UKC Forums - Tight track hounds

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-- Tight track hounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928520409)

Posted by Sawyer Hortin on 07-26-2019 03:54 AM:

Don't believe I said between a dog's ears, I meant brains of all involved.

Posted by Ghost14 on 07-26-2019 04:45 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by novicane65
Pkc is what the kennel club is that you can run what you brung style hunts. And not many coonhounds can trail 15 hour old coon tracks. You're logic is apples to potatoes. Still food, still good for you but definitely not the same. If you compared bondage to coyote maybe. And it has to do with how much scent the critter leaves behind. I'd say the avg hound can smell a coon track under ideal conditions 2 or 3 hours at best. But switch that coon with a bear and there's 10 times more scent to start with.

I get what you're saying on track mouth. And you can change how much a dog opens. The dog I'm referring to is prime example of it. She was born a still mouth dog. If I was able to hunt her for a month at a time, she'd open on track more like she did as a young dog. The guy that owns her prefers a still mouth dog. And there's the flip side of things too. Where you have guys that want their dogs to never stop barking. So mouth has little to do with how a dog can smell or move a track hot or cold.

My point was that mouth has nothing to do with trailing ability. And no, not many hounds will trail a 2 or 3 hour old coon or bear track. It’s not apples to oranges. I test dogs pretty regularly as they are maturing and you’d be surprised how few dogs can trail a 2-3 hour old bear track. I hunt coon, bear, and hogs with the same dogs never saw an ounce of difference in the game of choice just the dogs ability. Cold tracks aren’t run at 10 miles an hour if you are hunting a dog like you say you like, you aren’t cold trailing anything. True good cold trailing dogs are few and far between. The same dogs that were good cold trailing bear were also treeing coons from the night before with the same cold trailing style in the daylight. I’ll add that every one of those ran a jumped track heads up and could run 10 yards off the track on the downwind side and flat out leave a pack that wanted to track straddle in the dust. Again, those are rare, rare, rare.
Do like Dan suggested and turn a coon out a county over and bring ol barn burner back in 2 hours and learn for yourself. Do it at noon so that he don’t blow in there and tree another coon and fool you into thinking he cold trailed the first one. These bear hunters do it all the time on old bear tracks, and deer tracks or anything else that scuffed up a bank leaving the road. Dogs blow through the country having butthole races and eventually fall off on an ambushed pop up bear and tell all about the cold trailing that their dogs did. Some of us know the difference but most don’t. I’ve stood in a high gap and listened to dogs “cold trail” a deer right past me more than once and run into them boys when I come out a few hours later. They always “cold trailed” a bear through a gap and were still after him!!!!
It’s fine if you want that style of dog. Makes no difference to me. But I’ve seen dogs trail and catch game that entire packs of dogs couldn’t even smell. And do it over their lifespan. They were elite. If you say yours runs around at 10+ miles an hour and is cold trailing and catching 2-3 coons in 30 mins. that other dogs can’t smell I’m not sure we can ever agree on much.
Never seen 3 coons treed in 30 mins with any cold trailing involved. Our definitions of cold tracks are vastly different I guess.
It’s a useless argument anyway, everyone that expects a dog to cold trail knows that every day is different. Climate changes by the minute and an hour old today may seem like 5 hours tomorrow. There are a hundred different theories on what effects it and I don’t have an answer. I just know what I see and what you see are very different, but mine don’t have any titles in front of their names just ripped up ears and scars from head to toe. And two missing a leg.

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Posted by DL NH on 07-26-2019 11:52 AM:

Ghost....

.....truth tellers are often not popular! My guess is you and I could be on the same page about a lot of things concerning hounds. Perhaps we'll meet up one day. I always enjoy conversing and learning from knowledgeable and experienced houndsmen. Don't know exactly where you hunt but if the country you hunt in is anything like the Deals Gap area of East TN and Western NC you're a tough son of a gun! That country looks to be tough on man and beast! I've got mountains just as big but most of the country I hunt in is less severe than that. Getting to old to tangle with a lot of what I once did!

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 07-26-2019 01:03 PM:

Drive down the road in your car at 10 mph and ask yourself if a dog is "hunting" a track or just running through the woods at 10 mph hoping to come across one.

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 07-26-2019 06:59 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Drive down the road in your car at 10 mph and ask yourself if a dog is "hunting" a track or just running through the woods at 10 mph hoping to come across one.

Lots of them hunt from the time they are turned loose in the double digits not just blowing through sections but hunting and can run a track not just ambush.

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Posted by Ghost14 on 07-26-2019 08:04 PM:

Re: Ghost....

quote:
Originally posted by DL NH
.....truth tellers are often not popular! My guess is you and I could be on the same page about a lot of things concerning hounds. Perhaps we'll meet up one day. I always enjoy conversing and learning from knowledgeable and experienced houndsmen. Don't know exactly where you hunt but if the country you hunt in is anything like the Deals Gap area of East TN and Western NC you're a tough son of a gun! That country looks to be tough on man and beast! I've got mountains just as big but most of the country I hunt in is less severe than that. Getting to old to tangle with a lot of what I once did!

I have no doubt that we would enjoy that Mr. Dan. I can also tell that we may not agree on everything but can respectfully share our views and learn from each other. I’ve learned to never say never about a dog.
I guess what I don’t understand is why men are so blinded. Competition coon hunting is not designed for cold trailing dogs to succeed. Maybe under rare circumstances that type of dog can win a cast, but the majority of times they will get waxed by a dog that flies around treeing warmer tracks that the dog knows it can handle. Nothing wrong with either as long as we are being honest about what is going on instead of creating a false narrative.

__________________
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bred dogs.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 07-26-2019 11:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
Lots of them hunt from the time they are turned loose in the double digits not just blowing through sections but hunting and can run a track not just ambush.

Oh my goodness.... Really, "lots of them"? Do you honestly call running through the woods at 10-15 mph "hunting"?

Posted by yadkintar on 07-27-2019 12:19 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Oh my goodness.... Really, "lots of them"? Do you honestly call running through the woods at 10-15 mph "hunting"?

Uuuuuuh oh ! It’s on now lol.

I had two young dogs come out on a road here awhile back I don’t know how fast they was going but I was goin 45 miles an hour trying to catch up to them I finally drove up on them a mile later.

They were not hunting either !

Tar

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 07-27-2019 12:29 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Oh my goodness.... Really, "lots of them"? Do you honestly call running through the woods at 10-15 mph "hunting"?

Yes when they have coon treeing on their mind from the time they are turned loose. I actually call it an athlete!
Do you really call .5 mph a good track dog?

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 07-27-2019 12:34 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Uuuuuuh oh ! It’s on now lol.

I had two young dogs come out on a road here awhile back I don’t know how fast they was going but I was goin 45 miles an hour trying to catch up to them I finally drove up on them a mile later.

They were not hunting either !

Tar

Show dogs??? Some people road them, those just got bored and took themselves lol.

Posted by yadkintar on 07-27-2019 12:49 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
Yes when they have coon treeing on their mind from the time they are turned loose. I actually call it an athlete!
Do you really call .5 mph a good track dog?

That’s what happens when you got all that hickory nuts in their bloodline ! They even dookie on the run ! Don’t ask me how I know lol.

Tar

Posted by novicane65 on 07-27-2019 02:22 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Ghost14
My point was that mouth has nothing to do with trailing ability. And no, not many hounds will trail a 2 or 3 hour old coon or bear track. It’s not apples to oranges. I test dogs pretty regularly as they are maturing and you’d be surprised how few dogs can trail a 2-3 hour old bear track. I hunt coon, bear, and hogs with the same dogs never saw an ounce of difference in the game of choice just the dogs ability. Cold tracks aren’t run at 10 miles an hour if you are hunting a dog like you say you like, you aren’t cold trailing anything. True good cold trailing dogs are few and far between. The same dogs that were good cold trailing bear were also treeing coons from the night before with the same cold trailing style in the daylight. I’ll add that every one of those ran a jumped track heads up and could run 10 yards off the track on the downwind side and flat out leave a pack that wanted to track straddle in the dust. Again, those are rare, rare, rare.
Do like Dan suggested and turn a coon out a county over and bring ol barn burner back in 2 hours and learn for yourself. Do it at noon so that he don’t blow in there and tree another coon and fool you into thinking he cold trailed the first one. These bear hunters do it all the time on old bear tracks, and deer tracks or anything else that scuffed up a bank leaving the road. Dogs blow through the country having butthole races and eventually fall off on an ambushed pop up bear and tell all about the cold trailing that their dogs did. Some of us know the difference but most don’t. I’ve stood in a high gap and listened to dogs “cold trail” a deer right past me more than once and run into them boys when I come out a few hours later. They always “cold trailed” a bear through a gap and were still after him!!!!
It’s fine if you want that style of dog. Makes no difference to me. But I’ve seen dogs trail and catch game that entire packs of dogs couldn’t even smell. And do it over their lifespan. They were elite. If you say yours runs around at 10+ miles an hour and is cold trailing and catching 2-3 coons in 30 mins. that other dogs can’t smell I’m not sure we can ever agree on much.
Never seen 3 coons treed in 30 mins with any cold trailing involved. Our definitions of cold tracks are vastly different I guess.
It’s a useless argument anyway, everyone that expects a dog to cold trail knows that every day is different. Climate changes by the minute and an hour old today may seem like 5 hours tomorrow. There are a hundred different theories on what effects it and I don’t have an answer. I just know what I see and what you see are very different, but mine don’t have any titles in front of their names just ripped up ears and scars from head to toe. And two missing a leg.

Do you honestly think a coon that weighs 15 lbs lays as much scent as a 300 lbs bear? And you're delusional if you think the dog I prefer cold trails. I don't want a cold trailer for coon. I want medium nose, that can run a track drifting it out. I don't like a straddle type track dog. And exactly what I said weather and conditions play a huge role in whether or not a dog can cold trail a 10 hour or however long you're looking for. I've seen it here first hand when a dog can't take a 1 hour old track, and a 15 minute old track. But I can say the dog that couldn't take a 15 minute old track I only hunted 1 night. I'm not as inexperienced as what you may think. I just know what I prefer for coons, and what wins hunts.

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Posted by groworg1 on 07-27-2019 02:39 AM:

if a large coon was worth 30 dollars like in the 70's your dogs would be a disappointment !

Posted by Ghost14 on 07-27-2019 03:22 AM:

Buck, you said
“I'd say the avg hound can smell a coon track under ideal conditions 2 or 3 hours at best. But switch that coon with a bear and there's 10 times more scent to start with.”
“She can tree any type of track runners, layups, and cold feeder tracks”

I’m just responding to what YOU stated. The average hound can’t trail a 2 or 3 hour track of any kind. The better ones will but they are not the average whether it’s coon, mice, bear, badger or any dang critter. If yours will, that’s good, consider yourself lucky cause they aren’t as common as you stated. You said “cold feeder tracks”. Don’t shoot the messenger. If she’s running around at 10+ miles an hour she isn’t cold trailing. She sounds like a nice dog. I’m not sure why that’s so offensive

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Posted by david.e.penley on 07-29-2019 03:17 PM:

Silent dog

I sold that silent hound. I like a tight mouth hound but not a silent one. I will spend alittle more time and find out how the pups are on the track next time.

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