UKC Forums - New rule concerning Nite Champion next year

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- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- New rule concerning Nite Champion next year (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928512902)

Posted by Okie Hunter on 12-15-2018 09:39 PM:

Okay, I never said I couldn't beat the grand nites with my nite champion. The thing I was griping about was I have to do it eight times instead of the five times we have now and that's if I get lucky enough to not have a dead cast somewhere along the way which, in Oklahoma, a dead cast happens quite often.

Without a state or national race and the only thing I am hunting for is a grand nite degree, I believe I will hunt in the other KC's after I complete the UKC Nite Champion degree. For me, I cant see the advantage of running up and down the road trying to get eight plus point cast wins with a Nite Champion dog unless there's something else to motivate me.

As a side note, the female I just made a Grand Nite has two littermates that have won over $100,000 each in the other KC's and you know what.... neither one of them are Grand Nites in UKC. Not because they couldn't win in UKC, but because they choose not to enter UKC events. If UKC figures out how to get the average everyday hunter along with the handlers that normally hunt in the other KC's to enter their events, then they will have something they can hang their hat on.

__________________
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Plus Point English
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Home of:
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UKC DUAL GR CH TREE ROCKN NELLY (DUAL GR CH PKC GOLD CH MAIN STREET ROY X GR NITE CH PKC CH INDIAN RIDGE CINDY) Littermate sister to 2013 UKC WORLD CH GR NITE CH MAIN STREET JOHN THE BAPTIST

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CH GR NITE CH WELLS' LITTLE PATCH (High Scoring English Female 1995 UKC World Hunt) Direct Daughter of GR NITE CH PKC GOLD CH DARON'S BLUE REB (LUMIS) x GR NITE CH PKC GOLD CH ACHA WORLD CH BUFFALO CREEK PATCH

GR NITE CH PKC CH CLEAR CREEK MISSY II (Sister to Dual Grand Clear Creek Cadillac Jack and mother of ACHA World Champion PKC Silver CH Raef's Dollar Bill)

Posted by gerald mullis on 12-16-2018 10:34 PM:

I think that UKC is on the right track because money spent and money earned is better than any other .

Posted by sox12 on 12-16-2018 11:32 PM:

The changes UKC has January 1st on registered or Nt Ch I think it will be a lot easier for one reason you don't have to have a 1st place win just 5 cast wins and no 100 points,and the Nt Ch just win your cast 8 times don't need to win the nite champion part of the hunt,i cant see where it is harder to get the new degree,the only difference I can see is the performance points,where it doesn't matter if your registered or Nt Ch they are split and not separate anymore.

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GRNTCH.GRCh.PR Steffes' Whizz Bang[GRNTCH Big Walnut BooneXGRNTCH Raged Ridge Toadie]
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Posted by georgef072007 on 12-17-2018 05:35 PM:

Not picking on you Richard

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Mr River, are you saying that you think an open registered dog should be able to beat a Gr Nt Ch?

You are comparing apple's to oranges. You don't have to tree a coon to win a cast in that other registry, although it helps. There is a lot of luck and handling involved in winning in that registry, especially in 1 hr casts. I have won casts with a registered dog when hunting against titled dogs also but not because I had a better dog.

I feel like the best dog should win the cast regardless of the title he has on paper. I hunted the zones in 2017 with a registered dog against 3 GRNTCH dogs both nights and won the cast both nights because he was the only dog to tree a coon and have plus points. If and when the time comes for me to come back to a hunt I will be hunting a registered dog at the RQE's and on to the zones as well and it won't bother me a bit. I have hunted against silver and gold champions in the other registry, won a few and lost a few. At the end of the night they are all just dogs.

__________________
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'PR' OUTBACK TRASHY LULU

CH GRNTCH 'PR' WRECK IT RALPH (Dead Cat X Outback Trashy LuLu) 2017 UKC World Finalist. 2018 UKC World Hunt Qualified.

CH GRNTCH 'PR' CATS TRASHY TOMCAT (Dead Cat X Outback Trashy LuLu) 2016 , 2017 & 2018 UKC World hunt qualified

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past home of

GRNTCH 'PR' DEAD CAT

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 12-17-2018 06:04 PM:

The new Format was set up to help the small clubs. Are y'all against the small clubs? Everyone is complaining that it will take more wins and that Gr Nts will be hunting against Nt Ch's. Y'all are just looking at how it will effect yourself. Having to enter more hunts and hunt against more dogs is a good thing for the small clubs.

Posted by LSO1103 on 12-17-2018 06:27 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by sox12
The changes UKC has January 1st on registered or Nt Ch I think it will be a lot easier for one reason you don't have to have a 1st place win just 5 cast wins and no 100 points,and the Nt Ch just win your cast 8 times don't need to win the nite champion part of the hunt,i cant see where it is harder to get the new degree,the only difference I can see is the performance points,where it doesn't matter if your registered or Nt Ch they are split and not separate anymore.

I agree. I think the new rules will make it alot easier to title a dog. The reason I think this is because just like in PKC, you don't have to worry about being out-guided. All you gotta do is win your cast. That has to be easier than having to have 1st place wins. The only thing harder about it is, it'll cost you more money. Under the current rules, a dog could make grand nite in 8 hunts, starting Jan 1st it will take a minimum of 13. I'm not complaining about the new rules, I actually agree with them but with that being said, I'm glad I was able to finish mine to grand nite under the old rules.

Posted by nitehunter2004 on 12-17-2018 06:44 PM:

UKC should make a ton of money under this new format with less work, now that’s a good deal!

Posted by yadkintar on 12-17-2018 06:48 PM:

Allens going to sell his snowmobile and put the proceeds in the world hunt package.

Came from a hush hush top secret source.

Tar

Posted by sleepy head on 12-17-2018 06:52 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by LSO1103
I agree. I think the new rules will make it alot easier to title a dog. The reason I think this is because just like in PKC, you don't have to worry about being out-guided. All you gotta do is win your cast. That has to be easier than having to have 1st place wins. The only thing harder about it is, it'll cost you more money. Under the current rules, a dog could make grand nite in 8 hunts, starting Jan 1st it will take a minimum of 13. I'm not complaining about the new rules, I actually agree with them but with that being said, I'm glad I was able to finish mine to grand nite under the old rules.

I don't understand how it can be both easier and cost more at the same time

Posted by LSO1103 on 12-17-2018 06:59 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by sleepy head
I don't understand how it can be both easier and cost more at the same time

Just because something costs more doesn't mean it's harder to accomplish. It will be easier to accomplish because all you have to do is win your cast. You won't have to worry about having to have that 1st place win anymore. Every cast win will count as a win toward a degree. It will however cost you more money because it will require a minimum of 13 hunts to grand a dog instead of 8.

Posted by georgef072007 on 12-17-2018 07:01 PM:

I'm not against helping the small clubs Richard, the problem is that they aren't smart enough to help themselves and not have so many hunts in the area's where there is a club in every county for a hundred miles or more. From my house, and without driving more than 70 miles in any direction I can literally hunt 70 hunts a year in UKC alone. If those 10 clubs go back to 5 hunts a year and spread the dates out so that more of their hunts are earlier in the spring and later in the fall or winter more people would attend their hunts because they would have fewer choices about which hunts to go to on a weekend. Less supply equals greater demand for the products that are available, so if you want more hunters to attend your hunts you need to limit their choices by not having as many. Just look at it this way, if you go to a restaurant with a buffet you see the staff throwing food out that has sat there too long but if you go to a hot dog stand they are constantly cooking fresh dogs to keep up. The smaller clubs in the high density area's need to get together and shut down the buffet line so they can stay in business and get away from all these 2 or 3 dog hunts.

Posted by sleepy head on 12-17-2018 07:06 PM:

If winning 13 cast is easier than winning 6 hunts and 2 other cast wins plus the cast wins u don't win the hunt. I'd think it would be cheaper

Posted by LSO1103 on 12-17-2018 07:13 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by sleepy head
If winning 13 cast is easier than winning 6 hunts and 2 other cast wins plus the cast wins u don't win the hunt. I'd think it would be cheaper

It very well could end up being cheaper. I was just talking about the minimum number of hunts it requires under the old rules vs the new rules.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 12-17-2018 07:25 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by nitehunter2004
UKC should make a ton of money under this new format with less work, now that’s a good deal!

If UKC makes more money doesn't that mean that the small clubs make more money. And for those that say it will cost them more money, won't that money be going to the small clubs?

Posted by sox12 on 12-17-2018 07:38 PM:

Hope it does work out that the small clubs draw more entries,and make extra money

Posted by nitehunter2004 on 12-17-2018 07:56 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
If UKC makes more money doesn't that mean that the small clubs make more money. And for those that say it will cost them more money, won't that money be going to the small clubs?

I said it was a good Deal! Bottom line is this The small clubs is the Back Bone of UKC Coon Hound department, maybe they should be recognized, maybe have a small club of the month with a full page plug in the Blood Line mag? Let Hunt Directors Hunt? Update the Master Hound/Bench Show list? Get rid of the leash lock problem so clubs will be more in-favor of having a 1 hour double header hunts?
Instead of questioning everyone else, what would you change? What ideas do you have? Or you just go-along to get-along?

Posted by Richard Lambert on 12-17-2018 08:37 PM:

I myself like the changes that UKC has come up with.

Posted by 79cooner on 12-17-2018 09:22 PM:

Rule changes

Are you guys saying that we now have to have, 8 cast win's for night champion and 8 more for Gran night? I thought it was 5 for night champion.

Posted by LSO1103 on 12-17-2018 10:05 PM:

Re: Rule changes

quote:
Originally posted by 79cooner
Are you guys saying that we now have to have, 8 cast win's for night champion and 8 more for Gran night? I thought it was 5 for night champion.

You are correct. 5 for Nitech then 8 more for GrNitech.

Posted by Clif Owen on 12-18-2018 01:19 AM:

It might make it easier to finish a dog. The dog will still need to win the required number of casts. BUT keep in mind that there is no guarantee that it will be easier. I recall back in the early 80's; a guy near here had a dog that he got a 1st on. He hauled that dog around for over a year with 95 championship points and never did make Nite Ch. And this was when points were given to dogs with plus points who didn't win the cast. On the other hand, I know of at least 2 dogs that were consistent cast winners and had over 300 championship points on just 2nd place wins alone.
Yes, it will increase the number of hunts a dog absolutely HAS to attend but remember...just because he is there doesn't mean he will win. Might catch a bad break or just plain get beat.
What I see it will do is reduce the odds someone will try to pull something to try to get that 1st. We've all heard of it happening. I had the misfortune of serving as MOH at a hunt where some shady stuff was pulled. Guy penciled a score on the way back in and got caught. By not needing to win it all; that should slow down.

Posted by high ridge on 12-18-2018 06:02 AM:

If a fellow can’t take the dog he is hunting and win 13 or 15 cast in less than a 6 month span if hunting the nite hunts regular that dog needs to go in retirement and get something that can win. This comment may sound rude but it’s true. A good dog will finish as easy as it always did you just got to go to a few more. The sorry dog will still be 9 years old trying to get finished.

Them dogs don’t know if they are open registered or GrNt title holders. A good dog is a good dog. I promise you if I show up to enter my open registered dog there is not a titled dog I fear with it. Training with the intent to win is what separates the dogs

__________________
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Posted by gerald mullis on 12-18-2018 12:58 PM:

Cost more ,cost less ,is harder, is easier what matters we all on same playing field . Do not forget about the performance program you win cast in top three you earn $$ .We need more performance dogs if the hunt number go up more people will performance there dogs now the number is declining .

Posted by sleepy head on 12-18-2018 01:08 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by high ridge
If a fellow can’t take the dog he is hunting and win 13 or 15 cast in less than a 6 month span if hunting the nite hunts regular that dog needs to go in retirement and get something that can win. This comment may sound rude but it’s true. A good dog will finish as easy as it always did you just got to go to a few more. The sorry dog will still be 9 years old trying to get finished.

Them dogs don’t know if they are open registered or GrNt title holders. A good dog is a good dog. I promise you if I show up to enter my open registered dog there is not a titled dog I fear with it. Training with the intent to win is what separates the dogs

Your right but if we all stuck to those standards 90% of us would never inter another hunt. Lol

Posted by gerald mullis on 12-18-2018 01:11 PM:

Posted by Richard Lambert on 12-18-2018 03:01 PM:

Mr Ridge, what are the other 3 dogs doing in your casts? If you win 13-15 casts and they each win 13-15 casts, then that is 39-45 casts in 6 months. It sounds like you are figuring that you win all of your casts. Your dog might be able to win that many casts but what about the other 15-50 dogs that you are hunting against? They are going to have a hard time.

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