UKC Forums - Tree Count Down Rule

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-- Tree Count Down Rule (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928515747)

Posted by johnny reb on 02-25-2019 05:41 PM:

How about actually misusing dogs for quitting there tracks when there 8-900 yards to the west and a dog 8-900 yards east gets treed and cover that dog.

Posted by K. Singletary on 02-25-2019 07:24 PM:

Hunts are being changed to 90 and 60 minutes and the tree count down which has rewarded independence to a fault is directly responsible. To guide a 2 hour cast you have to have 5000 acres of property with today's dogs or you are going to spend half the night trespassing. I know it's a lot to ask coon hunters to think pass the end of their leash, but we need to or our casts will soon be one drop and done, 1st one to tree a coon wins.

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-25-2019 07:33 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by K. Singletary
....... it's a lot to ask coon hunters to think past the end of their leash.......

Oh my goodness, I like that. How many coonhunters want to change the rules just to fit the dog on the end of their leash.

Posted by berger on 02-25-2019 09:45 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by K. Singletary
Hunts are being changed to 90 and 60 minutes and the tree count down which has rewarded independence to a fault is directly responsible. To guide a 2 hour cast you have to have 5000 acres of property with today's dogs or you are going to spend half the night trespassing. I know it's a lot to ask coon hunters to think pass the end of their leash, but we need to or our casts will soon be one drop and done, 1st one to tree a coon wins.

Kenny I do wish folks would look past what they have on the end of the leash. The fact is 30yrs ago there were tree count downs and there was just as many loner independent dogs as there is today. 25yrs ago you could go in a section and hunt 2hrs. with dogs split every where and still have plenty of land left. Today that same section is still the same but it isn't even big enough to hold a 1hr hunt. Tree count down does not punish dogs for treeing first or second or third it only punish's those dogs that leave a track 1/4mile away to go cover a dog treed. That is a fact. If all dogs are running the same track they will all be treed within 2 minutes if not they deserve 25. The 1hr hunts with a 1 minute strike rule is the direct reason the woods aren't big enough anymore. This is the first year UKC is having 1hr hunts if the breed Assoc. don't correct the problem where it lay's this year, in 3yrs. you won't have large enough tracts to even handle a 1hr hunt.

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Posted by Kenneth Tavares on 02-27-2019 04:50 AM:

I still say mine is first and first! So, I don’t care if you get 75 for second tree at 4:59... you’re beat! 😎

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Tone it down guys, or they will delete another good topic...

Posted by JiM on 02-27-2019 10:32 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by K. Singletary
Hunts are being changed to 90 and 60 minutes and the tree count down which has rewarded independence to a fault is directly responsible. To guide a 2 hour cast you have to have 5000 acres of property with today's dogs or you are going to spend half the night trespassing. I know it's a lot to ask coon hunters to think pass the end of their leash, but we need to or our casts will soon be one drop and done, 1st one to tree a coon wins.

5000 acres? Are you even remotely serious with that comment?
The vast majority of 2 hour casts in this area are dropped in 50 acres or less and have no problems. I'd guess most casts nationwide are dropped in 100 acres or less. 5000? If this sport required that kind of hunting it would have become extinct decades ago. Try again.

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Posted by novicane65 on 02-27-2019 12:59 PM:

Jim I'd say that around here you're going to need somewhere around 800 possibly more depending on coon population and if they're moving. I hunt on state ground most nights that's 5000 acres. You don't need that much anywhere to tree a coon.

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-27-2019 01:34 PM:

Jim, you had better have 100 to 500 around here unless you are hunting buckets. Anything less than 300 and you are going to end up crossing a road or in someone's back yard.

Posted by yadkintar on 02-27-2019 02:08 PM:

We been hunting with the tree countdown for years it's nothing new ! You throw in no leash lock it takes away one certain style of dog from winning the dog that trees the most coon first will usually win I have hunted under those rules and I like them. On the no leash lock I understand a lot of areas have different hunting that they don't like to recast I never hunted that way so I can't understand cutting into a 5 acre patch. Let the no leash lock be a club option by hand vote on that night.

I am current, hip, and groovy!!

Tar

Posted by pamjohnson on 02-27-2019 02:52 PM:

5000 acres might be a stretch but I do see a problem these days with the independent hard going dogs and property shrinking. Yes it's only getting worse and some thought may need put into this as we keep making things worse with the use of tracking systems, count downs, no leash lock. How far can we push till shove takes over? From what I see the only way we have improved this being a possible issue is cut our hunt time down. Seems like a backwards fix.
Personally when I go hunting myself I don't care on who or where the dogs go but I don't think as a guide in a hunt that attitude will fly very well. So do we blame the guide or just accept our consequences for our actions.

Posted by yadkintar on 02-27-2019 02:58 PM:

Pam other $$$ kc's been using those rules for years all over the country no problems. If you don't like change just say it those rules work and that's the ones the young folks want if you don't give them what they want they won't show up that being said I liked the 80's format but I ain't paying the bills the young folks are.

Tar

Posted by K. Singletary on 02-27-2019 03:04 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
5000 acres? Are you even remotely serious with that comment?
The vast majority of 2 hour casts in this area are dropped in 50 acres or less and have no problems. I'd guess most casts nationwide are dropped in 100 acres or less. 5000? If this sport required that kind of hunting it would have become extinct decades ago. Try again.

5000 might have been an exaggeration. I've just become very frustrated in what I've seen dogs become over the last 10 years or so.

The southeast is mostly timber company leases, with mostly pines with branches running through them. My current club is 3600 acres split by a road which puts about 1600 acres on 1 side and 2000 on the other. I'd guess there is about 2 miles worth of branch and hardwood on the 2000 acre side and it's a challenge to get 2 hours out of that. When dogs refuse to tree 2nd and some run 1/2 mile before attempting to look for a coon, a few recasts and you have used up that 2 miles pretty quick. If you have one knuckled headed dog that decides he's going to get alone by leaving the hardwoods and cutting through the pines, chances are he will be off my property before he trees.

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Posted by K. Singletary on 02-27-2019 03:11 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Pam other $$$ kc's been using those rules for years all over the country no problems. If you don't like change just say it those rules work and that's the ones the young folks want if you don't give them what they want they won't show up that being said I liked the 80's format but I ain't paying the bills the young folks are.

Tar

How can you say there are no problems when they just changed their World Hunt and Super Stakes casts from 2 hours to 90 minutes?????

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Posted by yadkintar on 02-27-2019 03:36 PM:

What's the problem with that people are still hunting in them ain't they ? Ukc went to 1hr double headers don't see no problems on here everybody I talked to likes them. If I am winning 30 minutes suits me lol.

Tar

Posted by berger on 02-27-2019 03:39 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by K. Singletary
How can you say there are no problems when they just changed their World Hunt and Super Stakes casts from 2 hours to 90 minutes?????

Kenny they have had count downs for years. That was never the problem. The 1 minute strike rule has shrunk hunting territory by hundreds and thousands of yards.

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Posted by K. Singletary on 02-27-2019 04:09 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by berger
Kenny they have had count downs for years. That was never the problem. The 1 minute strike rule has shrunk hunting territory by hundreds and thousands of yards.

Hunted in a RQE week before last. Cut 4 dogs loose, not a single dog barked within the minute, dogs went 4 different directions and we walked to 3 split trees before calling timeout to catch the 4th dog because he had gone across a field and someone had him caught at their house. A change to the strike rule would not have made those dogs tree together.

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Posted by berger on 02-27-2019 04:23 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by K. Singletary
Hunted in a RQE week before last. Cut 4 dogs loose, not a single dog barked within the minute, dogs went 4 different directions and we walked to 3 split trees before calling timeout to catch the 4th dog because he had gone across a field and someone had him caught at their house. A change to the strike rule would not have made those dogs tree together.

There has been count downs for over 25yrs there has been dogs splitting going different directions for over 25yrs. There has been no change in that. The change has been 1minute rule and 1hr hunts that have shrunk the hunting area.

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Posted by K. Singletary on 02-27-2019 04:43 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by berger
There has been count downs for over 25yrs there has been dogs splitting going different directions for over 25yrs. There has been no change in that. The change has been 1minute rule and 1hr hunts that have shrunk the hunting area.

25 years ago, I could hunt an entire years worth of UKC hunts and only see a handful of split trees, now I can hunt a years worth and only see a handful with 4 dogs on the same tree. I'm sorry, but you hunted with different dogs than I did if you think dogs were as independent as they are now 25 years ago, it's not even the same game anymore.

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Posted by pamjohnson on 02-27-2019 06:20 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Pam other $$$ kc's been using those rules for years all over the country no problems. If you don't like change just say it those rules work and that's the ones the young folks want if you don't give them what they want they won't show up that being said I liked the 80's format but I ain't paying the bills the young folks are.

Tar

tar, poor ol tar I embrace change. I wouldn't mind more rule changes. I even like these new style dogs. I just don't have blinders on. We will bring problems on our selves and our dogs is all I'm saying.

Posted by yadkintar on 02-27-2019 06:47 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
tar, poor ol tar I embrace change. I wouldn't mind more rule changes. I even like these new style dogs. I just don't have blinders on. We will bring problems on our selves and our dogs is all I'm saying.

You got that right poor tar lol ! If they ever start charging us to get on here I will be out I am broke !! To poor to buy a dog and to dumb to train one lol.

Tar

Posted by novicane65 on 02-28-2019 01:21 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by K. Singletary
How can you say there are no problems when they just changed their World Hunt and Super Stakes casts from 2 hours to 90 minutes?????

Pkc changed them from 2 hour hunts to 90 min hunts for 1 reason. Because the guides at the big hunts didn't want to be out until 5 or 6 am all week. As far as I've heard it had nothing to do with the loss of hunting territory. They try to accommodate the guides and satellite clubs.

Posted by Kenneth Tavares on 02-28-2019 03:32 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by berger
The 1 minute strike rule has shrunk hunting territory by hundreds and thousands of yards.

Please explain this to me.

Posted by harleydan1956 on 02-28-2019 04:13 AM:

IMO. If a dog runs in and backs without thoroughly checking to make sure it is there, is nothing but a me too dog. That is the reason I don't hunt other registries. And might be the reason you see many dogs advertised as 60%-70% accurate. Mine ain't perfect, but they know when they've done wrong.

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Posted by Mike Mckinney on 02-28-2019 04:43 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Kenneth Tavares
Please explain this to me.

KT think he’s saying by dogs blowing through woods getting deep with a minute that allows it other than that I don’t know.

Posted by berger on 02-28-2019 05:44 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Kenneth Tavares
Please explain this to me.

KT I hunt babblers, silent dogs, good strike dogs. If I take 2 dogs that don't bark when cut loose most every time they can be treed within 3 to 500yds while pleasure hunting they will split up quicker from each other and tree a lot closer. Now take 1 of them and throw in a barker in the same woods they go 7 to 900yds before they split up and get treed. Where the coon are thinner and chance of scoring on 1 coon per dog in a 1hr hunt. The easiest way to get a cast win is it get that dog barking as it is unsnapped take the rest of the dogs withem till one strikes at about 7 to 900yds then shut her down to barking here and there withem on track then shut up and split the heck out get deep get treed and make that cast finish out the hunt walking to her plus em up 1st and 1st cast winner hunt is over. This also works in thicker coon they just make dogs go deeper to start with before they split up and start hunting and that barkers slips out and goes deep and you got a winner. We have had split treeing loners up here for years you could hunt sections of timber for 2hrs and never have them blowout of the section. Now those same sections aren't big enough for a 1hr hunt. What changed??? 1 minute rule and 1hr hunts. For the loners and split tree'ers have always been here. I notice the difference hunting the same woods dogs that don't babble or dogs that do. Take those babblers by themselves and they never end up that deep for they got nothing to keep barking to keep the race going....

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