falling out of trees...boy I'll tell ya that's the advantage of internet forums, you learn something new everyday.

Slow learner. It's what happens after it hits the ground.

Question?? Back in the day of high hide prices and hundreds of coons being harvested to a dog over its lifetime what affect did it have on those dogs?
How many of you owned your once in a lifetime during those times?
Was accuracy an issue within those hounds?

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Posted by Ron Ashbaugh on 08-02-2019 02:16 AM:

Ohhhhh, so you wound them, let the dog get chewed on a little and that makes them hate the coon and become a better dog. So in these dogs it's not a lack of track or tree skills, it's just anger and desire to catch the coon to get back at the coon that bit them 3 days or a month ago.

If you shoot them out dead does it still work or doesn't it make the dog angry or hateful enough?

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Posted by Redneck Mafia on 08-02-2019 02:49 AM:

No there is no need for them to be wounded and no need to be a smart _. Go back and read my post. My whole point is that a coon is a dogs ultimate reward. I also stated that there was no need to shoot every coon how many or how often - balance, that hunters know where the population needs thinned if not disease will do it, they know where the population needs to grow. I stated that hunters are typically the greatest conservationist.

QUOTE]Originally posted by Redneck Mafia

Question?? Back in the day of high hide prices and hundreds of coons being harvested to a dog over its lifetime what affect did it have on those dogs?
How many of you owned your once in a lifetime during those times?
Was accuracy an issue within those hounds? [/QUOTE]

Posted by Ron Ashbaugh on 08-02-2019 05:13 AM:

Ok. Let's say for argument sake I buy in 100% to your theory. Since there is no way to test it and no "control" group since all dogs are different, we will have to go simply on your direct observations and experiences.

Pre having coon shot out, how generally speaking, how would a hunter know when a dog "needs one". What do you observe in the dogs behaviour that lets you know it's time to enact your conservationslist tactics.

Following a coon, what improvements, generally speaking do you observe. Do you find the dog hunts harder? Tracks faster, gets treed quicker, more accurately, and trees harder (measured by barks per minute) than pre coon?

How long does this coon anger last?..generally of course as all dogs are different.

Your list of dogs is impressive on your signature, so you must be doing something right. Don't be offended if someone wants to learn from your experiences.

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Posted by yadkintar on 08-02-2019 12:56 PM:

It’s not just a reward for the dog it’s also a reward for me ! Most of us old doggies that hide hunted like to take coon occasionally. Its you telling your dog you struggled on that bad track you pushed it till you treed it and I respect your determination you got it bud ........... pyyyyyyow here it comes woooweee get him son.

Makes an ole man feel like a kid every time.

Tar

Posted by Richard Lambert on 08-02-2019 01:09 PM:

Mr Ashbaugh, as you said, "every dog is different". What works for one doesn't work for another. And what works in one area won't work in another. Also, the age/experience of the dog makes a big difference. There are a lot of different "good" ways to train a coondog but no one "best" way. Each handler/trainer is different also. Some have a lot more patience than others and some are willing to go a lot slower than others.
You can't "learn" from someone else's experiences. You have to "learn" from your own. And you have to be willing to try new ideas in order to learn new techniques.

Posted by Ron Ashbaugh on 08-02-2019 01:35 PM:

I guess I need to focus my efforts on dogs that can still have the desire to hunt without illegally shooting coon out of season. Unlike Tar, I don't enjoy it and to me its not worth the risk of losing my hunting liscense or peace of mind to inspire a dog.

Hopefully those dogs can find a good owner who buys into the mantra, "just a few more coons"....:-)

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Posted by yadkintar on 08-02-2019 01:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Ron Ashbaugh
I guess I need to focus my efforts on dogs that can still have the desire to hunt without illegally shooting coon out of season. Unlike Tar, I don't enjoy it and to me its not worth the risk of losing my hunting liscense or peace of mind to inspire a dog.

Hopefully those dogs can find a good owner who buys into the mantra, "just a few more coons"....:-)

Do you deer hunt ? Do you let that 37 point buck just walk by ? It’s part of the hunt ! Here in Oklahoma we got year around season now but I don’t put out one just once in a while. If you don’t take some Mother Nature will take a bunch of them. Catfish limit is 13” - 15 per person per day I take my limit every day.

Tar

Posted by pamjohnson on 08-02-2019 01:48 PM:

Well said Richard

Posted by Ron Ashbaugh on 08-02-2019 01:54 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Do you deer hunt ? Do you let that 37 point buck just walk by ? It’s part of the hunt ! Here in Oklahoma we got year around season now but I don’t put out one just once in a while. If you don’t take some Mother Nature will take a bunch of them. Catfish limit is 13” - 15 per person per day I take my limit every day.

Tar

I do deer hunt, but I don't care much for killing deer anymore either. If your season is year round, then heck yes go for it, I can't see it hurting....ours is not and for me it's not worth it.

With our laws what your doing would be like shooting the buck at night with a light and a .22....just another poacher

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 08-02-2019 02:18 PM:

As I said,:
Different dogs...different methods
Different trainers...different methods
Different areas with different laws..different methods

But don't try to tell someone else that "your" method is "better" than their's or that their method is wrong. It may be wrong for you, with your dog, in your area but not for them.

Posted by gpent24 on 08-02-2019 04:05 PM:

i have 2 13 month old plott pups that are both treeing their own coon. We shoot every one they tree out to them until they are treeing coons on a regular basis. I have my two year old that i have not knocked a coon out to since january. If you don't think that putting game in a dogs mouth helps them create drive then you need to come watch my lab on retrieving a bumper and then the difference when he is getting ducks in his mouth. It's night and day to the urgency the dogs have to get their task done when their is game at the end of it. I do think something about putting game in dogs mouths builds drive. And yes all dogs are different. Some might not take many at all. Some might take alot to build it up. But as long as those pups are putting me under them I'm gonna put them out to them.

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Posted by Redneck Mafia on 08-02-2019 04:35 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
As I said,:
Different dogs...different methods
Different trainers...different methods
Different areas with different laws..different methods

But don't try to tell someone else that "your" method is "better" than their's or that their method is wrong. It may be wrong for you, with your dog, in your area but not for them.

X2 thank you Richard. I feel like we were all being bashed by on an anti forum instead of a coonhounds forums for people to discuss ciinHUNTING.

Posted by Ron Ashbaugh on 08-02-2019 04:40 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
But don't try to tell someone else that "your" method is "better" than their's or that their method is wrong. It may be wrong for you, with your dog, in your area but not for them.

Please quote and paste the part where I said my method was better other than it being illegal in our state.

If someone makes a claim that something works I guess I don't find it all that wrong to ask for some empirical evidence or at the very least some direct experience observations that show me that the method that are promoting leads to better results than the other method.

If they cannot do this, I have to conclude that they think it helps, not that that know it helps. Simple as that.

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Posted by TylerOSU on 08-02-2019 04:51 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Ron Ashbaugh
I do deer hunt, but I don't care much for killing deer anymore either. If your season is year round, then heck yes go for it, I can't see it hurting....ours is not and for me it's not worth it.

With our laws what your doing would be like shooting the buck at night with a light and a .22....just another poacher

So it appears your reasoning comes down to the law not the training of a dog. That's fine and I understand completely, BUT that wasn't the point you were trying to push over on this post. Your reasoning was because dogs didn't "need" coons not because you didn't want to get caught shooting them.

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Posted by Ron Ashbaugh on 08-02-2019 04:56 PM:

I don't think they need them, but I am open and willing to listen to the hard evidence or the example of the dogs people have had experience with where the dog improved greatly once it was getting fed coon.

I also asked, if an improvement was observed, what did you see? Better hunt, faster on track, quicker or harder tree dogs? What led you to the firm belief that dogs improve significantly with this method?

Boy you guys sure don't like a discussion do you?

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Posted by TylerOSU on 08-02-2019 05:14 PM:

As stated above every dog is different. Some turn into tree monsters when you kill coons to them and they start missing. Others Improve in accuracy from say 5/10 to 8/10. Makes some have more drive, want to tree coons, gives them more hustle. All dogs are different. Coons should be used as reward when more than a pat on the head is needed.

If we didn't like discussion we wouldn't be on here discussing this with you...

Posted by Ron Ashbaugh on 08-02-2019 05:22 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by TylerOSU
As stated above every dog is different. Some turn into tree monsters when you kill coons to them and they start missing. Others Improve in accuracy from say 5/10 to 8/10. Makes some have more drive, want to tree coons, gives them more hustle. All dogs are different. Coons should be used as reward when more than a pat on the head is needed.

If we didn't like discussion we wouldn't be on here discussing this with you...

I can totally accept this answer. Good work Tyler, respect....good hunting, Ron

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 08-02-2019 05:29 PM:

Mr Ashbaugh, please quote and paste where I was referring to you. I was talking about Jen.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 08-02-2019 05:36 PM:

Re: Rewarding a Dog

quote:
Originally posted by Shepherd_

She goes to the vet this week to get checked out. Something has changed in her the last couple weeks and I can't figure out what it is.

Let me know what you guys think.

Did your female come in heat or did you take her to the vet?

Posted by Shepherd_ on 08-02-2019 06:32 PM:

Hasn't came in heat and her appointment is tomorrow at 10:30.

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Posted by Redneck Mafia on 08-02-2019 07:07 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Shepherd_
Hasn't came in heat and her appointment is tomorrow at 10:30.

Good luck. There is so much out there from various parasites, tick born vectors to off hormone levels.
You know your dog and when something isn't right. Hopefully it is diagnosed with something simple with a simple solution.
I've seen them fall apart with things as easy to cure as tapeworms or seasonal allergies.
As of late we've had friends dogs that have went from good to bad one was bought in from the south and had heart worms the other had a rare parasitic infection that took a trip to the university to finally get a correct diagnosis though the fix was simple when finally diagnosed correctly.
Everyone these days are quick to blame thyriod levels but few look for underlying factors that have caused low readings.

Posted by yadkintar on 08-02-2019 07:52 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
Good luck. There is so much out there from various parasites, tick born vectors to off hormone levels.
You know your dog and when something isn't right. Hopefully it is diagnosed with something simple with a simple solution.
I've seen them fall apart with things as easy to cure as tapeworms or seasonal allergies.
As of late we've had friends dogs that have went from good to bad one was bought in from the south and had heart worms the other had a rare parasitic infection that took a trip to the university to finally get a correct diagnosis though the fix was simple when finally diagnosed correctly.
Everyone these days are quick to blame thyriod levels but few look for underlying factors that have caused low readings.

That parisite your talking about can be cured with 5cc a day for 6 days of safe guard liquid goat wormer it’s not the wormer that does it the medication that’s in it is what works. I just had this new female go through it it’s like they have parvo they won’t eat and pure diarrhea with blood in it. They will dehydrate and die if not treated my old vet that I go to church with told me. And it works.

Tar

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 08-02-2019 08:11 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
That parisite your talking about can be cured with 5cc a day for 6 days of safe guard liquid goat wormer it’s not the wormer that does it the medication that’s in it is what works. I just had this new female go through it it’s like they have parvo they won’t eat and pure diarrhea with blood in it. They will dehydrate and die if not treated my old vet that I go to church with told me. And it works.

Tar

No this one is a friend of ours in Kansas part of it's lifecycle involves a snail. I would have to look up the name. I had heard of it but never have heard of a dog getting it.

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